calderon: 15/6 and 4 To's.....

5-15 from the field..

well played game by Jamal, Zach & D Lee... i think my point about people ragging on our players no matter if they play well or not has been well demonstrated on this thread... on a night where 1 of our guys puts up 43 points he still gets called a ****ty piece of crap... 1 of our most hated players completely outplays All world player Chris Bosh, & not a word said by anyone about it... i have just as much disdain for the guy as anyone else around here, but you have to give him his due for playing hard tonight... not that any of this matters much, we're still fugged any way you look at it, but for 1 night at least the team played a good game.

u know i'm realistic about this team's situation, & i'm not looking to generate any positive discussion... just making a point about the tendency for guys to take note of good games by players on other teams & to overlook those played by our own guys.

Why are calderons mouth always purple???? Is he stick or does he eat grape icys before every game???

Posted by tkf:

Posted by TMS:

u know i'm realistic about this team's situation, & i'm not looking to generate any positive discussion... just making a point about the tendency for guys to take note of good games by players on other teams & to overlook those played by our own guys.

I agree, but the thing is, if you say anything good about the knicks, you are a homer and not a true knick fan... and I agree, zach took it to bosh and crawford dominated both parker and calderon... no problem..

the thing is, we all know that the next game, zach if he doesn't get his shots will be looking to pick a fight with someone else, and if jamal is isn't hot, the knicks will fold and probably get blown out. we have seen this way too many times, to get optomistic about anything..right now, I want to play out the string, fire Isiah and get derrick rose..

[Edited by - tkf on 23-02-2008 11:45 AM]

well stand up for your homer self then. if you’ve got a good point go ahead and make it and we hater/mafia types will give you your due. after all, even a scratchy and a crawful can play right sometimes.

Posted by tkf:

Posted by TMS:

u know i'm realistic about this team's situation, & i'm not looking to generate any positive discussion... just making a point about the tendency for guys to take note of good games by players on other teams & to overlook those played by our own guys.

I agree, but the thing is, if you say anything good about the knicks, you are a homer and not a true knick fan... and I agree, zach took it to bosh and crawford dominated both parker and calderon... no problem..

the thing is, we all know that the next game, zach if he doesn't get his shots will be looking to pick a fight with someone else, and if jamal is isn't hot, the knicks will fold and probably get blown out. we have seen this way too many times, to get optomistic about anything..right now, I want to play out the string, fire Isiah and get derrick rose..

[Edited by - tkf on 23-02-2008 11:45 AM]

It boils down to consistency and inconsistency... wins and losses really.

Jamal has scored 50pts I believe 2 times in his career. There are very few players currently playing who've done this and tons of great players who've never done it all. As fans of our own team we're naturally going to be more critical of our team and players vs others. No one is crapping on Jamal's performance and those of his in the past but those who are showing love we're suggesting caution.

NO NEED TO LUBE YOUR UNIT UP WITH OIL AND PULL YOUR PUBES OUT AT THE ROOTS WACKING OFF TO HIS 1-2 STELLAR PERFORMANCES DURING THE YR.


It's too bad a player like him with such scoring ability blows his own candle out by delivering 12-15 maddening games for those 1-2 gems.

Posted by BlueSeats:

There's an old saying that I think applies here:

Familiarity breeds contempt.

Some of us are way too familiar with the temperamental ways of our own players.

[Edited by - blueseats on 02-23-2008 2:45 PM]

Blue, i'm sure every fan of every team is way too familiar of the temperamental ways of their own players too... but do u see the hypocrisy in praising a guy on another team when he scores over 20 on a given night when all season long he's done pretty much nothing with a pretty pathetic scoring average & yet refusing to recognize anything positive when 1 of our own guys goes off & has a 40+ night, which he's had several times before in the past, all the while calling him a pathetic piece of crap or whatever the new phrase of the day is around here? if that's the way people wanna present their sense of "non-bias" that's cool with me... speaking for myself, i'm gonna call a spade a spade... even when guys i hate play well like Marbury & Zach, i'm gonna recognize, same as i do when anyone else does on this team... doesn't make me or anyone else an overly optimistic homer or deluded about the reality of the situation surrounding this franchise. (not saying u said that i was, just making a general point here)

Posted by TMS:

Posted by tkf:

Posted by TMS:

u know i'm realistic about this team's situation, & i'm not looking to generate any positive discussion... just making a point about the tendency for guys to take note of good games by players on other teams & to overlook those played by our own guys.

I agree, but the thing is, if you say anything good about the knicks, you are a homer and not a true knick fan... and I agree, zach took it to bosh and crawford dominated both parker and calderon... no problem..

the thing is, we all know that the next game, zach if he doesn't get his shots will be looking to pick a fight with someone else, and if jamal is isn't hot, the knicks will fold and probably get blown out. we have seen this way too many times, to get optomistic about anything..right now, I want to play out the string, fire Isiah and get derrick rose..

[Edited by - tkf on 23-02-2008 11:45 AM]

i agree w/u & i think True's last post just illustrates your point... i don't hear myself getting all worked up & gizzing all over Jamal & Zach's performance, just noting that it was worthy of praise, the same way he does when a completely unproven player averaging 4 ppg this season has a single 25 point game with a few assists... but hey, like BlueSeats said, familiarity breeds contempt, & these guys have seen this team lose so much that they've been conditioned to be negative about anything & everything they see, even when the team wins & some guys play well... it's a sad state of affairs when a fanbase reaches that point.

Not really because it wasn't directed at anyone in particular but intended for those who like to gush a little too much over anything our players do that's positive. Take for instance I was on the Realgm board today and there's was a thread created within 24hrs after last night's game discussing whether Jamal should be an All-Star in place Joe Johnson. ROTFLMBAO and it's a serious discussion mind you. When fans give Lee props I very rarely if ever see anyone call those fans ridiculous homers and the same with Balk and Nate when compliments are given concerning their efforts.

It's also different when looking at a 2nd yr player vs say a player who's been in the league 8-10yrs.

Posted by TMS:

man, who cares what people on RealGM talk about? this here is the UK forums... why do you refer to the discussions going on over on the RealGM boards as if anyone of us could give a crap? u've been here long enough to have moved on from that place i would think.

Because I feel it's safe to say it's an attitude/opinion that permeates throughout our whole fan base. We tend to overvalue our own players and gloat over what they do and minimize players efforts from other teams.

Take for instance myself and few others were hyping Andris Biedrins very early last yr and we got the same retorts from plenty posters as the one you gave in the Marcus Williams thread. Now we arrive to this season and I've seen several discussions from ones on this board claiming we should go after Biedrins this off-season or trade for him at the deadline that past. Let's be real no one is combing through box scores game after game looking for some random young player who filled them up. Occasionally there may be a Marcus, Bynum, Thomas, Williams x 2 thread started here. I think it's obvious why that is, all those young players either could have been ours but more importantly(even as incomplete as some of their games are at this point) they all had the potential to fill a need position wise or with a particular skill set they bring to the game for our team. We need a point guard, center, interior defense, and shot blocking. When these players have games that reflect such productivity or usefulness it's posted here.... with expectation. And none of our young players are playing behind the likes of a HOF point guard in Kidd, or behind a 2 time DPOY player in Ben Wallace, or in a system catered around a ball hogging, HOF 2guard, best player in the game,.... Kobe Bryant. Our players have nothing holding them back, in an environment of complete unaccountability and for the most part ego stroking and coddling.


[Edited by - TrueBlue on 02-23-2008 7:44 PM]

Posted by TMS:

that's just it, what has Marcus Williams shown over his career so far that would even tell u he's the answer to what this team needs at this point? he hasn't been a great assist guy so far from what i've seen... we have enough perimeter scorers on this team... you, someone who has bashed on guys like Jamal in the past because of the way he plays the game & yet go lilly ga-ga over other shoot first random chuckers in the game like Baron Davis, should really not be the one to talk here about consistency of views.

Because a player like Baron still averages a high amount of assist. If you look at Baron's career, the yrs he's been healthy, his teams have been in the playoffs. Out of his 10yr career he's averaged 8ast or more 5 of them. Baron plays defense and doesn't dog it every other game. The only similarities is shot selection and clutchness, other than that Baron and Jamal aren't even close to the same player and 100gms out of 100 gms would tell you that.

BTW Marcus Williams has a career high in assist tonight through 3qrts with 12. He'll probably finish with close to 20 and once again he plays a position in which needed someone of his caliber to set a tone for us. He clearly knows how to run an offense when given the chance, it's not even debatable. We could of had him and Balkman in which if we drafted Marcus it was at no risk to us.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 02-23-2008 8:21 PM]

Posted by TMS:

you keep harping about how Marcus Williams could have been the answer here but when the draft was held we had Marbury deeply embedded in Isiah's plans here along w/Jamal & Nate who would probably be seeing playing time ahead of him anyway... that's just reality... i know u like to crow about the way "you told us so" on every other thread, but the fact is what you wanted was just not gonna happen... if Marcus Williams is having a good game right now, good for him... we got our share of young guys who've had good games but they haven't been able to sustain it over the longhaul to any appreciable length of time... u wanna talk about how Knick fans overvalue our own & short change players on other teams, but i just notice the complete opposite with you & a lot of other guys around here.

I'm not saying Williams would have been the answer but he sure should have been the logical choice taken considering availability and need. We still drafted Mardy Collins even with everything you cited above. Draft Williams first, who had more pure PG skills on the board at the time, and draft Balk later who wasn't on anybody's radar really. My No risk comment in my previous post implied even if he turned out to be useless it would have put us at no worse a predicament than what we have with Mardy. Like I also stated I generally don't get on anyone(at least not this yr) who compliment Lee, Nate, and Balk when they have a good game and really haven't seen it too much from anyone else. Just because some fans may want every player gone isn't a total indictment on how they feel about each player individually.