what did he do?

Posted by TMS:

Posted by newyorknewyork:

On a serious note. When you have to give up the #6 lottery pick in order to trade a player and get back Reggie Evens & #16. There value doesn't get any lower then that. Thats the lowest level you can be in terms of a trade.

If thats the case then Id rather buy Randolph out and keep the #6 pick. Id rather have #6 six pick and guranteed cap space in 2011. Then have #16 pick and hope to be able to get cap space by 2010. Or end up trading even more assets(like Lee,Chandler,Nate) in order to get cap space by 2010 with the huge risk that Lebron, Wade only use us to get better deals by there respective teams and we end up trading the #6, Lee, Chandler by packaging them with Crawford &/or Curry &/or Jefferies only to end up with a 2nd/3rd tier free agent.

let's say we hold onto Zach... in order to have the cap space to target any of the guys we would wanna target in 2010 we'd have to get rid of Curry & Jefferies along w/making another move to cull another $5-7 mil off our books (either by not re-signing D Lee or Nate, or trading Jamal for a shorter term deal)... how easy do u think that's gonna be to pull off?

Zach's contract won't be a trade chip until it becomes an expiring a year later if that... would u rather have the chance to target Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Amare, Dirk or wait a year to try a stab at Yao, Parker & a buncha 3rd tier guys?

[Edited by - TMS on 06-14-2008 1:22 PM]

Say we held on to Randolph's contract instead of giving up any assets to move him. Then put our attention on moving Jamal Crawford & Eddie Curry for shorter contracts.

Say we give Lee 9mil & Nate 6mil. We don't pick up Collins option but do pick up Chandler TO at 2.1mil. Subtract Crawford & Curry's contract then add in 2 first rd draft picks(08-09draft) and we would have probably a 52mil salary cap by 2010. Now say instead of paying Nate 6mil we trade Nate for a future draft pick. Our salary would be at 46mil(mind you by 2010 the salary cap will probably around 60mil). That would be about 14mil to sign a free agent and keep the #6 pick and we could even give a crazy pay hike for there 3yr. Lebron would be the highest paid player of that class and he is probably going to get what around or slightly better then what Orlando overpaid Rashard Lewis. He will start at 17mil and top out at 24-25 with a 5yr deal as would Chris Paul. They aren't getting 20mil deals and toping out at 30 as it seems some guys believe. Joe Johnson would be able to be had for that 14mil though, as would Dwayne Wade & Amare Stoudemire.

Jefferies would also have an expiring contract. There will be a team out there who is under the cap who would be willing to eat Jefferies 6.8 for a draft pick if we were looking to add more money to sign a big name free agent. By dumping Jefferies that brings our cap space to about 21mil free. Even with Randolph there. That also means the season after we would have 17mil to go after another free agent in 2010-2011 Ming,Carmelo,Kaman,Prince,Chandler,West,Barbosa,Salmons,Parker,Caron Butler.

Jamal Crawford, Malik Rose for A.Walker & Troy Hudson
or
Jamal Crawford,Malik Rose & Jerred Jefferies for A.Walker,Troy Hudson & Marco Jaric.
Eddie Curry for Mark Blount a future first & 2nd.
Nate Robinson & Renaldo Balkman to whoever is interested for pick or pick(s)

Use the extra pick or picks to get a team who is under the cap to eat Jefferies or Jaric's remaining yr. Or worst case Senario we trade David Lee's 9mil to a team for a smaller contract and an asset or 2 to the cap space to hard press Lebron.

I'd rather keep Zach and deal him once we have this team playing better. Deal from a position of strength rather than weakness. This team isn't gonna get fixed in one offseason most likely so what's the rush to send him away along with our valuable pick? Who knows who we might end up getting.

Cap space by 2010 would be great, but we'll have a lot of opportunities to improve this teams talent between now and then, why throw one draft in the toilet?

we'd have another $17m in 2011 regardless if we keep Zach or not... both Curry & Jamal's contracts will be off our books by then, so that doesn't change anything in this argument... 2011 is not the problem here, it's 2010 we need to be focusing on.

& i already went through that list of availables that year & i would much much rather make moves to target the 2010 year crop first, then be in the position to target someone else from that list the following season, which would be distinctly possible if we traded Zach right now instead of waiting til it becomes an expiring.

also, how does it factor to you that it would make sense to trade a pick to unload Jefferies' contract later as as opposed to unloading Zach now? Zach is clearly the more poisonous presence on this roster... it would make a lot more sense to get rid of Zach now & then worry about getting Jefferies off the books later if u ask me.

& Antoine Walker has a team option after next year doesn't he? why would MIN take on Jefferies' contract when they could just tell Walker to take a hike w/a lower money buyout & keep their cap flexibility the following year? u can't factor Walker into any trades unless u execute it right now, & i don't see MIN taking any of our longterm contracts this year unless we throw in that pick to begin with.

also, Jaric also has a $7m deal that expires after the 2010 season whereas Jamal & Jefferies will account for $17m in cap for the T'Wolves in 2010... they could just stand pat & not do us any favors unless we included some better incentive like a pick.

Eddy Curry for a shorter term contract & a future 1st & 2nd? come on bro, is that even realistic? Isiah's not GMing the Heat.

why do we envision teams out there bending over backwards to give the Knicks the cap flexibility to target the big names in 2010? does that make sense? you have to be willing to make tough sacrifices now in order to benefit later.

but i'll play along for now... let's say we do keep Zach & are somehow able to unload Curry & Jamal for shorter length deals that will be off the books by 2010... what do we have left:

Zach $17m
D Lee $9m
Jaric $8m
Jefferies $7m
Nate $6m
Balk $3m
'08 #6 pick $3m
'09 pick $2m
Chandler $2m

$57m for 9 players which leaves you $3m to sign at least 4-5 more players to round out the roster... then remember we no longer have our '10 pick due to the Marbury trade so now you're talking about trading Balk & Nate for an extra pick to unload Jefferies or Jaric which would leave you with 6 players under contract at $41m... add a max contract to that & you're left with maybe $3-4m if that to sign 6-7 more D-leaguers to play alongside a roster of a max contract FA, Zach Randolph, D Lee & whoever we pick in the 1st round this year & next? is that the type of team that you guys think is going to appeal to bigname FA's in 2 years? i don't.

doesn't make sense how that scenario is much more palatteable or even more realistic than the one where we unload Zach... we could feasibly have this roster in 2010 if we went that route:

max contract FA $15m
Curry $11m
Jamal $10m
D Lee $9m
Jefferies $7m
Nate $6m
Balk $3m
Chandler $2m
'08 #16 pick $2m
'09 pick $2m

that's about $67m in guaranteed dollars... even if you had to trade away a future pick, Balk or Nate to unload Jefferies at that point, you'd still have a representative team & also another $21m in cap space coming off the books after that season to target another bigname FA to play w/whoever you sign in 2010.

Posted by TMS:

how do some of these 1-2 combos in 2011 sound to you guys?

Lebron & Butler?
Wade & Yao?
Bosh & Parker?
Amare & Melo?
Dirk & Prince?

or should we just stand pat & hope whoever we draft at #6 turns out to be the next Kobe or Duncan?

[Edited by - TMS on 06-14-2008 7:05 PM]

If I thought trading the pick was the only way to gain cap space maybe I'd be as high on the trade as you are. Donnie will find a better way.

TMS you seem a little on edge and upset. I know what you need.

Posted by eViL:

Posted by TMS:

how do some of these 1-2 combos in 2011 sound to you guys?

Lebron & Butler?
Wade & Yao?
Bosh & Parker?
Amare & Melo?
Dirk & Prince?

or should we just stand pat & hope whoever we draft at #6 turns out to be the next Kobe or Duncan?

[Edited by - TMS on 06-14-2008 7:05 PM]

If I thought trading the pick was the only way to gain cap space maybe I'd be as high on the trade as you are. Donnie will find a better way.

i sure hope so bro... i'm putting all my trust in Walsh's hands at this point.

Posted by TMS:

how do some of these 1-2 combos in 2011 sound to you guys?

Lebron & Butler?
Wade & Yao?
Bosh & Parker?
Amare & Melo?
Dirk & Prince?

or should we just stand pat & hope whoever we draft at #6 turns out to be the next Kobe or Duncan?

[Edited by - TMS on 06-14-2008 7:05 PM]

isn't Dwyane Wade's player option for the 2010/2011 season? if so than the Knicks are already slated to be under the salary cap by that time according to hoopshype?

Posted by SlimPack:

Posted by TMS:

how do some of these 1-2 combos in 2011 sound to you guys?

Lebron & Butler?
Wade & Yao?
Bosh & Parker?
Amare & Melo?
Dirk & Prince?

or should we just stand pat & hope whoever we draft at #6 turns out to be the next Kobe or Duncan?

[Edited by - TMS on 06-14-2008 7:05 PM]

isn't Dwyane Wade's player option for the 2010/2011 season? if so than the Knicks are already slated to be under the salary cap by that time according to hoopshype?

We won't be under the cap when you add in the #6 draft pick salary, 2009 draft pick salary, EY's and Effries Player Options, Lee and/or Nate's extensions, plus potentially any FA signings we may or may not make.

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/knicks.jsp This site is a little better when considering Team Salary Cap.

We have to unload salary and I gave an in depth example of how we could do it in the "Who Wouldn't You Trade Zach For" Thread

Posted by TMS:

he has an option the same year as Lebron & those other guys

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/miami.htm

the Knicks will not be under the cap in 2010 unless we unload either Zach or both Curry & Jefferies/Jamal... the salary total in the Knicks salary page does not account for the player options

[Edited by - TMS on 06-14-2008 10:57 PM]

Hoopshype has them at around 28 mill. If Curry's and Jeffries' options aren't being included in that, but Crawford's is, cant' the Knicks just trade Crawford for a shorter contract, and package someone like nate so they could trade Jeffries for one? Just trading Crawford would put the Knicks at around 35 million discluding the contracts of the younger players.

Posted by SlimPack:

Posted by bitty41:

Some of you are the biggest hypocrites. When it comes to Ron Artest or Stephen Jackson their "character" is not an issue but Zach apparently is held to an entirely different standard.

Also where exactly is the news story? No one was arrested nor was anyone even questioned by the police. If someone could point to me where a crime was committed maybe I could see people's point a little better.

And suspension and fine for what?

I agree that whoever wants Artest but wants Zach gone is an idiot. that's why I've never endorsed adding artest to the roster under any circumstance. even if it were just a MLE signing.

Count me as one who said I don't want Artest here. I like him better than Zach but I don't want him here.