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It's Official....KVH is a New York Knick
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playa2
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7/23/2003  10:53 AM
A cat doesn't change his SPOTS, Sprewell will play along FOR AWHILE just like he did with the knicks but at 33 yrs old he will feel slighted by KG and Cassell and you will see after mid season the "True Mewell" Forcing shots will come back. How many games last yr did you see spree trying to match Houston shot for shot once Houston got hot except for the games Houston had 50 + pts, if he would have tried that then, he would have been easier exposed to his chucking tendicies
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
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ICEMAN
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7/23/2003  10:57 AM
Kevin is a upcoming free agent, seems they are doing what they can to see him stay,
you listen to Jimmy, But you cant hear Jimmy
Caseloads
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7/23/2003  10:58 AM
Posted by knixphan:

We have no choice but to take some chances...What if the tin man gets a lube?

Ok - that sounds weird, but you get the point. Remember when Spree was the cancer nobody wanted to come here? Especially when our HEART - JOHN STARKS, was a part of the deal?

Amazing how stuff can change...let's see what happens...
Starks, ugh...
ICEMAN
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7/23/2003  11:02 AM
spreewell is not a selfish guy on offense he is a team player, that notion is just childish. lets ttry to be objective in what we write around here.

he has other flaws however. how can this not be a good move for minny, you lose brandons contracts and get spree. no brainer.
you listen to Jimmy, But you cant hear Jimmy
ICEMAN
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7/23/2003  11:12 AM
to have a small foward as the biggest player is still structally flawed,

when you have a small foward that cant run or handle you are still structally flawed.

no doubt spree had to go i rahter have robinson, but we got a bigger so every one says, but horn doesn' play big he stays on the perimeter, and never goes to the foul line. he has games where he just disapears.

latteral move at best. knicks add another year to the spree contract. mediocreness is our policy.
you listen to Jimmy, But you cant hear Jimmy
knickgeek
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7/23/2003  11:15 AM
This does not seem like such a bad trade to me, although I hope the Knicks don't include Frank Williams in the trade. Keith Van Horn is a flawed player, no doubt. On the other hand, so is Sprewell (in a different way of course.)

The Knicks don't have a lot of options here. After their recent difficulties, any kind of trade will seem like a miracle. Does it make them better? Maybe not. I just know that the two shooting guard lineup wasn't working and changes needed to be made. We all know Houston isn't going anywhere with his contract.

It's very fashionable now to slam Layden for all of the Knicks' problems. My biggest complaint with him is Eisley/Anderson. Otherwise, I think he's done what he could to make the Knicks better
with very limited options.
NYKBocker
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7/23/2003  11:35 AM
While it seems that the Knicks are on the short end of the stick with this trade, I would have to disagree and point out that Spree is getting up in age. He is playing out of position and either Allan or Spree would have to go(Everybody knows the answer to that question).

In KVH we get a natural forward(can play both spots), a perimeter threat and a better rebounder than Spree.

We tend to dwell on the negatives and miss what he can give to us in the long run.

There are so many ways you can hide a SF in defense. They can play zone and hide not just KVH but Allan as well. Assuming we get a defensive center for KT and/or Ward(Ratliff, Keon Clark?). I mean, do you think Kiki, Dantley, Aguirre or dare I say Bernard King were defensive stallworts? Would you want any of them in your team?

You say then that KVH is soft. Well, is the all powerfull K-Mart a soft player since he did not show up against the Spurs?

KVH is a good value trade for an older Spree. I love Spree but his time has passed and I am not sure if we could have gotten any better than this. I would have preferred Tim Thomas but that's just me.

And to Spree...Thank you for the ride! It was fun and never boring.
Knixkik
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7/23/2003  12:05 PM
So it seems at least most of us have agreed that getting Van Horn for Sprewell was the right move and the best deal we could get for him at this time. The next question is what does everyone think about trading Thomas for Keon Clark in the deal? I would do it because Clark is taller, younger, more athletic, and is a shot-blocker and true center. Thomas is a tough player to get rid of though.

My next question is would you prefer Theo Ratliff or Clark? Clark's younger, more athletic, and might be a little more talented, but Theo might be more of a true center and a better overall defender. I think i would trade Thomas for either, but i'm caught between the two.
ICEMAN
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7/23/2003  12:09 PM
ny bocker that is a tired comment on martin and van horn

martin didn't bring it for two games and the spurs won both o htem games. martin had food poiising but lets not go there.

martin carried the nets all playoff not kidd not jefferson but martin, so the nets really don't even beat the spurs a game had martin not play his game.

this is a tired arguement the media has used and reused cause i guy like me doesn't work in the media.

Van horn on the other hand is soft, and has not brought it since his rookie year, what does that have to do Marin, he scored like 2 points and grabbed 2 re's in the eliminating game against detroit.

what does that have to do with martin?

you saying van horn plays with heart?
you listen to Jimmy, But you cant hear Jimmy
necrom33
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7/23/2003  12:17 PM
Posted by ICEMAN:

ny bocker that is a tired comment on martin and van horn

martin didn't bring it for two games and the spurs won both o htem games. martin had food poiising but lets not go there.

martin carried the nets all playoff not kidd not jefferson but martin, so the nets really don't even beat the spurs a game had martin not play his game.

this is a tired arguement the media has used and reused cause i guy like me doesn't work in the media.

Van horn on the other hand is soft, and has not brought it since his rookie year, what does that have to do Marin, he scored like 2 points and grabbed 2 re's in the eliminating game against detroit.

what does that have to do with martin?

you saying van horn plays with heart?

IN the NJ game when Martin 'indirectly' called out KVH, kmart had 35 points against the Lakers. KVH had single digits, if I remember correctly. Last season he pulled the same crap again, getting 2 whole points in the elimination game vs. Detroit. His average dropped from 15ppg to 10ppg. SOP for KVH.

[Edited by - necrom33 on 07/23/2003 12:18:01]
ICEMAN
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7/23/2003  12:17 PM
i going to say this now and remember what i said when it comes down to it

clark, and horn can be good role players on good teams nothing more nothing less.

having either guy asa focal point is a huge no no.

Clark cant iniate any offense, in NY he would be asked to do so, getting him and his contract is a mistake for this team.

Van horn is a good shooter, gets taking out his game and present huge match up problems for the knicks.

at best these are latteral moves if i think it would be better to let sprees contract just run out.

if you are ounting on mcdeyyes holding up and being mcdeyyes i got abridge for you,

the real problem is never address at msg,

we need a franchise player.
you listen to Jimmy, But you cant hear Jimmy
playa2
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7/23/2003  12:17 PM
Who was the pt guard KVH rookie yr? Was it a ball hog like IVO or STARBURY ? He will do well with a pass 1st point guard who doesn't make team mates stand around all the time. KVH along with many other knick players will truly blossom playing under Chaney this yr. Good move SCOTTIE!
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
DefAndReb
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7/23/2003  12:35 PM
Posted by Triggerfinger:

This deal doesnt seem so bad for the Knicks, The Knicks get bigger, add another shooter who will provide a bit more space for Spoon and KT to work the box, they also traded away gettin posted up by a bigger 3 night in & night out... Although Spree is the better defender of the two from a basketball standpoint this makes the Knicks a bit better on D as no longer do the knicks have to rotate all the time on D when posted up by a big 3, which caused lots of nightmare for the Knicks last season. If Dyess knee holds up they look actually very good... I will miss Spree but the face it the Knicks were flawed structuraly and have did thier best to remedy it...

Hoping for the best

Could it be? Someone who actually knows the sport of basketball posting on this forum? When was the last time that happened?

Just kiddin'. There are still a couple guys on the board who talk the sport, they're just getting squeezed out by all the shorties cryin' for Spree.

Bottom line? Good trade. Better SF than before, with no added contract bloat. Team improves, without jeopardizing future flexibility.
tkf
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7/23/2003  12:52 PM
Posted by DefAndReb:
Posted by Triggerfinger:

This deal doesnt seem so bad for the Knicks, The Knicks get bigger, add another shooter who will provide a bit more space for Spoon and KT to work the box, they also traded away gettin posted up by a bigger 3 night in & night out... Although Spree is the better defender of the two from a basketball standpoint this makes the Knicks a bit better on D as no longer do the knicks have to rotate all the time on D when posted up by a big 3, which caused lots of nightmare for the Knicks last season. If Dyess knee holds up they look actually very good... I will miss Spree but the face it the Knicks were flawed structuraly and have did thier best to remedy it...

Hoping for the best

Could it be? Someone who actually knows the sport of basketball posting on this forum? When was the last time that happened?

Just kiddin'. There are still a couple guys on the board who talk the sport, they're just getting squeezed out by all the shorties cryin' for Spree.

Bottom line? Good trade. Better SF than before, with no added contract bloat. Team improves, without jeopardizing future flexibility.

I hope you still feel that way come mid season..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
ICEMAN
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7/23/2003  1:14 PM
playa you just killed your whole point first off our point suck and the bottom of the league in assist

Second keith couldn't flourish with Kidd.

I know you remember him playing with kidd.

and lastly playing with marbury didn't hurt amare.
you listen to Jimmy, But you cant hear Jimmy
ICEMAN
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7/23/2003  1:17 PM
def
spree had to go you right, but i don't see van horn asa improvement at all. lateral move, and a extra year of contract (you said no extra years|they prolly could make the playoffs in the east but they aint going no where and van horn is a role player at best.
you listen to Jimmy, But you cant hear Jimmy
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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7/23/2003  1:18 PM
yeah tkf, they'll change their tune by midseason, and start suggesting players that we can trade KVH for. By then he'll just be another mediocre player that no one wants, even though he's that now. Only LayDown wants him though. There will be even more excuses for yet another bad LayDown move.

All we'll have to do is dig up these threads and rub them in all the pro-KVH posters' faces.

Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
necrom33
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7/23/2003  1:51 PM
Spree was my favorite Knicks player, but I'm not upset cuz he was traded (actually I happy for the guy. He escaped while he could still contribute to another team, unlike Ew.). It's who he was traded FOR that's an issue. If you gonna trade him, you gotta do better than Keith Van Horn, which in all reality, shouldn't be that difficult since KVH sucks.

It's as simple as that.
DefAndReb
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7/23/2003  2:06 PM
Posted by ICEMAN:

def
spree had to go you right, but i don't see van horn asa improvement at all. lateral move, and a extra year of contract (you said no extra years|they prolly could make the playoffs in the east but they aint going no where and van horn is a role player at best.

I agree that KVH is no great shakes, still better at 3 than Spree, but note that I didn't say "no extra years", I said we weren't paying him more (hence the term "bloat"). He gets the same money as Spree, and the one year won't make a big difference, mainly because he'll leave with Houston.
ICEMAN
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7/23/2003  2:23 PM
i personally dont think he is better at three, just my opinion. horn is a four, but he canplay three, but he cant play it well. horn will be ok witht the knicks on some days and others he [prolly be inept, in any event it relly doesnt excite me at all.
you listen to Jimmy, But you cant hear Jimmy
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