Posted by GKFv2:

Yay? Should he get a medal?

What he said is flat out wrong in my opinion. Barbosa and Diaw are not worth a $20 million expiring contract. Not worth it. Cap space is key. This guy says something ridiculous like "we are never getting them anyway." How is that insight? Nobody knows what will happen in 2 years. Kobe almost left the Lakers for the Clippers and basically demanded to be dealt last summer before they got him Gasol. Anyone in the league can go anywhere and if LeBron keeps failing with Cleveland he would certainly be enticed to come play in New York with a guy like D'Antoni.

The key is what you do with the time from now till then. Getting those 2 guys or any role players whose contracts are gargantuan and almost unmovable isn't part of that plan. Or at least I hope it isn't.

You build a team by having some sort of flexibility in the cap so you can maneuver around. You also use the draft as a resource. To continue to trade to win now or just trade for the sake of trading so we can put together a mediocre team and then fall back down the bottomless pit again is pointless. It's about long term. a move like that with Marbury will definitely be a short term goal.

Posted by GKFv2:

Posted by arkrud:

Posted by GKFv2:

Yay? Should he get a medal?

What he said is flat out wrong in my opinion. Barbosa and Diaw are not worth a $20 million expiring contract. Not worth it. Cap space is key. This guy says something ridiculous like "we are never getting them anyway." How is that insight? Nobody knows what will happen in 2 years. Kobe almost left the Lakers for the Clippers and basically demanded to be dealt last summer before they got him Gasol. Anyone in the league can go anywhere and if LeBron keeps failing with Cleveland he would certainly be enticed to come play in New York with a guy like D'Antoni.

The key is what you do with the time from now till then. Getting those 2 guys or any role players whose contracts are gargantuan and almost unmovable isn't part of that plan. Or at least I hope it isn't.

You build a team by having some sort of flexibility in the cap so you can maneuver around. You also use the draft as a resource. To continue to trade to win now or just trade for the sake of trading so we can put together a mediocre team and then fall back down the bottomless pit again is pointless. It's about long term. a move like that with Marbury will definitely be a short term goal.

You are a dreamer GKF. In 2 years with your plan no player in right mind will go to NY Knicks with NY Nets in town.
James will be the first to join the Nets.
Knicks are in need to build back some identity as quickly as possible. It is now or never.




[Edited by - arkrud on 05-13-2008 1:24 PM]

What are you talking about? so your solution to "now" is dealing exploring deals for role players. We suck and we have sucked at doing that for years. It's time to end that trend. The time isn't now. The time is for the future. The time WAS now for the 2 previous idiots that were in MSG and it went to ****. Unless you are getting KG and Allen, the time is never now.

Posted by fishmike:

Posted by GKFv2:

Yay? Should he get a medal?

What he said is flat out wrong in my opinion. Barbosa and Diaw are not worth a $20 million expiring contract. Not worth it. Cap space is key. This guy says something ridiculous like "we are never getting them anyway." How is that insight? Nobody knows what will happen in 2 years. Kobe almost left the Lakers for the Clippers and basically demanded to be dealt last summer before they got him Gasol. Anyone in the league can go anywhere and if LeBron keeps failing with Cleveland he would certainly be enticed to come play in New York with a guy like D'Antoni.

The key is what you do with the time from now till then. Getting those 2 guys or any role players whose contracts are gargantuan and almost unmovable isn't part of that plan. Or at least I hope it isn't.

You build a team by having some sort of flexibility in the cap so you can maneuver around. You also use the draft as a resource. To continue to trade to win now or just trade for the sake of trading so we can put together a mediocre team and then fall back down the bottomless pit again is pointless. It's about long term. a move like that with Marbury will definitely be a short term goal.

Did Boston use cap space? Did Detriot when they were in the finals back to back?

I have ALWAYS been in favor of cap FLEXIBILITY, always been in favor of adding cost smart players. $5mm a year for a guard that scores 15ppg and shoots 47% is one of the better contract in the NBA. Diaw is more of a wildcard because he's paid more and had been more erractic, but he has proven to shoot a very high % and have a very diverse game.

GF... please give me examples of cap space teams that have won titles or been elite as you hope to become.

I am open to anyone's thoughts.. honestly, but tell me why or give me an example of it happening before. Please... since I will "never learn" teach me.

This team isnt getting under the cap so Wade or Lebron can come here. Wake up people.. please

What examples would I give when your only source of explanation is "wake up people, please." This is just an opinion, not a fact.

I believe Detroit got Chauncey in free agency but you're using a team with an excellent GM who made excellent trades and had a nice cap to begin with.

Boston gave up on rebuilding for KG and Allen and a 2 year window. We wont get that caliber thru a trade.

The team has been failing with every expiring contract deal they have been making. That's the bottom line. You don't keep sticking to the same thing that isn't working.

[Edited by - gkfv2 on 05-13-2008 2:00 PM]

Posted by GKFv2:

Posted by fishmike:

Posted by GKFv2:

Yay? Should he get a medal?

What he said is flat out wrong in my opinion. Barbosa and Diaw are not worth a $20 million expiring contract. Not worth it. Cap space is key. This guy says something ridiculous like "we are never getting them anyway." How is that insight? Nobody knows what will happen in 2 years. Kobe almost left the Lakers for the Clippers and basically demanded to be dealt last summer before they got him Gasol. Anyone in the league can go anywhere and if LeBron keeps failing with Cleveland he would certainly be enticed to come play in New York with a guy like D'Antoni.

The key is what you do with the time from now till then. Getting those 2 guys or any role players whose contracts are gargantuan and almost unmovable isn't part of that plan. Or at least I hope it isn't.

You build a team by having some sort of flexibility in the cap so you can maneuver around. You also use the draft as a resource. To continue to trade to win now or just trade for the sake of trading so we can put together a mediocre team and then fall back down the bottomless pit again is pointless. It's about long term. a move like that with Marbury will definitely be a short term goal.

Did Boston use cap space? Did Detriot when they were in the finals back to back?

I have ALWAYS been in favor of cap FLEXIBILITY, always been in favor of adding cost smart players. $5mm a year for a guard that scores 15ppg and shoots 47% is one of the better contract in the NBA. Diaw is more of a wildcard because he's paid more and had been more erractic, but he has proven to shoot a very high % and have a very diverse game.

GF... please give me examples of cap space teams that have won titles or been elite as you hope to become.

I am open to anyone's thoughts.. honestly, but tell me why or give me an example of it happening before. Please... since I will "never learn" teach me.

This team isnt getting under the cap so Wade or Lebron can come here. Wake up people.. please

What examples would I give when your only source of explanation is "wake up people, please." This is just an opinion, not a fact.

I believe Detroit got Chauncey in free agency but you're using a team with an excellent GM who made excellent trades and had a nice cap to begin with.

Boston gave up on rebuilding for KG and Allen and a 2 year window. We wont get that caliber thru a trade.

The team has been failing with every expiring contract deal they have been making. That's the bottom line. You don't keep sticking to the same thing that isn't working.

[Edited by - gkfv2 on 05-13-2008 2:00 PM]

I am glad you mentioned Billups. He was signed using their MLE. Sheed was aquired with an expiring contract. Prince with a late draft pick. Rip Hamilton via trade. Garnett was traded because Boston did exactly what I am talking about, they improved their roster and stockpiled as many young good players as they could.

The reason *OUR* trades using expiring contracts have been bad is because of the guy making them, not the philosophy in general. Because our roster is full of long term deals cap space as a goal simply doesnt apply to our situation.

As for the "wake up people" comment I mean that. NO superstar FA has left their team in this current CBA. There have been sign and trades like Grant Hill. There have been some 2nd tier players signed like Arenas, McGrady and Lamar Odom. All good players, but to get that cap space those teams were already close.. we are not. And none of those players are franchise players.

I am saying two things:
1) The Knicks need to first improve their roster from top to bottom. We have a log jam at every position. What we need is better players. So long as the contracts are reasonable in relation to that player's performance than we should look to improve our roster.

2) that Diaw and Barbosa are NOT role players, they are core players. They are starters or guys that play starter minutes and perform and contribute accordingly. Both players are superior to anything we have now at guard (47% FGs, lighting quick, lots of steals) or SF/PF shoots 50%, great passer, versatile everywhere on the floor.

I am not saying Diaw and Barbosa are turning our team around, only that they make us better, they are young and Barbosa is a bargain. Diaw's contract is a risk.. I admit that.

Posted by bitty41:

Okay I'm entirely too lazy to the read through this whole thread but here's my take on the whole cap situation.

If you have a player set in your sights for the upcoming summer then obvisously you clear out as much cap as possible and keep your fingers crossed that the player signs with your organization.

In general terms I think cap space is a bit overrated by fans. Its not the end all be all and cap space does not always equate to a good team down the road. Rebuilding at times is necessary but I don't have problem with going all out (see Boston) and building a team overnight.

I see some organizations that have had multiple lotto picks, cap space, and they still are barely competing and in some cases not even making the playoffs.

So at the end of the day the biggest key to any of this is being able to evaluate talent properly and building a team of players that have, the great mix of chemistry and talent.

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by nyk4ever:

Mitch Lawrence... lol.

Here are the rules

Believe we're trading for Ford or Calderon articles but debunk we're trading for Barbosa or Diaw articles.

Uhhh, I never commented on those trades so yeah, go find someone else.

Dude I'm just making sure everyone understands the parameters, rules, regulations, laws, commands, orders, etc etc etc