Posted by tkf:

Posted by oohah:

Laughable about Marcus William complaining about wanting to be a future starter I don't think so. I spoke to someone thats cool with the Nets and thats what he told me. If you're not upset about not drafting Marcus Williams instead of Balkman thats' you. You want to have the same attitude about getting Dallinari over a point guard fine. Keep on watching the Knicks pass up point guards and you see how far they go.

How many players do the Knicks have that are tradeable? I will say it again since it seems you missed the boat. Marcus Williams could have either been productive on the Knicks or if that did not work the Knicks could have traded him for a pick. What part of trading Williams for a draft pick don't you understand? So even with like you like saying, "Williams sucking" the Nets were able to pull a draft pick. Now explain how many players you think the Knicks can trade for a draft on this team besides Lee, Chandler, and maybe Jamal? Yet this scrub as you like to say was able to be traded for a draft pick.

That's a problem for me. Especially when we are sitting with players that no one wants. How does that sound to you that scrubs are being traded for draft picks and the Knicks are not able to make real trades? Or better yet a draft pick.

Think about it. Why on earth would it have hurt the Knicks to draft Williams if he would have trade value compared to the players we have now how probably can't even get traded for Matchbox cards and a Happy Meal?

We can play Tom and Jerry mouse games all the day or you can realize that the Knicks would have made a better move by getting Marcus aka "The Scrub From Hell" because at the end of the day he is still worth a draft.

So we agree then. The best thing about Marcus Williams' career so far is that he was traded for a first round pick. Rod Thorn, smooth operator!

I find it strange that what you're concerned with in regard to Marcus Williams is that could have netted us a first round pick. (Which is pure speculation, we don't know what would have happened here except he probably would have sucked even worse.)

I wonder, if he had showed up in New York and sucked as bad as he did with the Nets, would people still be pining for him?

You see, what I care about is whether a player can help the Knicks. Selfish shoot first PGs who shoot terrible percentages and turn the ball over every possession and get beat every time on defense -- we got that already.

I'll let you worry about drafting players that we can trade in for future draft choices. My concern is on-floor results of the player picked. Balkman: not very good. Marcus Williams: not very good.

I know someone who is cool with the Nets too and he said that they said Williams sucked balls and the Nets wanted to trade him while somebody still thought he was a decent player. That sounds a lot more plausible than a player who cannot even hold a backup spot demanding to start, don't you think?

oohah

LOL... good posting oohah... I agree, Marcus williams was just flat out bad... there is no other way to put it. I keep hearing people talk about the knicks passing up PG's... well tell me other than rondo, who in the hell did we pass up, that was worth taking.. People complain about the knicks having too many of the same type players. Undersized , shoot first combo guards.. and we pass them up, they complain about not taking them... LOL.. go figure..

TKF, you did not even like Rondo last season as the Celtics point guard. When I said the Celtics would be fine with Rondo most of you fans felt the Celtics were not going to go that far because they did not have a pg. Also we will see what happens with Bayless because I think the kid will be able to play in Portland regardless if he is undersized. I already know Bayless is going to be on your hit list. So if you have league pass pick a few Portland games and we can debate on Bayless game.

Posted by BigC:

Posted by tkf:

Posted by oohah:

Laughable about Marcus William complaining about wanting to be a future starter I don't think so. I spoke to someone thats cool with the Nets and thats what he told me. If you're not upset about not drafting Marcus Williams instead of Balkman thats' you. You want to have the same attitude about getting Dallinari over a point guard fine. Keep on watching the Knicks pass up point guards and you see how far they go.

How many players do the Knicks have that are tradeable? I will say it again since it seems you missed the boat. Marcus Williams could have either been productive on the Knicks or if that did not work the Knicks could have traded him for a pick. What part of trading Williams for a draft pick don't you understand? So even with like you like saying, "Williams sucking" the Nets were able to pull a draft pick. Now explain how many players you think the Knicks can trade for a draft on this team besides Lee, Chandler, and maybe Jamal? Yet this scrub as you like to say was able to be traded for a draft pick.

That's a problem for me. Especially when we are sitting with players that no one wants. How does that sound to you that scrubs are being traded for draft picks and the Knicks are not able to make real trades? Or better yet a draft pick.

Think about it. Why on earth would it have hurt the Knicks to draft Williams if he would have trade value compared to the players we have now how probably can't even get traded for Matchbox cards and a Happy Meal?

We can play Tom and Jerry mouse games all the day or you can realize that the Knicks would have made a better move by getting Marcus aka "The Scrub From Hell" because at the end of the day he is still worth a draft.

So we agree then. The best thing about Marcus Williams' career so far is that he was traded for a first round pick. Rod Thorn, smooth operator!

I find it strange that what you're concerned with in regard to Marcus Williams is that could have netted us a first round pick. (Which is pure speculation, we don't know what would have happened here except he probably would have sucked even worse.)

I wonder, if he had showed up in New York and sucked as bad as he did with the Nets, would people still be pining for him?

You see, what I care about is whether a player can help the Knicks. Selfish shoot first PGs who shoot terrible percentages and turn the ball over every possession and get beat every time on defense -- we got that already.

I'll let you worry about drafting players that we can trade in for future draft choices. My concern is on-floor results of the player picked. Balkman: not very good. Marcus Williams: not very good.

I know someone who is cool with the Nets too and he said that they said Williams sucked balls and the Nets wanted to trade him while somebody still thought he was a decent player. That sounds a lot more plausible than a player who cannot even hold a backup spot demanding to start, don't you think?

oohah

LOL... good posting oohah... I agree, Marcus williams was just flat out bad... there is no other way to put it. I keep hearing people talk about the knicks passing up PG's... well tell me other than rondo, who in the hell did we pass up, that was worth taking.. People complain about the knicks having too many of the same type players. Undersized , shoot first combo guards.. and we pass them up, they complain about not taking them... LOL.. go figure..

TKF, you did not even like Rondo last season as the Celtics point guard. When I said the Celtics would be fine with Rondo most of you fans felt the Celtics were not going to go that far because they did not have a pg. Also we will see what happens with Bayless because I think the kid will be able to play in Portland regardless if he is undersized. I already know Bayless is going to be on your hit list. So if you have league pass pick a few Portland games and we can debate on Bayless game.

I still don't like rondo, I think he is a average PG.. what in my post, makes you think I like rondo?... I just went along with rondo since oohah conceeded that he was a PG we passed up, that is all... Bayless has less PG skills than rondo... No one is saying bayless can't play.. why is this so hard to get through? Bayless can play!! Just not PG, we needed a PG... Simple...

[Edited by - tkf on 23-07-2008 10:42 AM]

Posted by oohah:

"If the Nets thought Williams was worth a dam the Nets wouldn't had traded for Harris"

Are you serious?

Get real. We are talking about Davin Harris. Who the hell wouldn't want him on their team? Some feel his the next Tony Parker. So of course the Nets went out and got him. The reality is Williams got traded for a first round pick. Now you tell me If any team will take on Balkman for that? You say don't care about not drafting Marcus yet you are debating on this very issue? You don't have to be a top point guard to have teams wanting a player. The Nets did not like Williams attitude and felt he would not be satisfied until he started. You keep on feeling content about the Knicks not selecting point guards.

You don't get it. If the Knicks drafted Williams the Knicks could have gotten a chance to have good point guard. If Williams did not work out he still would have had trade value. What is Balkman's trade value? At the end of the day it would have been a win win situation for the Knicks.

You're trying to introduce all kinds of side issues here to make your point that Marcus Williams doesn't suck. But he has sucked, and if he puts up some numbers in a run and gun system (If he sees any court time which is debatable.)he still sucks.Make a million arguments if you like, Marcus Williams has sucked. That is not really up for debate. You wanted him drafted here? He couldn't beat out Eddie House or Darrel Armstrong, we don't need him.

It seems you just want the Knicks to go out and pick any PG? I agree, we should have drafted a PG instead of Balkman, but that PG is Rajon Rondo. Marcus Williams is a burger who just got replaced by Keyon Dooling dude!! Not satisfied unless he was a starter? Where did you cook that up? Laughable. He couldn't even hold down the backup role when it was handed to him.

I don't care what Balkman has done, if he's out of the NBA next year. It is irrelevant if we are talking about Marcus Williams. Bring up Rondo instead. Up to this point Marcus Williams has been no better than Balkman, however he had so much more opportunity.

Some feel Harris is the next Tony Parker? That is the first I've heard of that. I can tell you for sure the 2007-08 season is the first season Harris was a full-time starter in the NBA.

Okay, one thing we can agree on: Marcus Williams' biggest achievement in his pro career thus far is he was still worth a first round pick after blowing like a hurricane for 2 years.

oohah

So if Williams excells with the Warriors he still sucks just because they are a running team? Its pretty clear you have an agenda here. I've been reading this board for some time, and I remember you were vehement in knocking Williams on draft night (before he even stepped on the court), when Isiah passed him over for Balkman. Regardless of what Williams can or can't do next year, you will find some way to knock him down. You are already putting out there that any success he might have next year will be do to the fact that the Warriors are a running team.

Posted by oohah:
Williams getting significant playing time in order to put up those stats is not a sure thing by a long shot.

Posted by Uptown:

As far as GS being a big numbers system, well its true, but how can you acurately judge any players under that system in your opinion? So if Marcus puts up deceant numbers, will it be because he's finally getting the consistant minutes needed (as any player would need regardless of team) or would it be soley based on the GS/Nellie system?

I believe players all around the league (allstars included) excell in certain systems whether it be an open court game or half court and may struggle in others. I mean, how would you acurately grade a player like Monta Ellis? He's obviously suited for GS ball, but are his numbers a product of GS ball or is he that good? I choose the later, but feel his full potential can be reached in the GS system.

I am not bequeathing Williams a successful year next year, as I said, I think with playing time, and in that system, this will be Williams best opportunity since joining the league to have a good year. If he cant cut it in GS, then for sure he is a bust, as you say. I just feel he hasn't really been given an extended opportunity to suceeed as of yet.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by oohah:

I wonder if we could have traded Crawford to Golden State.

oohah

i'm sure we could have, but we probably wouldn't have gotten much back other than Stephen Jackson.

I don't know if Stephen Jackson's contract is prohibitive, but I would rather see him play than Crawford. At least he plays some D.

oohah