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TMS
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5/19/2008  3:14 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

fish, please show some class. i mean they play in the NL for pete's sake. that's like the toughest league...ever!!!









this year might be their year...let's all cross our fingers and wish them luck!!!


ya gotta believe.
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Bonn1997
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5/19/2008  4:26 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Roger at 45 last year seems to be doing better than Pedro.

But why fuss

Mets are the best as demonstrated by their victories this weekend. The all time regular season series is now 35-27 in favor of the Yanks. A few more wins and you guys can rest in peace.

Have the Mets even *had* a pitching prospect since Pulsipher, Issy and Wilson? Oh yea I forgot. Scott Kazmir

HA HA HA HA

Mets are puking money on guys like Pedro, Beltran, Johan, Delgado, and they dont even make the playoffs (well, if the season ended Sep 15 you guys would be champs I am sure)

But you call our GM CASH MAN.

Good one

Mets are best.

I know Cashman's your boyfriend but and you'll defend him under all circumstances but you must not be aware of the team's payroll. He really is Cash-Man. Sure the Mets have some expensive players but Cash-Man is presiding over the most expensive team in the history of professional sports.

I'm not sure why you say "you guys"; I'm certainly no Mets fan. I'm a Yankee fan who hates losing in the 1st round every year. (Well, I may not have to worry about that this year.)

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 05-19-2008 4:28 PM]
fishmike
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5/19/2008  4:52 PM
ahh Bonnie... getting a little snitty arent we? Where do I defend everything Cashman has done? He's thrown plenty of crap on the wall hoping it would stick. Surely there was a turd w/ Clemen's name on it. What your seeing the disolving of Torre's roster and players Torre wanted.

As I mentioned before, the Yanks farm system is loaded and Cashman is fully aware of that. He's looking to establish a young core first, then adding a big name or two to supplement.

Since your wealth of knowledge stems from your ability to search stats on the internet why dont you do some looking into the Yankees farm system and you will see why Ca$hman didnt want to drop two starters and $20mm a year on a guy thats 1-3 in October
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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5/19/2008  7:34 PM
Posted by fishmike:

ahh Bonnie... getting a little snitty arent we? Where do I defend everything Cashman has done? He's thrown plenty of crap on the wall hoping it would stick. Surely there was a turd w/ Clemen's name on it. What your seeing the disolving of Torre's roster and players Torre wanted.

As I mentioned before, the Yanks farm system is loaded and Cashman is fully aware of that. He's looking to establish a young core first, then adding a big name or two to supplement.

Since your wealth of knowledge stems from your ability to search stats on the internet why dont you do some looking into the Yankees farm system and you will see why Ca$hman didnt want to drop two starters and $20mm a year on a guy thats 1-3 in October
Dude if you have had an unlimited budget for the whole decade and all you can claim you've accomplished is getting a few minor leaguers ranked high on moundtalk.com, you should just retire and admit that baseball GMing isn't your talent.

1-3 in October? You can't seriously be relying on that small a sample. You're smarter than that Fish (and I mean that as a compliment). I know you'd never rely on that small a sample if you were a GM because you're smarter than that.
Bonn1997
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5/19/2008  7:44 PM
Ca$hman didnt want to drop two starters and $20mm a year on a guy thats 1-3 in October
Wait a minute...Santana's career post-season ERA is in the 3s. The W-L record tells me simply that he got poor run support (and you're getting desperate with your arguments). Your statement can be more accurately rephrased as "Cashman didn't want to spend money on a guy who got poor run support," which makes no sense.
fishmike
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5/19/2008  9:10 PM
ahh yes... my team didnt help me win. Sorry, sometimes to be great you need to win a game 2 to 1. Smoltz didnt cry about not enough run support when Pettitte beat him 1-0, he said Andy was the better pitcher.

Santana has not been good enoug to win in the postseason. Thats a fact. His ERA is higer in the post season. Thats a fact. He has failed to elevate his game when it counts the most. Some call that choking, not clutch, great in the regular season, etc etc... you call it poor run support. Beckett beat us in game 6 with Fla 2-0. THATS a post season pitcher. Not whaaaaa, my team didnt score enough.

My arguement can be rephrased "Bonn doesnt watch baseball games, just looks at stats."
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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5/19/2008  9:26 PM
Posted by fishmike:

ahh yes... my team didnt help me win. Sorry, sometimes to be great you need to win a game 2 to 1. Smoltz didnt cry about not enough run support when Pettitte beat him 1-0, he said Andy was the better pitcher.

Santana has not been good enoug to win in the postseason. Thats a fact. His ERA is higer in the post season. Thats a fact. He has failed to elevate his game when it counts the most. Some call that choking, not clutch, great in the regular season, etc etc... you call it poor run support. Beckett beat us in game 6 with Fla 2-0. THATS a post season pitcher. Not whaaaaa, my team didnt score enough.

My arguement can be rephrased "Bonn doesnt watch baseball games, just looks at stats."

Maybe you live in a fantasy land but in the real world your run support matters. If you don't appreciate that, then you are the one who doesn't watch games. And if it didn't matter, Cash-man wouldn't have put together the most expensive offensive lineup in the history of the game. (It's sad how little he's gotten out of that lineup but that's another story. Clearly he *thinks* run support for his pitchers matters when he blows money on old veterans.)

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 05-19-2008 9:33 PM]
Bonn1997
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5/19/2008  9:28 PM
And unless I missed it, you still haven't answered Jaydh's and my question about who's writing this website called moundtalk.com. It looks like it's just some random guy.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 05-19-2008 9:30 PM]
Bonn1997
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5/19/2008  9:43 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

And unless I missed it, you still haven't answered Jaydh's and my question about who's writing this website called moundtalk.com. It looks like it's just some random guy.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 05-19-2008 9:30 PM]

I'll accept your argument though that Cashman has put together a good farm system. But you seem to think that that's all that matters in evaluating a GM. He's so bad at making trades and FA signings that he shouldn't be any team's GM. If he's great at spotting talented pitchers for the farm system, demote him to an advanced scout and get a GM who knows how to make trades and sign FAs.
TMS
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5/19/2008  10:29 PM
Bonn, as i recall you expected Cashman to sign ARod and trade for Johan Santana & Mark Texeiria & still have the assets left over in the farm system to build a team for the future... i'd like to know how you expect that to have happened in the real world when both the Twins & the Rangers/Braves would have demanded every one of our top prospects to get those deals done & the combined dollars you would have tied up in those 3 players alone would have amounted to about $500 million dollars longterm at the very least (& that's not even counting guys like Mariano, Jorge who just signed big longterm extensions & Derek Jeter who'll be looking for a lucrative extension in 2 years himself).

i know you think the Yankees have an unlimited budget but that's just not the case... if you think even the Steinbrenners would be willing to shell out over $300 million in combined salary every year with many millions more in luxury tax being paid to small market teams they're competing against, you're just not thinking in realistic terms here... even the Yankees have a limit, as was demonstrated by their unwillingness to deal for Johan over the offseason.

next season is the time for the Yankees to spend big bucks as there will be a ton of salary coming off the books in Giambi, Abreu, Moose, Andy & Matsui... Mark Texeiria & CC Sabathia will be high on their wishlist to replace some of those guys on the payroll, & it won't entail having to give up our top prospects to get them either the way it would have if we'd have traded for Johan.
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TMS
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5/19/2008  10:49 PM
again, i'll repeat at some point you have to hold the players themselves accountable... neither Torre nor Cashman were responsible for ARod's perpetual choking in the playoffs or Chien Ming Wang's complete collapse last season in the postseason, unless you guys are of the notion neither 1 of those guys belong on our team... everyone gets a share of accountability when the team fails... that's why they call it a team sport... as i recall Derek Jeter & Jorge Posada didn't do much in a few of the past postseasons either & Mariano Rivera choked away a championship in '01 & a couple more games in the '04 ALCS... was that Cashman's fault too? just curious.

hey, i forgot to add Aaron Boone's name to the list of Cashman acquisitions... at least he gave us all 1 of the happiest moments of any Yankee fans' life when he crushed that HR off Wakefield in game 7 of the '03 ALCS... personally i cherish that memory almost as much as any other WS winning moment... Boone deserves the credit for stepping up but you also gotta give some credit to the guy who brought him here to begin with, no? doesn't it work the opposite way when players fail in your minds? (yeah he was crap the rest of that postseason but man, you gotta admit that was as sweet as it gets if you're a Yankee fan)

Aaron Bleepin' Boone!!! (God, i still get goosebumps)



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Bonn1997
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5/19/2008  11:32 PM
Posted by TMS:

Bonn, as i recall you expected Cashman to sign ARod and trade for Johan Santana & Mark Texeiria & still have the assets left over in the farm system to build a team for the future... i'd like to know how you expect that to have happened in the real world when both the Twins & the Rangers/Braves would have demanded every one of our top prospects to get those deals done & the combined dollars you would have tied up in those 3 players alone would have amounted to about $500 million dollars longterm at the very least (& that's not even counting guys like Mariano, Jorge who just signed big longterm extensions & Derek Jeter who'll be looking for a lucrative extension in 2 years himself).

i know you think the Yankees have an unlimited budget but that's just not the case... if you think even the Steinbrenners would be willing to shell out over $300 million in combined salary every year with many millions more in luxury tax being paid to small market teams they're competing against, you're just not thinking in realistic terms here... even the Yankees have a limit, as was demonstrated by their unwillingness to deal for Johan over the offseason.

next season is the time for the Yankees to spend big bucks as there will be a ton of salary coming off the books in Giambi, Abreu, Moose, Andy & Matsui... Mark Texeiria & CC Sabathia will be high on their wishlist to replace some of those guys on the payroll, & it won't entail having to give up our top prospects to get them either the way it would have if we'd have traded for Johan.

I already said I wanted the Yankees to sign Texiera when he was an FA (not trade for him last off-season). I hope you're right that this off-season will be a big one for the Yankees. They've come up short for a long time now.
TMS
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5/20/2008  7:27 PM
Hank was recently quoted in the papers saying as much Bonn... don't worry, there will be major changes on the horizon if the Yankees fail to make the playoffs this year... they ain't going into the Innaugural season at the new ballpark w/a team that's not built to win, i think it's fair to assume that much.

anyway just wanted to add a few points to the discussion here... i remember we let go of the "can't miss blue chip prospect" Brandon Claussen for Aaron Boone & some Yankee fans were up in arms over it... i wonder what ol' Brandon's up to these days?

if there were a couple moves i really wish Cashman had never made & i think most Yankee fans would agree that there were many questions surrounding the decision to make them at the time they were made, they were the following:

trading Ted Lilly for Jeff Weaver
signing Jaret Wright
signing Mike Mussina to his 2 year extension
signing LaTroy Hawkins

other moves that haven't worked out like signing Giambi, Pavano, Contreras, Karsay, Farnsworth, Damon & Rocket last year & trading Jeff Weaver for Kevin Brown were widely hailed as good moves to make when he made them by the majority of Yankee fans & critics alike... i have a hard time putting all the blame on his shoulders when those moves went awry... no one can really predict how a trade or FA signing will work out, u just have to base them on how much sense it makes for your ballclub at the time you make it & hope for the best.

he's also responsible for the acquisition of guys who have helped this team win lots of ballgames like Matsui, Moose (1st contract), ARod, Randy Johnson, Robin Ventura, Tanyon Sturtze, Paul Quantrill, Tom Gordon & Abreu, & while none of those moves have netted us any championships they were all good moves to make at the time they were made... i've been a Moose critic for a while but even i can't say it was a dumb decision to sign the guy when they did the first time around.

hey, i almost forgot the season saviors in '05, Aaron Small & Shawn Chacon... we miss out on the playoffs altogether that year if Cashman doesn't make the trades for those guys... & who can forget good ol' Big Rube in '04 who got off a huge HR for us in the postseason vs. the Twins that year in ALDS game 4.

RUUUUUUUBE!!!

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5/20/2008  7:53 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Have the Mets even *had* a pitching prospect since Pulsipher, Issy and Wilson? Oh yea I forgot. Scott Kazmir

pelfrey,humber,guerra,mulvey...to name a few.
jaydh
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5/20/2008  8:00 PM
Posted by TMS:

Bonn, as i recall you expected Cashman to sign ARod and trade for Johan Santana & Mark Texeiria & still have the assets left over in the farm system to build a team for the future... i'd like to know how you expect that to have happened in the real world when both the Twins & the Rangers/Braves would have demanded every one of our top prospects to get those deals done ....

simple. the yanks will always have a stocked system no matter where they pick because they are one of the few that ignore the slotting system(i wish the mets did, hopefully they will this year).

TMS
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5/21/2008  1:08 AM
(continued discussion from the "Knicks got "dix'ed" - pick #6" thread:)
Posted by majorleads:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by majorleads:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by majorleads:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by majorleads:

And WTF is Latroy Hawkins throwing at Adam Jones head?!?!?!?!?

Jeter got plunked earlier in the game on an up & in pitch by Cabrera & had to be taken for X-Rays... it wasn't a pitch at his head but if you missed it Hank made it clear at the beginning of the season the Yankees wouldn't stand for their star players getting plunked anymore whether it's intentional or not... i don't agree w/throwing at a guy's head tho... that's uncalled for.

I heard Jeter got plunked but you can't be throwing at someones head in retaliation. I'm surprised this didn't turn into a huge brawl. O's must be bigger pussies than Willie Randolph. God damn does he suck.

the benches did clear & the bullpen guys ran in from both sides, but nothing happened... i almost wish a brawl had broken out... anything to wake up this comatose team at this point.

Yeah I saw that. Yankees and Mets must be sharing the same hospital bed. Both our teams have these old f!ucking geezers that need to just get lost. I almost wish the Yankees swept the Mets this weekend so Willie would have been shown the door. I use to like him but that was inexcusable that he didn't get tossed out of the game on Degado's "HR."

well, on the bright side this is likely the final year for Giambi, Moose, Pettitte, Farnsworth, Hawkins & Abreu... when do Delgado, Alou, Duque, Wagner, Easley, Anderson, Pedro & Schoenweiss expire?

Delgado and Alou expire after this season. (Thank God) I like Alou, but you know he'll go down again with bruised nuts. Duque? Is he even on the Mets? Wagner (2 years left) has actually been lights out this season and the best pitcher on the Mets. (shocking!) Anderson and Easley are bench guys who I don't really have a problem with. I HATE Luis Castillo and want him gone ASAP. Horrible signing 4 years for that gimp. I want Orlando Hudson (FA) next season. Just pay some team to take gimpy. Pedro expires after this season. I'd resign him he comes back healthy for the rest of this season but only to an incentive laden contract. Schoenweiss has pitched ok this season and hasn't been a problem. Heilman sucks get rid of him. And get rid of Willie. Ollie Perez needs to go too. He'll want too much money. (Borass is his agent)

You guys need to get Damons lame ass out of the outfield ASAP. He can't throw!

Oh and I hate Beltran now too. But I'd keep him because there are no other options for CF and nobody is taking his contract.



Damon's here for another year & there aren't many teams lining up to take him off our hands... we'll have to deal w/him on the roster... personally i really wish they would call up a kid like Brett Gardner to play LF cuz Damon doesn't have the legs to track down balls anymore much less the arm to throw anyone out... Giambi's doing a decent enough job defensively at 1B this season, it's his bat that's been killing us oddly enough (though he's been hitting for power pretty well this year compared to last)... i hope we land Texieria to play 1B for us next season when Giambi's finally gone... Matsui's been solid all year & i wouldn't mind bringing him back on a 2 yr extension... Abreu's gotta go IMO & they gotta give kids like Tabata & Austin Jackson a chance to see what they got before they target a bigname in a trade, especially if they can land Mark Tex via free agency to make up for the lost offense.

[Edited by - TMS on 05-20-2008 10:12 PM]
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TMS
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5/21/2008  1:09 AM
btw, i wouldn't mind if the Yankees took Beltran's contract off your hands but i don't see the Mets dealing such a high profile player to their crosstown rivals.
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majorleads
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5/21/2008  1:24 AM
Posted by TMS:

(continued discussion from the "Knicks got "dix'ed" - pick #6" thread:)
Posted by majorleads:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by majorleads:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by majorleads:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by majorleads:

And WTF is Latroy Hawkins throwing at Adam Jones head?!?!?!?!?

Jeter got plunked earlier in the game on an up & in pitch by Cabrera & had to be taken for X-Rays... it wasn't a pitch at his head but if you missed it Hank made it clear at the beginning of the season the Yankees wouldn't stand for their star players getting plunked anymore whether it's intentional or not... i don't agree w/throwing at a guy's head tho... that's uncalled for.

I heard Jeter got plunked but you can't be throwing at someones head in retaliation. I'm surprised this didn't turn into a huge brawl. O's must be bigger pussies than Willie Randolph. God damn does he suck.

the benches did clear & the bullpen guys ran in from both sides, but nothing happened... i almost wish a brawl had broken out... anything to wake up this comatose team at this point.

Yeah I saw that. Yankees and Mets must be sharing the same hospital bed. Both our teams have these old f!ucking geezers that need to just get lost. I almost wish the Yankees swept the Mets this weekend so Willie would have been shown the door. I use to like him but that was inexcusable that he didn't get tossed out of the game on Degado's "HR."

well, on the bright side this is likely the final year for Giambi, Moose, Pettitte, Farnsworth, Hawkins & Abreu... when do Delgado, Alou, Duque, Wagner, Easley, Anderson, Pedro & Schoenweiss expire?

Delgado and Alou expire after this season. (Thank God) I like Alou, but you know he'll go down again with bruised nuts. Duque? Is he even on the Mets? Wagner (2 years left) has actually been lights out this season and the best pitcher on the Mets. (shocking!) Anderson and Easley are bench guys who I don't really have a problem with. I HATE Luis Castillo and want him gone ASAP. Horrible signing 4 years for that gimp. I want Orlando Hudson (FA) next season. Just pay some team to take gimpy. Pedro expires after this season. I'd resign him he comes back healthy for the rest of this season but only to an incentive laden contract. Schoenweiss has pitched ok this season and hasn't been a problem. Heilman sucks get rid of him. And get rid of Willie. Ollie Perez needs to go too. He'll want too much money. (Borass is his agent)

You guys need to get Damons lame ass out of the outfield ASAP. He can't throw!

Oh and I hate Beltran now too. But I'd keep him because there are no other options for CF and nobody is taking his contract.



Damon's here for another year & there aren't many teams lining up to take him off our hands... we'll have to deal w/him on the roster... personally i really wish they would call up a kid like Brett Gardner to play LF cuz Damon doesn't have the legs to track down balls anymore much less the arm to throw anyone out... Giambi's doing a decent enough job defensively at 1B this season, it's his bat that's been killing us oddly enough (though he's been hitting for power pretty well this year compared to last)... i hope we land Texieria to play 1B for us next season when Giambi's finally gone... Matsui's been solid all year & i wouldn't mind bringing him back on a 2 yr extension... Abreu's gotta go IMO & they gotta give kids like Tabata & Austin Jackson a chance to see what they got before they target a bigname in a trade, especially if they can land Mark Tex via free agency to make up for the lost offense.

[Edited by - TMS on 05-20-2008 10:12 PM]

Yeah I think you guys will get Teixeira because we're certainly not going to match the money plus, we do have some decent 1st base prospects in the minors who i would like to give a shot to right now.

I think you guys will be fine next season after some retooling but you know how it goes with the kids, patience is key. Also we need to retool and get rid of some of these too laid back players.

And I would definitely trade you Beltran for some good prospects. He can be so great at times, but other times he just disappears for long stretches. Defense would be great in Yankee Stadium, but you have Melky who made that nice catch to rob Church the other day. CF is not really a priority for you but I suppose you could pretty much move Melky anywhere and he'd be good defensively. I wouldn't move Beltran to left or right because he seems like a guy who couldn't function if he played anything other than CF. Dude is an enigma.

My fear is that since we're moving into a new park, Wilpon might want to spend even more money on some overrated free agent. I would just rather bring up some kids and go that route. The only FA I would sign is Hudson and I'd put kids at 1b and lf.

Hughes getting injured really sucks for you guys. I actually REALLY like him, probably only player on the Yankees I like. ha ha Kennedy is no great shakes. Probably should have dealt him and Melky for Santana. (if Minny would have accepted that)
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TMS
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5/21/2008  1:43 AM
Minny was demanding Hughes & Kennedy from us... it was an untenable deal from our perspective... i can't imagine they woulda settled for anything less than Hughes & Melky... i'm not broken up over the fact we passed on Johan, though i did think he woulda been awesome as a Yankee... CC Sabathia will be available & i'm sure there will be other bigname FA pitchers on the market too... if we don't land CC i would be more than happy to sign someone like AJ Burnett & then shore up our bullpen with guys like Dennys Reyes & Dan Wheeler to fill our setup men duties & move Joba to the starting rotation.
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5/21/2008  1:54 AM
Posted by TMS:

Minny was demanding Hughes & Kennedy from us... it was an untenable deal from our perspective... i can't imagine they woulda settled for anything less than Hughes & Melky... i'm not broken up over the fact we passed on Johan, though i did think he woulda been awesome as a Yankee... CC Sabathia will be available & i'm sure there will be other bigname FA pitchers on the market too... if we don't land CC i would be more than happy to sign someone like AJ Burnett & then shore up our bullpen with guys like Dennys Reyes & Dan Wheeler to fill our setup men duties & move Joba to the starting rotation.

Well even though you're losing a lot of salary, I doubt you go after Teixeira and Sabathia. That is a TON of money. Well now that I think about it, you probably have more than enough to sign both next season. Burnett? Too much of an injury risk if you're going to still have Hughes and Kennedy in the rotation. Also Joba is unproven at the ML level as a starter. I'm surprised you would consider Burnett.

As for Johan, he's been good for us, not lights out but good. I'm fine with that and hope he can get a little bit better. And I think you probably could have gotten Johan without giving up Hughes. Something like Kennedy, Melky and a prospect with a lot of upside. It's not like you couldn't replace those 3.
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