You're the one who's spinning and 32 wins is really no better than 22 and Al Jefferson will make it easier for Mchale to build around that's the point. He doesn't have to go searching for a power forward and he probably won't have to have a dominant big man playing next to Al.

Thank You Captain Obvious! There is only one problem though he still needs to fill about 8 other spots including bench players.

Posted by martin:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by martin:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by crzymdups:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by crzymdups:

Posted by djsunyc:

common thread on both those teams are high lottery picks.

detroit: billups (3), sheed (4), rip (7)
boston: kg (5), ray (4), pierce (10)

[Edited by - djsunyc on 06-18-2008 09:37 AM]

and really exceptional defense, in spite of being cobbled together as FAs.

actually, wasn't KG defensive player of the year? so was big ben.


this is why I keep rooting for the JOneal trade - he's the only guy out there I can see having that kind of impact for us.

Wait, exceptional defense matters in order to win a championship?

Funny how there is no exception to the rule about defense when it comes to championships but D'Antonio nuthuggers want to harp on about cap space.

Rivers was never given credit as a defensive guru - it comes down to players. Riley wasn't known as a defensive guru in LA, either. Coaches can change based on their personnel. Bottom line, if we can get the right personnel in here the coach can be changed easily enough.

I had a problem with the D'Antoni hire at first because it just seemed so out of touch with reality - we have so far to go before the coach even matters. But I don't mind it now because D'Antoni can at least pump up the stats of some of our hard to move players. As long as we get the right personnel in here, the coach can come seoond. If we start making ridiculous personnel decisions to suit the coach, then I'll be furious, but I'll wait and see first.

Riley's championship Lakers teams always played good hard defense. His Knicks and Heat teams obviously took defense to another level but they also didn't have the firepower that LA did. Doc played for Riley and hired a defensive genius in Tom Thibodeau.

D'Antonio wants his players. His players don't play defense because he doesn't think like that. He thinks that good defense means outscoring your opponent. In this town that should and will be a problem.

Marion, Raja Bell, Barbosa. Sometimes it's the players you are given.

Well as the GM for part of his time there and as a head coach with great influence on player procurement, they weren't really given to him as much as they were what he wanted. As was the system that he wanted to play.

So let's take a step back. D'Antoni's players do play defense, although the coach was handcuffed by Nash and Amare. There is a point made that Amare wasn't pushed enough to play better defense but none to say that D'Antoni's teams did not play defense. I am also not sure that Mike would have wanted the team to trade away all of those first round picks, so the line of "great influence on player procurement" is diluted. He got Banks and didn't use him, big deal.

Where is this proof that D'Antonio focused on team defense?

Posted by bitty41:

You're the one who's spinning and 32 wins is really no better than 22 and Al Jefferson will make it easier for Mchale to build around that's the point. He doesn't have to go searching for a power forward and he probably won't have to have a dominant big man playing next to Al.

Thank You Captain Obvious! There is only one problem though he still needs to fill about 8 other spots including bench players.

You're trying right off acquiring Al as no big deal. Yes the Wolves won 22gms last yr they're freaking rebuilding Captainess Obvious! He's not that studly because they won 22gms yeah whatever. It's has more to do with winning 22gms and if you can acknowledge Mchale has to find other pieces, well acknowledge the fact POWER FORWARD won't be one of them.

Posted by bitty41:

And that point has nothing to do with Minnesota getting back an elite talent in the KG trade.

I don't think McHale is a very good GM but that was only the first season after acquiring Jefferson. Let's see what he does in the next 2, assuming he gets that chance, before we judge him. If nothing else, he got the best possible package for KG which included a 22 year old 20/10 player. It's not like the Gasol trade.

I don't care so much about McHale as a manager as I do about GMs all over the league waving the white flag and getting a pat on the back from some fans because he saved cap space, a never won anything talented young player and got a few draft picks. That is lazy management any fool with a some b-ball knowledge and can sit back and wait for high lotto picks and keep their fingers crossed for free-agents but you there is a clear pattern that those GMs who actively attempt to make their teams better every year see success whereas those playing the lotto continue to lose.

Ummm, the Celtics kept collecting lotto picks and used them in trades that won them a championship.

You don't just win by using lotto picks or trades or free agents or cap space. It's a combination of all of them.

Posted by djsunyc:

malik + 6 for diaw + 15

Diaw + 15<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Brewer + 23


DJ you fail on this one.

Ummm, the Celtics kept collecting lotto picks and used them in trades that won them a championship.

You don't just win by using lotto picks or trades or free agents or cap space. It's a combination of all of them.

Boston is one extreme example. Again I am not denying that you need all these things but I'm talking about a GM being aggressive vs non-aggressive. Aggressive management is always looking to make moves and they are always looking to make the team better with every move they make. Whereas non-aggressive management that believes that losing will eventually lead to the yellow brick road of number 1 picks and great free-agent signings.

Posted by martin:

Posted by islesfan:

Where is this proof that D'Antonio focused on team defense?

There is none cause none of us were in practice to see what they were or were not working on. Your take was that D'Antonio's teams don't play defense, which is also not true. he did focus on their strength's and personnel.

People who kept track of his practices say that they were short and sweet. I think they needed more work than that on their defense.

No, he focused on what he wanted to focus on for his System. Team defense had nothing to do with that System.

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by bitty41:

Ummm, the Celtics kept collecting lotto picks and used them in trades that won them a championship.

You don't just win by using lotto picks or trades or free agents or cap space. It's a combination of all of them.

Boston is one extreme example. Again I am not denying that you need all these things but I'm talking about a GM being aggressive vs non-aggressive. Aggressive management is always looking to make moves and they are always looking to make the team better with every move they make. Whereas non-aggressive management that believes that losing will eventually lead to the yellow brick road of number 1 picks and great free-agent signings.

But you said Danny and Mchale were lazy and by your own definition they've been some of the more active GM's in the league the past couple seasons. Especially Ainge!

Should I site for you all the potential moves Ainge was turned down on or had deals fall through for various reasons?



[Edited by - TrueBlue on 06-18-2008 12:21 PM]

Exactly Ainge was a lazy GM until this past off-season! Hence the NBA Championship cha-ching. I still in disbelief that him and Doc Rivers won a Championship. It goes to show that with a little fire under your ass the trophy can be had.

People need to stop pretending that D'Antonio was a prisoner to his personnel when he had tremendous input into personnel decisions, for Christs sakes he was the GM for part of his time there.

Posted by islesfan:

People need to stop pretending that D'Antonio was a prisoner to his personnel when he had tremendous input into personnel decisions, for Christs sakes he was the GM for part of his time there.

what moves or trades was he responsible for?

Posted by bitty41:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by bitty41:

Ummm, the Celtics kept collecting lotto picks and used them in trades that won them a championship.

You don't just win by using lotto picks or trades or free agents or cap space. It's a combination of all of them.

Boston is one extreme example. Again I am not denying that you need all these things but I'm talking about a GM being aggressive vs non-aggressive. Aggressive management is always looking to make moves and they are always looking to make the team better with every move they make. Whereas non-aggressive management that believes that losing will eventually lead to the yellow brick road of number 1 picks and great free-agent signings.

But you said Danny and Mchale were lazy and by your own definition they've been some of the more active GM's in the league the past couple seasons. Especially Ainge!

Should I site for you all the potential moves Ainge was turned down on or had deals fall through for various reasons?



[Edited by - TrueBlue on 06-18-2008 12:21 PM]

Exactly Ainge was a lazy GM until this past off-season! Hence the NBA Championship cha-ching. I still in disbelief that him and Doc Rivers won a Championship. It goes to show that with a little fire under your ass the trophy can be had.

Wrong LOL!

In 2003 he traded away Antoine Walker who was a huge piece to a playoff team that went to the ECF the yr prior to him becoming GM

In 2004-2005 season Danny offered Tony Allen, Their 2005 first round pick, and I believe Raef to the NOH for Baron Davis. The deal was taken off the table in the we hours because of uncertainty from Baron and the Hornets side on his knee

In 2005 summer Danny offered Portland Paul Pierce, their first rounder, and another player I believe Perkins for the #3 pick in the draft. Portland agreed... Paul Pierce didn't and killed the trade. Portland sent their 3 pick to Utah. Danny was going to draft Chris Paul. Go ask Boston fans about this

In 2006 he inquired to Mchale about Kevin Garnett and had a preliminary discussions about K.G. The same yr Danny contacted Phx to start a Pierce/Marion deal.

In 2006 he traded away the 7th pick for essentially what I feel was for the 21rst pick in Rajon Rondo to dump Raef's deal and get back Telfair and Ratliff

In 2007 summer he attempted trading for Allen Iverson, Shawn Marion, and Jermain O'neal and all deals fell through.


I left out all the numerous transactions prior to 2007 that took place.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 06-18-2008 12:45 PM]