Posted by 4949:

Posted by DarkKnicks:

Posted by Paladin55:


Agree with you about watching Chandler and Gallinari, however you also want to see how the returning Knicks respond to a new coach and system. I'm very interested in seeing how Nate, Lee, and Crawford fit in. We might be looking at a season of Survivor, MSG.

Agree with you about Randoph and Curry. Hopefully Randolph is gone before the season begins, but I think it may be hard to get value for Curry. What I want to see is how D'Antoni deals with these guys if they don't attempt to fit in and play the kind of ball he wants. I would not want these two getting time at the expense of Chandler/Gallinari/Lee.

First of all, I dont consider Nate nor Lee good enough to lead us to anything nor make a difference. And anyway, we will have to trade them out of here sooner than later since we are supposedly going through that mystic 2010 plan, and give 8-10 million dollars to Lee is not the best way to achieve that plan. So Im not really expecting much of that.

About the Randolph/Curry thing, that issue is what worries me the most. If supposedly we did not trade Randolph because we felt he was a his lowest trade value right now, then, there are 2 posibles scenarios assuming they are going to be our starting froncout.
-They suck (as expected), so their trade value would be even worse, if that is possible. We would have another soap opera with them complaining about people being "unfair" to them. Also we would have wasted some playing and development time for Gallinari while Lee keeps doing the same.
-D'Antoni is a genius and they (surprisingly) play well, which means we win 40 games in an incredible best case scenario, so Gallinari and Lee get even less playing time. If this happens, which is very unlikely, we would have risen their trade value a bit, but lost the chance to get good pick. And anyway... this is not realistic.

I said before that I understand how difficult is to overcome this mess that is Isiah's legacy, but if we dont get rid of Randolph or Curry, our cap situation will keep being terrible, and Gallinari and Lee wont play as much as we probably would like to see. I dont care about Randolph or Curry being at their lowest trade value at this very moment: I dont care what we get for them as long as they are expiring contracts, 2nd rounds or whatever that does not hurt our cap. This is a critical problem for our future, and there is not anything that leads me to believe there is some chance Curry or Zach wont be here next season. thats why I said I can not find acceptable to "do nothing" at this point. Walsh was hired to "do something" regarding our cap situation. If finally something happens I will eat my words at that very moment.

Posted by Paladin55:

As Walsh has already said- this team needs a shot blocker. Even if Randolph and Curry were to respond offensively, there is still no chance that they will play any D. They are about as effective in stopping players from attacking our rim as the Maginot Line was in keeping the Nazi army and tanks from penetrating into France. What big man can we find who will block shots?

One other thing- how do you know that D'Antoni will not make adjustments to his "system" based on the players the Knicks have?

I just don't know how many deals this team can make given the talent we have to trade and contract issues, but there is still time, and maybe Walsh has some ideas he will throw out to D'Antoni when he gets back from China.

You are right, I dont know. Maybe Im being way too much sceptic... but I dont have reasons to think otherwise from his coaching career so far.

Already explained I dont care what we get in return for our "cap killers", as long as we dont give 1st round picks nor worsen our cap. I just want something (well) done regarding it. We are the New York Knicks!

Darkknicks, it's about not' jeopardizing the cap anymore then has already been done. It's about waiting for contracts to run out, or get close to running, so we can possibly buyout some of them at the end of the second year. It's about protecting our cap for the future, so we can be in a position to make pitches for better talent. I mean superstar talent. Layden, Dolan and isiah never figured that out. It's one of the simplest things in the whole world. A kid' can figure that out.

There isn't going to be any blockbuster deals, not for the next two years at least, because if we want a superstar, it's not going to happen with what we have now. We need to open up the cap, to free it. We have already started to try and build with the draft. It's now time to start building with free agents, with available money that we will' have. Go nowhere trades are out of the picture. Duhon, Roberson and the fact that he didn't try to move one of these huge contracts is a clear sign of that. starbury doesn't matter anymore because it's his last year, so it doesn't matter either way, if he stays or goes. Whether it's off the books or not, it helps for when we do' start getting off the books.

Im not asking for a superstart, nor a blockbuster trade. I have said several times that what I want is JUST to solve our cap situation. I dont understand why you (and some others) tell me that its not about jeopardizing the cap anymore, because Im saying just the opposite, so please, stop that!

I said (a million times already in this topics) that its is impossible to solve our cap problem in 4 months, but the fact is that so far, he has not done anything regarding that, and I dont buy the idea that this is about letting our bad contracts expire (unless we are talking about Marbury) not because a kid could figure out that, but because a kid could even be in Walsh position for "doing nothing". So no, its not about letting our contracts expire, unless there is no other possibility to do otherwise.
For the last time, Im not asking Walsh to be a genius and put us under the cap in 1 or 2 years, but to do the best he can to do it sooner than later. And the "do nothing" style is not what can be expected of a supposedly good GM, no matter how you look at it. He is not being paid for just letting our terrible contracts run out. I dont know what is so bad about being demanding with our GM...
Maybe he is totally desperate seaching for expiring contracts everywhere to start doing something about our cap, but like I said again for the 100000th time in this topic, there are no signs of that, and thats all Im critizicing. Its his job to prove what Im saying is wrong or innacurate.

Posted by Bippity10:

the guy has been here 4 months and as of recently was still hiring coaches and front office staff. These moves are as important as signing players. So yes, the guy has had a very busy summer. The players will be next. You just have to give the guy more time than 4 months. There will be no more "best player available" deals. Instead we will patiently build a team that fits D'Antoni's long term vision. Will Walsh be successful? I don't know. The jury is out. But at least the guy has a legitimate plan.

I agree Bippity - and I started a new thread on this because I think this is aa very key point on what the Knicks have been doing. Knicks have a total makeover of management. The team's turn will now start. Pre-season will help determine who can play under D'A and who can't.


[Edited by - markji on 08-25-2008 09:57 AM]

Posted by DarkKnicks:

Maybe he is totally desperate seaching for expiring contracts everywhere to start doing something about our cap, but like I said again for the 100000th time in this topic, there are no signs of that, and thats all Im critizicing. Its his job to prove what Im saying is wrong or innacurate.

I think there are signs, but you have to look at the big picture here. We have time to get things done. The longer we wait the easier it will be to off load bad contracts. Partly due to the number of years being reduced on those contracts. With the numbers being smaller it makes it more palatable to move a guy. I also think that having a better season will make the players more attractive. It shows that they can be part of a winning team or at least a functional team.

There may yet be another move made before the start of the season but if there isn't that won't be the end of our chances to fix this team. We still have the Trade Deadline and next off season. It's about getting this right, not the speed with which it's done.

Posted by DarkKnicks:

Posted by 4949:

Posted by DarkKnicks:

Posted by Paladin55:


Agree with you about watching Chandler and Gallinari, however you also want to see how the returning Knicks respond to a new coach and system. I'm very interested in seeing how Nate, Lee, and Crawford fit in. We might be looking at a season of Survivor, MSG.

Agree with you about Randoph and Curry. Hopefully Randolph is gone before the season begins, but I think it may be hard to get value for Curry. What I want to see is how D'Antoni deals with these guys if they don't attempt to fit in and play the kind of ball he wants. I would not want these two getting time at the expense of Chandler/Gallinari/Lee.

First of all, I dont consider Nate nor Lee good enough to lead us to anything nor make a difference. And anyway, we will have to trade them out of here sooner than later since we are supposedly going through that mystic 2010 plan, and give 8-10 million dollars to Lee is not the best way to achieve that plan. So Im not really expecting much of that.

About the Randolph/Curry thing, that issue is what worries me the most. If supposedly we did not trade Randolph because we felt he was a his lowest trade value right now, then, there are 2 posibles scenarios assuming they are going to be our starting froncout.
-They suck (as expected), so their trade value would be even worse, if that is possible. We would have another soap opera with them complaining about people being "unfair" to them. Also we would have wasted some playing and development time for Gallinari while Lee keeps doing the same.
-D'Antoni is a genius and they (surprisingly) play well, which means we win 40 games in an incredible best case scenario, so Gallinari and Lee get even less playing time. If this happens, which is very unlikely, we would have risen their trade value a bit, but lost the chance to get good pick. And anyway... this is not realistic.

I said before that I understand how difficult is to overcome this mess that is Isiah's legacy, but if we dont get rid of Randolph or Curry, our cap situation will keep being terrible, and Gallinari and Lee wont play as much as we probably would like to see. I dont care about Randolph or Curry being at their lowest trade value at this very moment: I dont care what we get for them as long as they are expiring contracts, 2nd rounds or whatever that does not hurt our cap. This is a critical problem for our future, and there is not anything that leads me to believe there is some chance Curry or Zach wont be here next season. thats why I said I can not find acceptable to "do nothing" at this point. Walsh was hired to "do something" regarding our cap situation. If finally something happens I will eat my words at that very moment.

Posted by Paladin55:

As Walsh has already said- this team needs a shot blocker. Even if Randolph and Curry were to respond offensively, there is still no chance that they will play any D. They are about as effective in stopping players from attacking our rim as the Maginot Line was in keeping the Nazi army and tanks from penetrating into France. What big man can we find who will block shots?

One other thing- how do you know that D'Antoni will not make adjustments to his "system" based on the players the Knicks have?

I just don't know how many deals this team can make given the talent we have to trade and contract issues, but there is still time, and maybe Walsh has some ideas he will throw out to D'Antoni when he gets back from China.

You are right, I dont know. Maybe Im being way too much sceptic... but I dont have reasons to think otherwise from his coaching career so far.

Already explained I dont care what we get in return for our "cap killers", as long as we dont give 1st round picks nor worsen our cap. I just want something (well) done regarding it. We are the New York Knicks!

Darkknicks, it's about not' jeopardizing the cap anymore then has already been done. It's about waiting for contracts to run out, or get close to running, so we can possibly buyout some of them at the end of the second year. It's about protecting our cap for the future, so we can be in a position to make pitches for better talent. I mean superstar talent. Layden, Dolan and isiah never figured that out. It's one of the simplest things in the whole world. A kid' can figure that out.

There isn't going to be any blockbuster deals, not for the next two years at least, because if we want a superstar, it's not going to happen with what we have now. We need to open up the cap, to free it. We have already started to try and build with the draft. It's now time to start building with free agents, with available money that we will' have. Go nowhere trades are out of the picture. Duhon, Roberson and the fact that he didn't try to move one of these huge contracts is a clear sign of that. starbury doesn't matter anymore because it's his last year, so it doesn't matter either way, if he stays or goes. Whether it's off the books or not, it helps for when we do' start getting off the books.

Im not asking for a superstart, nor a blockbuster trade. I have said several times that what I want is JUST to solve our cap situation. I dont understand why you (and some others) tell me that its not about jeopardizing the cap anymore, because Im saying just the opposite, so please, stop that!

I said (a million times already in this topics) that its is impossible to solve our cap problem in 4 months, but the fact is that so far, he has not done anything regarding that, and I dont buy the idea that this is about letting our bad contracts expire (unless we are talking about Marbury) not because a kid could figure out that, but because a kid could even be in Walsh position for "doing nothing". So no, its not about letting our contracts expire, unless there is no other possibility to do otherwise.
For the last time, Im not asking Walsh to be a genius and put us under the cap in 1 or 2 years, but to do the best he can to do it sooner than later. And the "do nothing" style is not what can be expected of a supposedly good GM, no matter how you look at it. He is not being paid for just letting our terrible contracts run out. I dont know what is so bad about being demanding with our GM...
Maybe he is totally desperate seaching for expiring contracts everywhere to start doing something about our cap, but like I said again for the 100000th time in this topic, there are no signs of that, and thats all Im critizicing. Its his job to prove what Im saying is wrong or innacurate.

Well, okay. Sorry if I miss understood you then.

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by BlacKat:

Briggs you say the same thing thread after thread after thread. I can't believe no one has caught on to you yet. lol

Which thread is this trueblue? Ive suggested a few moves and talked a little politics. Same dude different handle.

BlacKat is TrueBlue? I thought TrueBlue was SticksandBones.

Who knows but they are certainly retreads. I guess they wouldnt have liked my 500 posts on why we should take Andrew Bynum. When you haev a strong opinion--you get chastized--but my opinions/suggestions have been 100* better than anyone paid by the Knicks organization in the last 7 years. My guess is we will still be here talking about why we sck for the next 6 years--why did they hire a guy who was to old and was falling into deep failure at Indiana before coming over to run the team---why did they hire a coach that doesnt fit--why did they just hire a GM that has the worst draft history of any GM in the history of the nBA who was kicked out of Orlando and Portland. SOS
They are just backing themselves into a corner with this cap thing as well

when ur done tooting ur own horn, maybe u'll get around to acknowledging some of your more horrible suggestions over the years as well... here's the team you would have put together if you were the Knicks' GM

C - Andrew Bynum
PF - Michael Sweetney
SF - Shareef Abdur Rahim
SG - Darius Miles
PG - Steve Francis

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by martin:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Same putrid team + Chris Duhon and a hurt rookie? Im sure theyll be lining up for tickets with fat Curry and Rabdolph running up and down and letting every last offensive player take free layups

please tell me what you would have done? Trade your assets at their low point.

I wouldve taken Jerryd Bayless at pick 6 and used every asset I had including Lee Nate cash to grab that Pacer or Portland pick to acquire Anthony Randolph. Chris Duhon would NOT be here and Zach Randolp would be gone.

The Trailblazers have reportedly offered to trade Travis Outlaw to the Grizzlies in exchange for a point guard.
Mike Conley is likely off limits, and the Grizzlies are inclined to keep Kyle Lowry for his toughness and defensive ability. The Blazers might be willing to take Javaris Crittenton, but more likely they would beef up the offer to land Conley or Lowry. This also raises doubts about Portland's confidence in Steve Blake, and confirms that they don't view Jerryd Bayless --whose passing has never been his strong suit-- as the point guard of the future.

Does that mean that Bayless is available? Chris Duhon for Bayless and Webster.

The Trailblazers have reportedly offered to trade Travis Outlaw to the Grizzlies in exchange for a point guard.
Mike Conley is likely off limits, and the Grizzlies are inclined to keep Kyle Lowry for his toughness and defensive ability. The Blazers might be willing to take Javaris Crittenton, but more likely they would beef up the offer to land Conley or Lowry. This also raises doubts about Portland's confidence in Steve Blake, and confirms that they don't view Jerryd Bayless --whose passing has never been his strong suit-- as the point guard of the future.

Where did this come from? I found something similar, but it did not include the comments on Blake and Bayless.

Perhaps this is why Walsh and D'Antoni, a former PG, did not pick Bayless (or Gordon, for that matter) as the Knicks PG of the future. It might also indicate that Bayless will end up being an instant offense bench player on Portland, or be used if they go small and use Roy at SF

I can't see the 6'1" Bayless being a full time SG, though, because of the defensive matchup problems it would cause.

Very Interesting, perhaps indicating that Walsh is smarter than we think when it comes to picking people in the draft.

I have no problems with Bayless' talent, but I did watch him play a summer league game against Minnesota where if he passed the ball once, I missed it. I'm pretty sure that a PG like that doesn't fit D'Antoni's system. It may come back to haunt us if he turns out to be a star, but based on what I saw I can understand why Mike would pass on him.

Posted by BRIGGS:

Is anyone actually excited about this upcoming season? I would say 90% of Knick fans will say no.

Of course not, but you have to seperate how you feel about the season from the proper movement by the coaches. A lot of people were excited when Marbs, and Zach and Eddie and Jamal were signed. Where did that excitement get us?

Briggs, do you realize where we are as an organization? For the past 7 years we arguably have been the worst run franchise in sports. We have been a laughingstock. We have made mistake after mistake. It's going to take more than 4 months to rebuild that excitement. Until fans see results they are going to be like you and question and doubt every move, but regardless of our emotional response it's still going to take a while to get the ship righted. Last year between our record and our off the court issues we became the laughingstock of sports. We were a national punchline. None of us will be excited for a while.

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Is anyone actually excited about this upcoming season? I would say 90% of Knick fans will say no.

Of course not, but you have to seperate how you feel about the season from the proper movement by the coaches. A lot of people were excited when Marbs, and Zach and Eddie and Jamal were signed. Where did that excitement get us?

Briggs, do you realize where we are as an organization? For the past 7 years we arguably have been the worst run franchise in sports. We have been a laughingstock. We have made mistake after mistake. It's going to take more than 4 months to rebuild that excitement. Until fans see results they are going to be like you and question and doubt every move, but regardless of our emotional response it's still going to take a while to get the ship righted. Last year between our record and our off the court issues we became the laughingstock of sports. We were a national punchline. None of us will be excited for a while.

I believe you either play to win or tank. I don't even think we have a cohesive plan in terms of who plays where right now--so that is not going to be a winning squad. If it was me I would allow Lee Gallinar and Chandler to play 35 minutes and see what happens--atleast there is some entertainment value and devlopment going on while we hopefully can grab a top 3 pick we have desperately needed. I dont want to be in the middle--being in the middle in the NBA is the worst place unless you have a young core coming up. We really still are in flush mode but it does appear they are trying top win 35 games and pick 10-12

I agree with your philosophy, only I'd word it differently. You play to win or you position yourself to win in the future. That could be done many different ways. You could dump and cut all your vets, play the rookies and use the next 3-4 years building through the draft. Or you can build up the value of your vets, trade them for assets(draft picks, players) and then use the next 3-4 years building through the draft. Either way works for me. I hate the middle as well. I lean towards the second option, because with the first option unless you draft amazingly well, no free agents are going to come to a team of young losers. But want I dont' want to see is a GM come in and start slashing and burning 4 months into his tenure, when his coach has been overseas and he is just finishing up destroying the front office. The front office is just as important as the players and it would be senseless to start making drastic moves before this.

Zach is being shopped. Marbs is being discussed. These guys aren't blind. They know changes need to be made. But until they've been here for a while how do you know what their overall plan is?

Posted by BRIGGS:

Is anyone actually excited about this upcoming season? I would say 90% of Knick fans will say no.

I guess put me in on the 10%. I can't wait to see D'Antoni's system in place in the Garden. I can't wait to see Duhon, Crawford, The Mayor, Gallo and DLee running up and down the court at break neck speed. I can't wait to see Special Nate do his thing with the 2nd unit.