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islesfan
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5/27/2008  11:05 PM
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by JohnWallace44:


D’Antoni began his career as head coach for his most loyal club, Milan: here he remained for four seasons, from 1990 to 1994, leading the club to the 1993 Korac Cup. He was then chosen to coach Pallacanestro Treviso (Benetton), another major Italian basketball club. During his tenure (1994–1997), the team captured the Cup of Europe and Coppa Italia (in 1995) and won the domestic league title in 1996-97. Coach D’Antoni's Italian teams went to the playoffs each season, and he was twice voted the league’s Coach of the Year.

LMAO You were talking about the Italian league playoffs?!?

Still waiting for the evidence that he made the playoffs with Marbury. Even though Marbury was traded a few weeks after D'Antoni became head coach, in a season that they went 29-53. Must have been a down year in the western conference for a team to make the playoffs with 29 wins and the 2nd to worst record in the conference.

Mike D'Antoni didn't get to coach NBA players against Italian teams. He coached one group of scrubs against another. And he came out on top. I'd say its champagne worthy.

Wow, so you were talking about the Italian League playoffs.

So you agree, champagne worthy, right?

Don't know, the Italian League playoffs don't matter to me.

But I'm sure you can tell me everything about that League, including who the coach of last year's champion was. Without having to look it up on Google of course.

Isles, you're grasping for straws here. You know what the point is and I shouldn't have to spell the names of obscure Italian coaches and referees for you to get it.

Why not, it's supposed to mean something because it's champagne worthy, right?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
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codeunknown
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5/27/2008  11:09 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by islesfan:


Don't know, the Italian League playoffs don't matter to me.

Is this because coaching is a uniquely American skill? You wouldn't be able to tell from watching the NBA.

No, because like you said, he didn't get to coach NBA players and coaching in the NBA is different.

And how is it so different that his European awards become irrelevant?
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
codeunknown
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5/27/2008  11:12 PM
Posted by islesfan:



Why not, it's supposed to mean something because it's champagne worthy, right?

It is until proven otherwise.

[Edited by - codeunknown on 05-27-2008 11:14 PM]
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
islesfan
Posts: 9999
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Joined: 7/19/2004
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5/27/2008  11:16 PM
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by codeunknown:


How many boards did the immortals - Nowitzki, Diop and Dampier - average for that series?

Phoenix was outrebounded by an average of 7.2 rebounds per game. Nowitzki averaged 15 boards in that series.

And? Like I already said, Nowitzki is a bad matchup for any team, even teams with players above 6-8.

That's a nice stat by itself but I'd like to see it in more of a context. How have the Suns rebounded during D'Antonio's entire time there. It would seem that a team that likes to run and gun and launch 3 pointers would be out of position to rebound more than most teams.

Would it surprise you that during that regular season, the Mavs outrebounded their opponents by 4 rebs a game and the Suns were outrebounded by their opponents by 4 rebs a game. Would it surprise you that every Mike D'Antonio team has on average been outrebounded by their opponents? Regardless of how many players they had above 6-8 in their starting lineup.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
Posts: 9999
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Joined: 7/19/2004
Member: #712
5/27/2008  11:17 PM
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by islesfan:


Don't know, the Italian League playoffs don't matter to me.

Is this because coaching is a uniquely American skill? You wouldn't be able to tell from watching the NBA.

No, because like you said, he didn't get to coach NBA players and coaching in the NBA is different.

And how is it so different that his European awards become irrelevant?

So you think European awards translate to the NBA in what way exactly?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
Posts: 9999
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5/27/2008  11:20 PM
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by islesfan:



Why not, it's supposed to mean something because it's champagne worthy, right?

It is until proven otherwise.

[Edited by - codeunknown on 05-27-2008 11:14 PM]

I'm still trying to figure out what being "champagne worthy" is supposed to mean. Is that like being Sponge Worthy?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
JohnWallace44
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5/27/2008  11:23 PM
Well Isles, coach Popovich got his start as the coach of Pomona-Pitzer... but then, European coaching doesn't translate at all does it?
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
codeunknown
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5/27/2008  11:27 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by codeunknown:


How many boards did the immortals - Nowitzki, Diop and Dampier - average for that series?

Phoenix was outrebounded by an average of 7.2 rebounds per game. Nowitzki averaged 15 boards in that series.

And? Like I already said, Nowitzki is a bad matchup for any team, even teams with players above 6-8.

That's a nice stat by itself but I'd like to see it in more of a context. How have the Suns rebounded during D'Antonio's entire time there. It would seem that a team that likes to run and gun and launch 3 pointers would be out of position to rebound more than most teams.

Would it surprise you that during that regular season, the Mavs outrebounded their opponents by 4 rebs a game and the Suns were outrebounded by their opponents by 4 rebs a game. Would it surprise you that every Mike D'Antonio team has on average been outrebounded by their opponents? Regardless of how many players they had above 6-8 in their starting lineup.

So your grand explanation is that the reason they were outrebounded is because D'Antoni wants them to shoot 3s? Isles, this is not one of your good moments. 3 pointers make for long rebounds and a greater opportunity on the offensive boards, whether taken early or late in the shot clock.

The bottom line remains that D'Antoni's perfect personel couldn't rebound and that looms large as the cause for their loss to Dallas. Having bigger players up front would without question have improved the rebounding deficit and given them a better chance to win. Ignoring the deficiencies, both with rebounding and shot-blocking (which I hope you don't think is overrated), in their players and blaming D'Antoni for some intangible reason is not very convincing.

If anything, D'Antoni's preference for the transition game helped negate the rebounding and shot-blocking advantage of opposing teams. He should be given credit for recognizing that the best chance of success for his imperfect players was to play uptempo.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
codeunknown
Posts: 22615
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5/27/2008  11:28 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by islesfan:



Why not, it's supposed to mean something because it's champagne worthy, right?

It is until proven otherwise.

[Edited by - codeunknown on 05-27-2008 11:14 PM]

I'm still trying to figure out what being "champagne worthy" is supposed to mean.

Try harder.

Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
islesfan
Posts: 9999
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Joined: 7/19/2004
Member: #712
5/27/2008  11:29 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:

Well Isles, coach Popovich got his start as the coach of Pomona-Pitzer... but then, European coaching doesn't translate at all does it?

Oh well that settles it. Coaching in the Italian League is just like coaching in the NBA and any coach that has success over there must obviously have the same kind of success in the NBA.

The logic and reasoning astounds me.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
CrushAlot
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5/27/2008  11:29 PM
Pomona Pitzer is a college in California. Popovich never coached in Europe.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
codeunknown
Posts: 22615
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5/27/2008  11:33 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by JohnWallace44:

Well Isles, coach Popovich got his start as the coach of Pomona-Pitzer... but then, European coaching doesn't translate at all does it?

Oh well that settles it. Coaching in the Italian League is just like coaching in the NBA and any coach that has success over there must obviously have the same kind of success in the NBA.

The logic and reasoning astounds me.

You're astounding everyone with your logic right now. Are Italians dumber than the rest of us? Or is the game so vastly different in Italy that coaching and winning in the Italian league "shouldn't matter"?
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
JohnWallace44
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5/27/2008  11:35 PM
Posted by CrushAlot:

Pomona Pitzer is a college in California. Popovich never coached in Europe.



Haha, I know that bra, but it was a funny argument.

Besides, the Fightin' Stags were a powerhouse with coach Pop at the helm.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
JohnWallace44
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5/27/2008  11:37 PM
Weren't the Knicks considering the CSKA Moscow coach too before MikeD was hired?

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
islesfan
Posts: 9999
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Joined: 7/19/2004
Member: #712
5/27/2008  11:38 PM
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by codeunknown:


How many boards did the immortals - Nowitzki, Diop and Dampier - average for that series?

Phoenix was outrebounded by an average of 7.2 rebounds per game. Nowitzki averaged 15 boards in that series.

And? Like I already said, Nowitzki is a bad matchup for any team, even teams with players above 6-8.

That's a nice stat by itself but I'd like to see it in more of a context. How have the Suns rebounded during D'Antonio's entire time there. It would seem that a team that likes to run and gun and launch 3 pointers would be out of position to rebound more than most teams.

Would it surprise you that during that regular season, the Mavs outrebounded their opponents by 4 rebs a game and the Suns were outrebounded by their opponents by 4 rebs a game. Would it surprise you that every Mike D'Antonio team has on average been outrebounded by their opponents? Regardless of how many players they had above 6-8 in their starting lineup.

So your grand explanation is that the reason they were outrebounded is because D'Antoni wants them to shoot 3s? Isles, this is not one of your good moments. 3 pointers make for long rebounds and a greater opportunity on the offensive boards, whether taken early or late in the shot clock.

The bottom line remains that D'Antoni's perfect personel couldn't rebound and that looms large as the cause for their loss to Dallas. Having bigger players up front would without question have improved the rebounding deficit and given them a better chance to win. Ignoring the deficiencies, both with rebounding and shot-blocking (which I hope you don't think is overrated), in their players and blaming D'Antoni for some intangible reason is not very convincing.

If anything, D'Antoni's preference for the transition game helped negate the rebounding and shot-blocking advantage of opposing teams. He should be given credit for recognizing that the best chance of success for his imperfect players was to play uptempo.

I'm moved that you would consider it grand. You also left out the run and gun part where quick shots are taken which prevents the Suns from being able to block out effectively. That includes quick 3 pt shots. And just for ****s and giggles, I looked it up and Mike D'Antonio's Suns were constantly worse on the offensive glass than the defensive glass.

Since when is an emphasis on rebounding, defense or shotblocking a trait of a "Mike D'Antonio type player"?

"Imperfect players", that's the best way to describe the prototypical "Mike D'Antonio type player". Please don't make it seem like D'Antonio just played the hand that he was dealt in Phoenix and that that wasn't exactly the type of team and players that he wanted.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
nyk4ever
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5/27/2008  11:38 PM
Honestly, if you can't get happy about having two well-respected guys like Walsh and D'Antoni on board with this franchise then maybe it's time to start looking for a new team...
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
islesfan
Posts: 9999
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Joined: 7/19/2004
Member: #712
5/27/2008  11:39 PM
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by islesfan:



Why not, it's supposed to mean something because it's champagne worthy, right?

It is until proven otherwise.

[Edited by - codeunknown on 05-27-2008 11:14 PM]

I'm still trying to figure out what being "champagne worthy" is supposed to mean.

Try harder.

I'm trying really really hard. It still doesn't make sense.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
Posts: 9999
Alba Posts: 37
Joined: 7/19/2004
Member: #712
5/27/2008  11:41 PM
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by JohnWallace44:

Well Isles, coach Popovich got his start as the coach of Pomona-Pitzer... but then, European coaching doesn't translate at all does it?

Oh well that settles it. Coaching in the Italian League is just like coaching in the NBA and any coach that has success over there must obviously have the same kind of success in the NBA.

The logic and reasoning astounds me.

You're astounding everyone with your logic right now. Are Italians dumber than the rest of us? Or is the game so vastly different in Italy that coaching and winning in the Italian league "shouldn't matter"?

If by "shouldn't matter" you mean "champagne worthy", then no.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
JohnWallace44
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5/27/2008  11:45 PM
"Imperfect players", that's the best way to describe the prototypical "Mike D'Antonio type player". Please don't make it seem like D'Antonio just played the hand that he was dealt in Phoenix and that that wasn't exactly the type of team and players that he wanted.

If his players were imperfect then sign me up, because they got within a sniff of the championship going against a stacked conference and a sniff of a championship would be a welcome smell around this team.

And you just have to keep asking, what was the alternative?

There's just no way that you can be angry that we've gotten Mike D and Walsh at this point.

[Edited by - johnwallace44 on 05-28-2008 12:32 AM]
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
islesfan
Posts: 9999
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Joined: 7/19/2004
Member: #712
5/27/2008  11:51 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:
"Imperfect players", that's the best way to describe the prototypical "Mike D'Antonio type player". Please don't make it seem like D'Antonio just played the hand that he was dealt in Phoenix and that that wasn't exactly the type of team and players that he wanted.
[/quote]

If his players were imperfect then sign me up, because they got within a sniff of the championship going against a stacked conference and a sniff of a championship would be a welcome smell around this team.

And you just have to keep asking, what was the alternative?

There's just no way that you can be angry that we've gotten Mike D and Walsh at this point.
[/quote]

I'm not angry, I'm disappointed.

The alternative was to build a team a contender with a system that has proven to win championships.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
No hope...No Joy...

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