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OT: Cavs acquire Big Ben and Wally in 3-team blockbuster
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Bonn1997
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2/24/2008  6:00 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Bippity10:

Definition of a panic move: Acquiring JJames and giving him the full MLE because you "don't have a center"

i think ur completely missing the "he's a legitimate 7 footer & that's what those guys get in the NBA" factor... stop being such an overreactive hater.

Also we needed a center
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Marv
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2/25/2008  10:56 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Bippity10:

Definition of a panic move: Acquiring JJames and giving him the full MLE because you "don't have a center"

i think ur completely missing the "he's a legitimate 7 footer & that's what those guys get in the NBA" factor... stop being such an overreactive hater.

Also we needed a center

jerome brings the intangibles.
crzymdups
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4/12/2008  11:33 PM
This trade did not work out for Cleveland AT ALL.


You want cap room?:

We should pursue a trade of Zach and Nate for Big Ben or Wally or Big Z this summer.

Cleveland is going to be making more panic moves to get Cleveland younger and better and they don't have much to offer...

[Edited by - crzymdups on 12-04-2008 11:35 PM]
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sebstar
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4/12/2008  11:40 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

This trade did not work out for Cleveland AT ALL.


You want cap room?:

We should pursue a trade of Zach and Nate for Big Ben or Wally or Big Z this summer.

Cleveland is going to be making more panic moves to get Cleveland younger and better and they don't have much to offer...

[Edited by - crzymdups on 12-04-2008 11:35 PM]

Yeppers. Garbage trade. All the guys they grabbed are also-rans and never-was'

A Randolph trade might be a bit ambitious, but I think they would be all over Crawford.
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crzymdups
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4/12/2008  11:42 PM
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by crzymdups:

This trade did not work out for Cleveland AT ALL.


You want cap room?:

We should pursue a trade of Zach and Nate for Big Ben or Wally or Big Z this summer.

Cleveland is going to be making more panic moves to get Cleveland younger and better and they don't have much to offer...

[Edited by - crzymdups on 12-04-2008 11:35 PM]

Yeppers. Garbage trade. All the guys they grabbed are also-rans and never-was'

A Randolph trade might be a bit ambitious, but I think they would be all over Crawford.

I don't know - they were dumb enough to trade for Wally and Ben. They might just be dumb enough to "shake things up" and bring in Zach.

Also, frankly, Lebron is the kind of Jordan-like pressence that even Zach would have to listen to. Zach might actually work in Cleveland.

I agree Jamal would be great there, too. So, maybe Jamal and Zach for Wally and Ben? We'd have crazy cap room and a pretty damn near lock on the #1 pick in 2009.
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TMS
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4/13/2008  2:47 AM
offer up Curry & Jamal for Big Ben, Eric Snow & a future protected pick?

that gets us cap relief & some defensive players to help balance out the roster a bit... also opens up more of a scoring role in the backcourt for whoever we pick in this year's draft, & we can then target someone like Artest w/the MLE

[Edited by - TMS on 04-12-2008 11:48 PM]
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crzymdups
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4/13/2008  3:30 AM
Posted by TMS:

offer up Curry & Jamal for Big Ben, Eric Snow & a future protected pick?

that gets us cap relief & some defensive players to help balance out the roster a bit... also opens up more of a scoring role in the backcourt for whoever we pick in this year's draft, & we can then target someone like Artest w/the MLE

[Edited by - TMS on 04-12-2008 11:48 PM]

there's no way they want Curry. he's a trainwreck.

Zach has been in the playoffs before and is a young-ish 20 and 10 guy, who just needs to be reeled in...

Zach can be tamed by Lebron and be a good soldier who scores in the post and rebounds. Curry is just a fat lazy pig who can't do anything.
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TMS
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4/13/2008  3:35 AM
i disagree w/u... put Curry on a team w/Lebron & he'll benefit greatly by the attention being drawn on the perimeter by Lebron... plus his contract isn't as ludicrously bad as Zach's is, & Jamal would give Lebron some scoring help as well... they have a guy in Varejao who does all the dirty work & rebounds & Big Z often plays on the high post, which is very much like Zach's game.

actually we'd have to throw in another contract to even out the dollars even if we gave them Curry & Jamal, so maybe throw in Malik's expiring

[Edited by - TMS on 04-13-2008 12:37 AM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
crzymdups
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4/13/2008  3:52 AM
Posted by TMS:

i disagree w/u... put Curry on a team w/Lebron & he'll benefit greatly by the attention being drawn on the perimeter by Lebron... plus his contract isn't as ludicrously bad as Zach's is, & Jamal would give Lebron some scoring help as well... they have a guy in Varejao who does all the dirty work & rebounds & Big Z often plays on the high post, which is very much like Zach's game.

actually we'd have to throw in another contract to even out the dollars even if we gave them Curry & Jamal, so maybe throw in Malik's expiring

[Edited by - TMS on 04-13-2008 12:37 AM]

em... I have to disagree. people around the league have seen zach play and seen eddy play.

maybe it'd make more sense to trade Zach and Jamal for Z and Wally. That'd give Cleveland Zach and Ben in the front court, which could conceivably work for them.

Cleveland would be willing to take on Zach's contract to make Bron happy, which they're gonna need to do after they get bounced in the second round. Maybe there's a better option for Cleveland, but I'm just saying we should pick up the phone.
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TMS
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4/13/2008  3:54 AM
if u could unload Curry or Zach for any contracts w/1 less year remaining i'm all for it.
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Bonn1997
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4/13/2008  5:54 AM
Posted by TMS:

i disagree w/u... put Curry on a team w/Lebron & he'll benefit greatly by the attention being drawn on the perimeter by Lebron... plus his contract isn't as ludicrously bad as Zach's is, & Jamal would give Lebron some scoring help as well... they have a guy in Varejao who does all the dirty work & rebounds & Big Z often plays on the high post, which is very much like Zach's game.

actually we'd have to throw in another contract to even out the dollars even if we gave them Curry & Jamal, so maybe throw in Malik's expiring

[Edited by - TMS on 04-13-2008 12:37 AM]

I agree with you. First, there is NO chance that Lebron is going to want to share the ball with Zach. But Eddy's at least an unselfish player (who does one thing well).
Bonn1997
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4/13/2008  5:55 AM
Posted by TMS:

if u could unload Curry or Zach for any contracts w/1 less year remaining i'm all for it.
Exactly; forget this expiring contract stuff that people are coming up with. We're in rare agreement today!

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 04-13-2008 05:55 AM]
Solace
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4/13/2008  6:18 AM
Eddy 4.7 rpg Curry has terrible trade value and rightfully so. He hurts his team on all sides of the court because he's underskilled in every area except putting in shots from 5 feet. The guy can't pass, can't block shots, is an instant turnover in the double team, can't shoot free throws, is usually in foul trouble. He's one of the 10 worst defensive players in the league and his superior post game is offset by his other flaws on offense. We can't realistically expect to get much in return for Eddy Curry.

Now, Zach is overpaid, is a distraction to the team, has his own issues, is god-awful on defense, but at least he can play and helps a team in some areas.
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crzymdups
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4/13/2008  4:18 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:

i disagree w/u... put Curry on a team w/Lebron & he'll benefit greatly by the attention being drawn on the perimeter by Lebron... plus his contract isn't as ludicrously bad as Zach's is, & Jamal would give Lebron some scoring help as well... they have a guy in Varejao who does all the dirty work & rebounds & Big Z often plays on the high post, which is very much like Zach's game.

actually we'd have to throw in another contract to even out the dollars even if we gave them Curry & Jamal, so maybe throw in Malik's expiring

[Edited by - TMS on 04-13-2008 12:37 AM]

I agree with you. First, there is NO chance that Lebron is going to want to share the ball with Zach. But Eddy's at least an unselfish player (who does one thing well).

In the NBA it's all about who the leader of the team is - Sheed had to fall in line in Detroit behind Chauncey and Ben, Rodman had to fall in line behind Jordan, Spree had to fall in line behind KG.

Problems arise when there's a Kobe/Shaq situation, but Lebron is so clearly superior to Zach and a more dominant personality, that I think he'd have to fall in line there. Zach CAN move the ball and take less shots and Lebron would make him.

I think it would work. The question is where does Zach's attitude not hurt a team and Cleveland might be one of the only places where there's a dominant enough personality to hold him in line. And if that question is answered, if anyone on the planet thinks from a basketball standpoint anyone in the league would take Curry over Zach they're crazy. ZBO is a superior scorer and rebounder - the question is can you keep his attitude and selfish tendencies in check. Lebron might be one of, like, three guys in the league who could do it.

With all the crappy contracts Cleveland has, they might try it.

No one is taking Curry. He is 100% untradeable after this season. Maybe next season you can pump his scoring average and give him a sliver of value, but right now he is 100% untradeable.
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4/13/2008  4:35 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by crzymdups:

This trade did not work out for Cleveland AT ALL.


You want cap room?:

We should pursue a trade of Zach and Nate for Big Ben or Wally or Big Z this summer.

Cleveland is going to be making more panic moves to get Cleveland younger and better and they don't have much to offer...

[Edited by - crzymdups on 12-04-2008 11:35 PM]

Yeppers. Garbage trade. All the guys they grabbed are also-rans and never-was'

A Randolph trade might be a bit ambitious, but I think they would be all over Crawford.

I don't know - they were dumb enough to trade for Wally and Ben. They might just be dumb enough to "shake things up" and bring in Zach.

Also, frankly, Lebron is the kind of Jordan-like pressence that even Zach would have to listen to. Zach might actually work in Cleveland.

I agree Jamal would be great there, too. So, maybe Jamal and Zach for Wally and Ben? We'd have crazy cap room and a pretty damn near lock on the #1 pick in 2009.

I doubt Cleveland would take Randolph by himself, but I think you're right. If Craw is included with Randolph, I don't really see how the Cavs could pass that up. Because minus LBJ, they suck donkey balls. Like you said, I think Crawford would fit in great there. I don't think Randolph will fit in well anywhere, but at least he'd actually offer something, unlike Wallace.
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Bonn1997
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4/13/2008  4:45 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:

i disagree w/u... put Curry on a team w/Lebron & he'll benefit greatly by the attention being drawn on the perimeter by Lebron... plus his contract isn't as ludicrously bad as Zach's is, & Jamal would give Lebron some scoring help as well... they have a guy in Varejao who does all the dirty work & rebounds & Big Z often plays on the high post, which is very much like Zach's game.

actually we'd have to throw in another contract to even out the dollars even if we gave them Curry & Jamal, so maybe throw in Malik's expiring

[Edited by - TMS on 04-13-2008 12:37 AM]

I agree with you. First, there is NO chance that Lebron is going to want to share the ball with Zach. But Eddy's at least an unselfish player (who does one thing well).

In the NBA it's all about who the leader of the team is - Sheed had to fall in line in Detroit behind Chauncey and Ben, Rodman had to fall in line behind Jordan, Spree had to fall in line behind KG.

Problems arise when there's a Kobe/Shaq situation, but Lebron is so clearly superior to Zach and a more dominant personality, that I think he'd have to fall in line there. Zach CAN move the ball and take less shots and Lebron would make him.

I think it would work. The question is where does Zach's attitude not hurt a team and Cleveland might be one of the only places where there's a dominant enough personality to hold him in line. And if that question is answered, if anyone on the planet thinks from a basketball standpoint anyone in the league would take Curry over Zach they're crazy. ZBO is a superior scorer and rebounder - the question is can you keep his attitude and selfish tendencies in check. Lebron might be one of, like, three guys in the league who could do it.

With all the crappy contracts Cleveland has, they might try it.

No one is taking Curry. He is 100% untradeable after this season. Maybe next season you can pump his scoring average and give him a sliver of value, but right now he is 100% untradeable.
If anyone in the Cavs organization agreed with you, they would have gone after Zach by now. Zach is hopeless. There is no situation, no teammate, no coach, no city, and no planet in which he can be a positive influence.
crzymdups
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4/13/2008  6:19 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:


If anyone in the Cavs organization agreed with you, they would have gone after Zach by now. Zach is hopeless. There is no situation, no teammate, no coach, no city, and no planet in which he can be a positive influence.

No. The whole point of this trade is timing. The Cavs have been playing about .400 ball since their big trade deadline panic move. This summer they'll know they need to undo it to a certain extent, to undo the damage of that trade and reload with some real talent. Crawford and Zach may not be the best they can do, but those two do fill serious needs for the Cavs and if they believe Lebron can keep them in line, it's a real possibility.

I'm not saying they'll definitely do it, but it's one of the more realistic trade options out there if we're looking to unload Zach. Which we should be.
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MS
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4/13/2008  11:23 PM
I really think the Cavs are going to have to make another panic move, because the team is going no where and lebron isn't going to be happy, and to be quite honest, the bucks should look to move Redd to the cavs for wally but they wont because that would make to much sense for them.

But if you look at moving zach, crawford, and perhaps nate to cleveland for big ben and wally I think you could get the deal done. It would be a nice trade and give them additional shooters and scoring help to go with Lebron.

That would give the Knicks someone to start next to curry and build up his value which the team would need to do.

Curry
Big Ben
Q
Wally
Marbury

The team isn't great but you still keep lee, and chandler plus our pick and your getting a ton of cap relief for the future. So I think it's a win win for both teams cleveland gets scoring and keeps lebron happy
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4/13/2008  11:37 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by Bonn1997:


If anyone in the Cavs organization agreed with you, they would have gone after Zach by now. Zach is hopeless. There is no situation, no teammate, no coach, no city, and no planet in which he can be a positive influence.

No. The whole point of this trade is timing. The Cavs have been playing about .400 ball since their big trade deadline panic move. This summer they'll know they need to undo it to a certain extent, to undo the damage of that trade and reload with some real talent. Crawford and Zach may not be the best they can do, but those two do fill serious needs for the Cavs and if they believe Lebron can keep them in line, it's a real possibility.

I'm not saying they'll definitely do it, but it's one of the more realistic trade options out there if we're looking to unload Zach. Which we should be.

Yea- I think timing is everything and Cleveland might be needing to make some moves- I think Zach & Curry will be hard to trade, especially after the season they had.


I also think Dallas is going to look to make a move over the summer- they've played like crap since Kidd got there.
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