Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by tkf:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by Bippity10:

I don't like Jamal's game and do not like him as a player but...........

I do not let my personal feelings get in the way of being fair to players. Some feel he would be a bumb no matter what his situation is. That's fine and I do not disparage that opinion, but I think differently. Never in his career has he shown to be a Ricky Davis or anyone like this. Never in his career has he shown that he will not listen to a coach. And players that listen to coaches tend to turn out to be pretty good given the right situation.

Now I do not deny that after 8 years it may be too late for this guy to really learn the game but that doesn't mean he can't help the right team. I think it's just a shame he never had a coach that wasn't enamored with his scoring ability and actually made him learn the game. The one he did have was immediately fired.

You guys took the Ricky Davis slant the wrong way. I brought him up to show Ricky being a talented player if given a better situation and coaching would/could prove himself a productive and useful player who wouldn't hinder winning. Funny thing is Danny Ainge admitted just two weeks ago he almost traded Paul Pierce in 2005 to Portland and Ricky Davis would have remained on the team. Before Danny Ainge pulled the trigger on trading for Ricky Davis he consulted with Paul first. Paul gave him the ok because he said Ricky is a great guy and was one of the players he spent time in the summer working out with in Los Angeles and Las Vegas. Ricky Davis did the stupid basketball act back in 2001-2002 and hasn't been in any trouble ever in the league. He has great respect amongst the players in the league, participating in a couple summer charity events every summer invited by such players and has his own Foundation RickyDavis31.com. I think Jamal is a more likable guy but this wasn't what we were discussing. It was about if we should trade Jamal.... turned into taking players who are talented out of bad environments and/or surrounding them by more stable ones, wondering if they could contribute more or change a team towards a winning culture. I'm not necessarily doubting if Jamal would succeed either, I'd rather him go and would wish him the best being able to do so for another team.

Here are other examples what about Rasheed Wallace? What about Stephen Jackson? What about Jerry Stackhouse? What about Rafer Alston? What about Tim Thomas? What about Antoine Walker? What about Vince Carter? What about Gary Payton? What about Nick Van Excel? What about Baron Davis? What about Jason Kidd? What about Vernon Maxwell? What about Bonzi Wells?

Another note before Jamal became a Knick the majority of the fan base didn't want him on our team. I ask Why????? We know why! Jamal was still this likable guy with huge/tons of upside correct? Matter of fact one of the reasons he was traded by the Bulls was very similar to the Ricky Davis/Paul Pierce situation. Jamal would go hard in practice at Kirk Hinrich and constantly show him up in front of his teammates. He even gave shots in the media saying the reason he had to leave because mgmt made it personal, almost implying as if it was a black or white/racial issue. Go to any Bulls board and ask them about their relationship.

So what it gets down to Jamal is currently wearing a Knick uniform and he's a good guy. That's reasonable but it doesn't excuse how his play has hurt this basketball team and we should without question look to trade him this off-season while his value may be relatively high.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 03-20-2008 10:32 AM]

One thing I noticed is that players usually don't talk bad about other players. I am sure you can get a hundred quotes from players talking about how much they respect marbury... ricky may be a decent person off the court, but on the court is where I think a lot of his problems occur... I mean how many teams has he been on? I listed them, ricky has had like 6 stops in what, 8or 9 seasons? were all of those stops bad places in which he couldn't thrive? I mean that is a good question to ask yourself.... Does ricky davis hinder a team from winning? I don't know, but does he help teams win? I tend to think he doesn't...

Guys do change as they get older, maybe pierce welcomed ricky back now because he(ricky) realizes that he is no longer a top offensive option for a team and is willing to now take a back seat. Sometimes guys are forced to change, I much rather have the guy who is willing to change.... jamal seems like a guy willing to change... this is why I hold out some hope for him..

Didn't you make a thread the other day suggesting either Jamal or Nate has to go? Was it a reactionary emotional thread?

what does that have to do with what we are talking about here? really it is irrelevant.. I think either one has to go. I like both guys, but going forward I don't think we need both... Is this question you are asking reactionary or emotional....?

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by tkf:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by tkf:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by Bippity10:

I don't like Jamal's game and do not like him as a player but...........

I do not let my personal feelings get in the way of being fair to players. Some feel he would be a bumb no matter what his situation is. That's fine and I do not disparage that opinion, but I think differently. Never in his career has he shown to be a Ricky Davis or anyone like this. Never in his career has he shown that he will not listen to a coach. And players that listen to coaches tend to turn out to be pretty good given the right situation.

Now I do not deny that after 8 years it may be too late for this guy to really learn the game but that doesn't mean he can't help the right team. I think it's just a shame he never had a coach that wasn't enamored with his scoring ability and actually made him learn the game. The one he did have was immediately fired.

You guys took the Ricky Davis slant the wrong way. I brought him up to show Ricky being a talented player if given a better situation and coaching would/could prove himself a productive and useful player who wouldn't hinder winning. Funny thing is Danny Ainge admitted just two weeks ago he almost traded Paul Pierce in 2005 to Portland and Ricky Davis would have remained on the team. Before Danny Ainge pulled the trigger on trading for Ricky Davis he consulted with Paul first. Paul gave him the ok because he said Ricky is a great guy and was one of the players he spent time in the summer working out with in Los Angeles and Las Vegas. Ricky Davis did the stupid basketball act back in 2001-2002 and hasn't been in any trouble ever in the league. He has great respect amongst the players in the league, participating in a couple summer charity events every summer invited by such players and has his own Foundation RickyDavis31.com. I think Jamal is a more likable guy but this wasn't what we were discussing. It was about if we should trade Jamal.... turned into taking players who are talented out of bad environments and/or surrounding them by more stable ones, wondering if they could contribute more or change a team towards a winning culture. I'm not necessarily doubting if Jamal would succeed either, I'd rather him go and would wish him the best being able to do so for another team.

Here are other examples what about Rasheed Wallace? What about Stephen Jackson? What about Jerry Stackhouse? What about Rafer Alston? What about Tim Thomas? What about Antoine Walker? What about Vince Carter? What about Gary Payton? What about Nick Van Excel? What about Baron Davis? What about Jason Kidd? What about Vernon Maxwell? What about Bonzi Wells?

Another note before Jamal became a Knick the majority of the fan base didn't want him on our team. I ask Why????? We know why! Jamal was still this likable guy with huge/tons of upside correct? Matter of fact one of the reasons he was traded by the Bulls was very similar to the Ricky Davis/Paul Pierce situation. Jamal would go hard in practice at Kirk Hinrich and constantly show him up in front of his teammates. He even gave shots in the media saying the reason he had to leave because mgmt made it personal, almost implying as if it was a black or white/racial issue. Go to any Bulls board and ask them about their relationship.

So what it gets down to Jamal is currently wearing a Knick uniform and he's a good guy. That's reasonable but it doesn't excuse how his play has hurt this basketball team and we should without question look to trade him this off-season while his value may be relatively high.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 03-20-2008 10:32 AM]

One thing I noticed is that players usually don't talk bad about other players. I am sure you can get a hundred quotes from players talking about how much they respect marbury... ricky may be a decent person off the court, but on the court is where I think a lot of his problems occur... I mean how many teams has he been on? I listed them, ricky has had like 6 stops in what, 8or 9 seasons? were all of those stops bad places in which he couldn't thrive? I mean that is a good question to ask yourself.... Does ricky davis hinder a team from winning? I don't know, but does he help teams win? I tend to think he doesn't...

Guys do change as they get older, maybe pierce welcomed ricky back now because he(ricky) realizes that he is no longer a top offensive option for a team and is willing to now take a back seat. Sometimes guys are forced to change, I much rather have the guy who is willing to change.... jamal seems like a guy willing to change... this is why I hold out some hope for him..

Didn't you make a thread the other day suggesting either Jamal or Nate has to go? Was it a reactionary emotional thread?

what does that have to do with what we are talking about here? really it is irrelevant.. I think either one has to go. I like both guys, but going forward I don't think we need both... Is this question you are asking reactionary or emotional....?

Why would either have to go if they both can contribute in an ideal environment? You listed each one in this thread as a preference to keep but the other day said one must go. This is especially strange considering both are having career yrs.

I think both are good 6th men. I don't see the need or advantage of having both come off the bench and basically doing the same thing. I rather keep 1 and get a bigger more defensive oriented guard to pair with the other off the bench... If we have no choice but to start jamal at SG, then I could keep both.. I just don't want to see both of them on the floor together for extended minutes..

Posted by BasketballJones:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by Bippity10:

Dude, you are like a Giant Buzz Kill.

Dude, you are like a Giant Buzz Kill.

You dudes are harshing my mellow.

You need to give some of that to True. He needs it pretty bad.

Jones: Make sure it's the good stuff