Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by sebstar:

I agree, its not as if Mayo couldnt have been had if the Knicks would have gotten creative. We're talking about moving up a slot.

Dont blame Zeke for this one.

Lee was wrong for rejecting the deal. It doesnt mean he's the worst person in the world, but he was wrong and we'll see in the coming years just how much of an impact his block will have. It's ok, you're not going to get thrown in prison for taking Lee to task for something.

God, people will defend someone on anything if they like said person.

[Edited by - sebstar on 07-14-2008 7:01 PM]

Why was Lee wrong? Perhaps Memphis appreciates his honesty. Lee put his own interests ahead of the Knicks organization's interests, but why should he be more loyal to the Knicks than to himself? Do you value your employer more than you value yourself?

We'll, its unfair to view it from the perspective of Lee, because that changes the conversation, obviously. And I sure dont want to turn this into a management verses labor argument (skewed as it is by NBA standards) because with my ideology, you know where I'm going to side.

I don't appreciate it from my perspective as a Knicks fan. When players switch rosters in what is 99% of the time money fueled, usually the first thing out their mouth is --- "its a business." Well...I dont see whats wrong with that being a two-lane highway in this case.

Unless there is something pressing here that I am unaware of, I dont see how the trade put him at an extreme disadvantage. Just seems to me that he preferred the NY nightlife over Memphis. Cool. We'll go to Memphis and re-sign with us after a couple of years.

This could have been a franchise-changing transaction. Thats the moral of the story to me.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by loweyecue:

Posted by joec32033:

Lee cost us Mayo. Only way he wins back my support is if he proves to be a better player(that means more than the one dimensional hustle player he currently is) and he resigns with us for a discount to prove that he really wants to play here.

So far there have been two instances where he has acte like a primadonna.

First was the whole Larry Brown is stealing our joy crap and now this. I am really starting to sour on him.

I just hope he realizes the repurcussions of his actions. He alienated himself from new management that will be here long term. That is never good. I am curious if this was an unolicted thing his agent did or if Memphis wanted him resigned as soon as he got there and then his agent did it. There is a difference to me.

I also don't buy that his agent was doing his own thing. Agents work for players. He had to know. That is something that had to be run by Lee first. I think that part is an out and out lie about him not knowing.

How did he alienate himself with the management? He didnt oppose the trade did he? His "agent" said he wouldn't continue playing for a sorry *** team. Good for him.

And how did he cost us Mayo? Mayo went @3, Lee would have gotten us he 5th pick at best.

Now there's a good question!

Did you guys miss the trade?

Posted by sebstar:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by sebstar:

I agree, its not as if Mayo couldnt have been had if the Knicks would have gotten creative. We're talking about moving up a slot.

Dont blame Zeke for this one.

Lee was wrong for rejecting the deal. It doesnt mean he's the worst person in the world, but he was wrong and we'll see in the coming years just how much of an impact his block will have. It's ok, you're not going to get thrown in prison for taking Lee to task for something.

God, people will defend someone on anything if they like said person.

[Edited by - sebstar on 07-14-2008 7:01 PM]

Why was Lee wrong? Perhaps Memphis appreciates his honesty. Lee put his own interests ahead of the Knicks organization's interests, but why should he be more loyal to the Knicks than to himself? Do you value your employer more than you value yourself?

We'll, its unfair to view it from the perspective of Lee, because that changes the conversation, obviously. And I sure dont want to turn this into a management verses labor argument (skewed as it is by NBA standards) because with my ideology, you know where I'm going to side.

I don't appreciate it from my perspective as a Knicks fan. When players switch rosters in what is 99% of the time money fueled, usually the first thing out their mouth is --- "its a business." Well...I dont see whats wrong with that being a two-lane highway in this case.

Unless there is something pressing here that I am unaware of, I dont see how the trade put him at an extreme disadvantage. Just seems to me that he preferred the NY nightlife over Memphis. Cool. We'll go to Memphis and re-sign with us after a couple of years.

This could have been a franchise-changing transaction. Thats the moral of the story to me.

It's fair to blame Lee but it's unfair to view the situation from his perspective? I actually don't care what his reason was--whether it was weather, southern culture, the night life, or the most trivial possible reason. He EARNED the leverage that he had over the situation. The people to give 100% (and no less!) of the blame to for us not having Mayo are those currently in upper management positions.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by sebstar:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by sebstar:

I agree, its not as if Mayo couldnt have been had if the Knicks would have gotten creative. We're talking about moving up a slot.

Dont blame Zeke for this one.

Lee was wrong for rejecting the deal. It doesnt mean he's the worst person in the world, but he was wrong and we'll see in the coming years just how much of an impact his block will have. It's ok, you're not going to get thrown in prison for taking Lee to task for something.

God, people will defend someone on anything if they like said person.

[Edited by - sebstar on 07-14-2008 7:01 PM]

Why was Lee wrong? Perhaps Memphis appreciates his honesty. Lee put his own interests ahead of the Knicks organization's interests, but why should he be more loyal to the Knicks than to himself? Do you value your employer more than you value yourself?

We'll, its unfair to view it from the perspective of Lee, because that changes the conversation, obviously. And I sure dont want to turn this into a management verses labor argument (skewed as it is by NBA standards) because with my ideology, you know where I'm going to side.

I don't appreciate it from my perspective as a Knicks fan. When players switch rosters in what is 99% of the time money fueled, usually the first thing out their mouth is --- "its a business." Well...I dont see whats wrong with that being a two-lane highway in this case.

Unless there is something pressing here that I am unaware of, I dont see how the trade put him at an extreme disadvantage. Just seems to me that he preferred the NY nightlife over Memphis. Cool. We'll go to Memphis and re-sign with us after a couple of years.

This could have been a franchise-changing transaction. Thats the moral of the story to me.

It's fair to blame Lee but it's unfair to view the situation from his perspective? I actually don't care what his reason was--whether it was weather, southern culture, the night life, or the most trivial possible reason. He EARNED the leverage that he had over the situation. The people to give 100% (and no less!) of the blame to for us not having Mayo are those currently in upper management positions.

Very poor logic from someone as educated as yourself. Just because one has EARNED the right to do something, doesnt automatically give it moral clarity.

Now I made it clear that I was speaking from MY perspective, not his. I'm sorry, I'm not going to put his whims above the welfare of the Knicks franchise. We're not talking about anyone else, so stop trying to shift the focus of this thread. We're talking about Lee, his agent, and their me first decision...Not the failures of Knick management. Thats what this is, nothing more.

[Edited by - sebstar on 07-14-2008 7:44 PM]

[Edited by - sebstar on 07-14-2008 7:48 PM]

Posted by sebstar:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by sebstar:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by sebstar:

I agree, its not as if Mayo couldnt have been had if the Knicks would have gotten creative. We're talking about moving up a slot.

Dont blame Zeke for this one.

Lee was wrong for rejecting the deal. It doesnt mean he's the worst person in the world, but he was wrong and we'll see in the coming years just how much of an impact his block will have. It's ok, you're not going to get thrown in prison for taking Lee to task for something.

God, people will defend someone on anything if they like said person.

[Edited by - sebstar on 07-14-2008 7:01 PM]

Why was Lee wrong? Perhaps Memphis appreciates his honesty. Lee put his own interests ahead of the Knicks organization's interests, but why should he be more loyal to the Knicks than to himself? Do you value your employer more than you value yourself?

We'll, its unfair to view it from the perspective of Lee, because that changes the conversation, obviously. And I sure dont want to turn this into a management verses labor argument (skewed as it is by NBA standards) because with my ideology, you know where I'm going to side.

I don't appreciate it from my perspective as a Knicks fan. When players switch rosters in what is 99% of the time money fueled, usually the first thing out their mouth is --- "its a business." Well...I dont see whats wrong with that being a two-lane highway in this case.

Unless there is something pressing here that I am unaware of, I dont see how the trade put him at an extreme disadvantage. Just seems to me that he preferred the NY nightlife over Memphis. Cool. We'll go to Memphis and re-sign with us after a couple of years.

This could have been a franchise-changing transaction. Thats the moral of the story to me.

It's fair to blame Lee but it's unfair to view the situation from his perspective? I actually don't care what his reason was--whether it was weather, southern culture, the night life, or the most trivial possible reason. He EARNED the leverage that he had over the situation. The people to give 100% (and no less!) of the blame to for us not having Mayo are those currently in upper management positions.

Very poor logic from someone as educated as yourself. Just because one has EARNED the right to do something, doesnt automatically give it moral clarity.

Now I made it clear that I was speaking from MY perspective, not his. I'm sorry, I'm not going to put his whims above the welfare of the Knicks franchise. We're not talking about anyone else, so stop trying to shift the focus of this thread. We're talking about Lee, his agent, and their me first decision...Not the failures of Knick management. Thats what this is, nothing more.

[Edited by - sebstar on 07-14-2008 7:44 PM]

[Edited by - sebstar on 07-14-2008 7:48 PM]

OK, I actually didn't understand one argument you made but if you want to blame Lee, I'm not going to try to stop you.

Damn, I posted this in the wrong thread!...


Bonn, sorry it's been so long since I got to respond.


Bonn the original deal was to send Lee to Memphis for the 5, draft Love there and trade him to Minny for Mayo (a la the Memphis deal with Minny). Lee(or his agent based on who you want to believe) scuttled that. We may have ended up with Mayo and Gallo. Mayo and whoever. It was reported the day after the draft.

As per you're example, you're debating the morality of Lee doing this and his freedom to do so. I agree he is totally free to do stuff like this as he pleases. But much like the right to free speech, you can say whatever you want, however you are not free of the repercussions of what you say.

I would rather have Mayo and Gallo, or Mayo and almost any other player in this draft instead of coming out of this draft with yet another PF and still no depth anywhere else. Part of the reason I would do this trade is I like Mayo a lot. He has some great leadership qualities. He plays a position we have a need at. His work ethic out of college is mentioned on par with some of the hardest workers in the game.

When I say Lee cost us Mayo, I mean just that. He cost us Mayo. I don't hate Lee, but the man is flexing awful hard for a career sixth man only in the league for 4 years who hasn't played on a team that has won more than 33 games.