Posted by nixluva:

It's not about Portland having a PG or not! It's about the Knicks looking to make the same kinds of smart moves that these other up and coming teams have. Adding a stud with winning qualities is actually more to the point. Someone with fire in his gut and a will to win that spreads to his teammates like Roy or Paul. We can't fix everything but we can get a big boost with the right moves. I can see a couple of players in this draft that can really help this team. PG and C in particular. Of course we still need to address other positions, but the players we already have would be even better with improvements at PG and C. I can imagine how adding a great defensive C could help to change the identity of this team. So to me we need picks more than we need a player like Vince.

At this point in his career Vince is a floater. He can at times raise his game and take over, but most of the time he just floats in games, cuz he can't push it for 48 night in and night out anymore. I don't want anymore hobbled players. How about a young dynamic player to secure our future?

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by nixluva:

It's not about Portland having a PG or not! It's about the Knicks looking to make the same kinds of smart moves that these other up and coming teams have. Adding a stud with winning qualities is actually more to the point. Someone with fire in his gut and a will to win that spreads to his teammates like Roy or Paul. We can't fix everything but we can get a big boost with the right moves. I can see a couple of players in this draft that can really help this team. PG and C in particular. Of course we still need to address other positions, but the players we already have would be even better with improvements at PG and C. I can imagine how adding a great defensive C could help to change the identity of this team. So to me we need picks more than we need a player like Vince.

At this point in his career Vince is a floater. He can at times raise his game and take over, but most of the time he just floats in games, cuz he can't push it for 48 night in and night out anymore. I don't want anymore hobbled players. How about a young dynamic player to secure our future?

It's nice to finally say.. I agree with you Nix. 100%

Posted by Cosmic:

Posted by joec32033:




I'd be happy dumping contracts too. BUT, you have to look at what we have and where we are going. Not only is Isiah trying to surround himself with his players (Vince was an Isiah guy, right?) just building this team is a challenge. This team is not bad enough to get the #1 pick, and Isiah won't have it on his "record" that after all his moves he has a #1 pick to show for it. IMO, I think this team has no choice to be built but like the Pistons were. 2nd level talent that meshes well and clicks. I nor anyone else, is claiming that Vince is a savior. But he is a quality player, probably would be our 2nd best(Randolph may be our best, believe it or not) player. Vince is a great second option with a good midrange game. He also is big and strong and is at least an average defender.

Personally, I have a feeling that there is a real possibility we end up with BOTH O'Neal and Carter. Just Isiah surrounding himself with his own guys that will support him.

Now if we are going to trade for Vince we have to understand we are going to be switching plans again. BUT by doing this we are eliminating a lot of the clutter and upgrading our talent.

Now you refer to this as a "quick fix". I see it as no such thing. I said in the first line of my post, that getting Vince would only make sense to me if followed by a few OTHER moves. I am talking about clearing about half the team!

Do you believe that trading for Vince is a first step in a 3 or 4 step process to turn the roster over for the third time in 4+ years? Do you really trust Isiah Thomas to handle that task?

Personally, I don't. I doubt Vince helps us do anything more than we are doing right now. He has a penchant for playing strong for a while and then giving up. I doubt we'd be any different.

Also, Vince doesn't mix well with our core, because our core is so rotten right now. Vince won't lift the core up - the core will drag Vince down with them.

He's also of the mold of so many of our rotten core. He's a chucker. He is a terrible defender. He's me-first. He's soft. He's mentally soft. He's not a leader.

Jermaine ONeal: Just far too injury prone to ever trust. Besides, since the Palace Brawl, JO has been a nobody.

That's why I call these quick fixes because the thought is that the incoming player is the missing piece, the final piece, or a piece that can lead our team and get them all in line and playing up to their abilities.

The opposite has always happened in four years of Isiah's management and any prospective future deal will certainly follow that history.


So, despite knowing Isiah is going no where and would not seek to do what I want, I will continue to maintain the best way to do things is:

Fire Isiah.

Buy out Jerome, Marbury, Malik. Waive Jones.

Trade Curry and Crawford (and lee or balkman, etc, if you have to) for JWill and Davis.

Try to trade Zach for say Ratliff or something that ends in 09 or 10.

While those contracts are coming off the books you develop the young kids. You develop your draft picks.

By June 2010 we can add a top notch FA to our young feisty team of up-commers.




Isiah's plan? June 2010, we will still stink, we will be strapped with brand new contracts, and have no hope in sight.

Our fans are so stuck on stupid they want to throw the 5th pick or better out the window and add 10+mil more in cap 2010 for Vince Carter and hope we make the playoffs.

And let's not create trade scenarios that aren't rumored yet. We're talking giving Curry up for Carter and that's an absolute No No! Do fans realize the better we make Jersey's situation the better chance they have at landing Lebron in the future?

Posted by TrueBlue:




Our fans are so stuck on stupid they want to throw the 5th pick or better out the window and add 10+mil more in cap 2010 for Vince Carter and hope we make the playoffs.

And let's not create trade scenarios that aren't rumored yet. We're talking giving Curry up for Carter and that's an absolute No No! Do fans realize the better we make Jersey's situation the better chance they have at landing Lebron in the future?

Posted by TrueBlue:




Carter is a BUM he's not even in those guys category and I get your drift when comparing a Curry/Carter swap. That's why rest assured we're giving up something else such as a pick(with mild Protection Top 5). We'd end up with probably the 8th or 9th worst record in the league. Lose the Lottery and hand over such pick to New Jersey while giving them cap sapce. The Dallas/Kidd trade should tell us all we need to know what Kiki and Thorn would try to achieve or what they would want.

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by Cosmic:

Posted by joec32033:




I'd be happy dumping contracts too. BUT, you have to look at what we have and where we are going. Not only is Isiah trying to surround himself with his players (Vince was an Isiah guy, right?) just building this team is a challenge. This team is not bad enough to get the #1 pick, and Isiah won't have it on his "record" that after all his moves he has a #1 pick to show for it. IMO, I think this team has no choice to be built but like the Pistons were. 2nd level talent that meshes well and clicks. I nor anyone else, is claiming that Vince is a savior. But he is a quality player, probably would be our 2nd best(Randolph may be our best, believe it or not) player. Vince is a great second option with a good midrange game. He also is big and strong and is at least an average defender.

Personally, I have a feeling that there is a real possibility we end up with BOTH O'Neal and Carter. Just Isiah surrounding himself with his own guys that will support him.

Now if we are going to trade for Vince we have to understand we are going to be switching plans again. BUT by doing this we are eliminating a lot of the clutter and upgrading our talent.

Now you refer to this as a "quick fix". I see it as no such thing. I said in the first line of my post, that getting Vince would only make sense to me if followed by a few OTHER moves. I am talking about clearing about half the team!

Do you believe that trading for Vince is a first step in a 3 or 4 step process to turn the roster over for the third time in 4+ years? Do you really trust Isiah Thomas to handle that task?

Personally, I don't. I doubt Vince helps us do anything more than we are doing right now. He has a penchant for playing strong for a while and then giving up. I doubt we'd be any different.

Also, Vince doesn't mix well with our core, because our core is so rotten right now. Vince won't lift the core up - the core will drag Vince down with them.

He's also of the mold of so many of our rotten core. He's a chucker. He is a terrible defender. He's me-first. He's soft. He's mentally soft. He's not a leader.

Jermaine ONeal: Just far too injury prone to ever trust. Besides, since the Palace Brawl, JO has been a nobody.

That's why I call these quick fixes because the thought is that the incoming player is the missing piece, the final piece, or a piece that can lead our team and get them all in line and playing up to their abilities.

The opposite has always happened in four years of Isiah's management and any prospective future deal will certainly follow that history.


So, despite knowing Isiah is going no where and would not seek to do what I want, I will continue to maintain the best way to do things is:

Fire Isiah.

Buy out Jerome, Marbury, Malik. Waive Jones.

Trade Curry and Crawford (and lee or balkman, etc, if you have to) for JWill and Davis.

Try to trade Zach for say Ratliff or something that ends in 09 or 10.

While those contracts are coming off the books you develop the young kids. You develop your draft picks.

By June 2010 we can add a top notch FA to our young feisty team of up-commers.




Isiah's plan? June 2010, we will still stink, we will be strapped with brand new contracts, and have no hope in sight.

Our fans are so stuck on stupid they want to throw the 5th pick or better out the window and add 10+mil more in cap 2010 for Vince Carter and hope we make the playoffs.

And let's not create trade scenarios that aren't rumored yet. We're talking giving Curry up for Carter and that's an absolute No No! Do fans realize the better we make Jersey's situation the better chance they have at landing Lebron in the future?

Who are you calling stupid? Stop being a condescending prick.

Posted by joec32033:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by Cosmic:

Posted by joec32033:




I'd be happy dumping contracts too. BUT, you have to look at what we have and where we are going. Not only is Isiah trying to surround himself with his players (Vince was an Isiah guy, right?) just building this team is a challenge. This team is not bad enough to get the #1 pick, and Isiah won't have it on his "record" that after all his moves he has a #1 pick to show for it. IMO, I think this team has no choice to be built but like the Pistons were. 2nd level talent that meshes well and clicks. I nor anyone else, is claiming that Vince is a savior. But he is a quality player, probably would be our 2nd best(Randolph may be our best, believe it or not) player. Vince is a great second option with a good midrange game. He also is big and strong and is at least an average defender.

Personally, I have a feeling that there is a real possibility we end up with BOTH O'Neal and Carter. Just Isiah surrounding himself with his own guys that will support him.

Now if we are going to trade for Vince we have to understand we are going to be switching plans again. BUT by doing this we are eliminating a lot of the clutter and upgrading our talent.

Now you refer to this as a "quick fix". I see it as no such thing. I said in the first line of my post, that getting Vince would only make sense to me if followed by a few OTHER moves. I am talking about clearing about half the team!

Do you believe that trading for Vince is a first step in a 3 or 4 step process to turn the roster over for the third time in 4+ years? Do you really trust Isiah Thomas to handle that task?

Personally, I don't. I doubt Vince helps us do anything more than we are doing right now. He has a penchant for playing strong for a while and then giving up. I doubt we'd be any different.

Also, Vince doesn't mix well with our core, because our core is so rotten right now. Vince won't lift the core up - the core will drag Vince down with them.

He's also of the mold of so many of our rotten core. He's a chucker. He is a terrible defender. He's me-first. He's soft. He's mentally soft. He's not a leader.

Jermaine ONeal: Just far too injury prone to ever trust. Besides, since the Palace Brawl, JO has been a nobody.

That's why I call these quick fixes because the thought is that the incoming player is the missing piece, the final piece, or a piece that can lead our team and get them all in line and playing up to their abilities.

The opposite has always happened in four years of Isiah's management and any prospective future deal will certainly follow that history.


So, despite knowing Isiah is going no where and would not seek to do what I want, I will continue to maintain the best way to do things is:

Fire Isiah.

Buy out Jerome, Marbury, Malik. Waive Jones.

Trade Curry and Crawford (and lee or balkman, etc, if you have to) for JWill and Davis.

Try to trade Zach for say Ratliff or something that ends in 09 or 10.

While those contracts are coming off the books you develop the young kids. You develop your draft picks.

By June 2010 we can add a top notch FA to our young feisty team of up-commers.




Isiah's plan? June 2010, we will still stink, we will be strapped with brand new contracts, and have no hope in sight.

Our fans are so stuck on stupid they want to throw the 5th pick or better out the window and add 10+mil more in cap 2010 for Vince Carter and hope we make the playoffs.

And let's not create trade scenarios that aren't rumored yet. We're talking giving Curry up for Carter and that's an absolute No No! Do fans realize the better we make Jersey's situation the better chance they have at landing Lebron in the future?

Who are you calling stupid? Stop being a condescending prick.

I'm responding to Cosmic's post. I'm painting a broad stroke so-to-speak, although with a lot of truth mixed in the paint but didn't isolate you in the stroke.

Stop being so sensitive.

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by joec32033:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by Cosmic:

Posted by joec32033:




I'd be happy dumping contracts too. BUT, you have to look at what we have and where we are going. Not only is Isiah trying to surround himself with his players (Vince was an Isiah guy, right?) just building this team is a challenge. This team is not bad enough to get the #1 pick, and Isiah won't have it on his "record" that after all his moves he has a #1 pick to show for it. IMO, I think this team has no choice to be built but like the Pistons were. 2nd level talent that meshes well and clicks. I nor anyone else, is claiming that Vince is a savior. But he is a quality player, probably would be our 2nd best(Randolph may be our best, believe it or not) player. Vince is a great second option with a good midrange game. He also is big and strong and is at least an average defender.

Personally, I have a feeling that there is a real possibility we end up with BOTH O'Neal and Carter. Just Isiah surrounding himself with his own guys that will support him.

Now if we are going to trade for Vince we have to understand we are going to be switching plans again. BUT by doing this we are eliminating a lot of the clutter and upgrading our talent.

Now you refer to this as a "quick fix". I see it as no such thing. I said in the first line of my post, that getting Vince would only make sense to me if followed by a few OTHER moves. I am talking about clearing about half the team!

Do you believe that trading for Vince is a first step in a 3 or 4 step process to turn the roster over for the third time in 4+ years? Do you really trust Isiah Thomas to handle that task?

Personally, I don't. I doubt Vince helps us do anything more than we are doing right now. He has a penchant for playing strong for a while and then giving up. I doubt we'd be any different.

Also, Vince doesn't mix well with our core, because our core is so rotten right now. Vince won't lift the core up - the core will drag Vince down with them.

He's also of the mold of so many of our rotten core. He's a chucker. He is a terrible defender. He's me-first. He's soft. He's mentally soft. He's not a leader.

Jermaine ONeal: Just far too injury prone to ever trust. Besides, since the Palace Brawl, JO has been a nobody.

That's why I call these quick fixes because the thought is that the incoming player is the missing piece, the final piece, or a piece that can lead our team and get them all in line and playing up to their abilities.

The opposite has always happened in four years of Isiah's management and any prospective future deal will certainly follow that history.


So, despite knowing Isiah is going no where and would not seek to do what I want, I will continue to maintain the best way to do things is:

Fire Isiah.

Buy out Jerome, Marbury, Malik. Waive Jones.

Trade Curry and Crawford (and lee or balkman, etc, if you have to) for JWill and Davis.

Try to trade Zach for say Ratliff or something that ends in 09 or 10.

While those contracts are coming off the books you develop the young kids. You develop your draft picks.

By June 2010 we can add a top notch FA to our young feisty team of up-commers.




Isiah's plan? June 2010, we will still stink, we will be strapped with brand new contracts, and have no hope in sight.

Our fans are so stuck on stupid they want to throw the 5th pick or better out the window and add 10+mil more in cap 2010 for Vince Carter and hope we make the playoffs.

And let's not create trade scenarios that aren't rumored yet. We're talking giving Curry up for Carter and that's an absolute No No! Do fans realize the better we make Jersey's situation the better chance they have at landing Lebron in the future?

Who are you calling stupid? Stop being a condescending prick.

I'm responding to Cosmic's post. I'm painting a broad stroke so-to-speak, although with a lot of truth mixed in the paint but didn't isolate you in the stroke.

Stop being so sensitive.

I'll take you at your word, just take care. When you call people stupid especially when responding to someone's post. You responded to a post that included mine. Be more careful.

Posted by joec32033:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by joec32033:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by Cosmic:

Posted by joec32033:




I'd be happy dumping contracts too. BUT, you have to look at what we have and where we are going. Not only is Isiah trying to surround himself with his players (Vince was an Isiah guy, right?) just building this team is a challenge. This team is not bad enough to get the #1 pick, and Isiah won't have it on his "record" that after all his moves he has a #1 pick to show for it. IMO, I think this team has no choice to be built but like the Pistons were. 2nd level talent that meshes well and clicks. I nor anyone else, is claiming that Vince is a savior. But he is a quality player, probably would be our 2nd best(Randolph may be our best, believe it or not) player. Vince is a great second option with a good midrange game. He also is big and strong and is at least an average defender.

Personally, I have a feeling that there is a real possibility we end up with BOTH O'Neal and Carter. Just Isiah surrounding himself with his own guys that will support him.

Now if we are going to trade for Vince we have to understand we are going to be switching plans again. BUT by doing this we are eliminating a lot of the clutter and upgrading our talent.

Now you refer to this as a "quick fix". I see it as no such thing. I said in the first line of my post, that getting Vince would only make sense to me if followed by a few OTHER moves. I am talking about clearing about half the team!

Do you believe that trading for Vince is a first step in a 3 or 4 step process to turn the roster over for the third time in 4+ years? Do you really trust Isiah Thomas to handle that task?

Personally, I don't. I doubt Vince helps us do anything more than we are doing right now. He has a penchant for playing strong for a while and then giving up. I doubt we'd be any different.

Also, Vince doesn't mix well with our core, because our core is so rotten right now. Vince won't lift the core up - the core will drag Vince down with them.

He's also of the mold of so many of our rotten core. He's a chucker. He is a terrible defender. He's me-first. He's soft. He's mentally soft. He's not a leader.

Jermaine ONeal: Just far too injury prone to ever trust. Besides, since the Palace Brawl, JO has been a nobody.

That's why I call these quick fixes because the thought is that the incoming player is the missing piece, the final piece, or a piece that can lead our team and get them all in line and playing up to their abilities.

The opposite has always happened in four years of Isiah's management and any prospective future deal will certainly follow that history.


So, despite knowing Isiah is going no where and would not seek to do what I want, I will continue to maintain the best way to do things is:

Fire Isiah.

Buy out Jerome, Marbury, Malik. Waive Jones.

Trade Curry and Crawford (and lee or balkman, etc, if you have to) for JWill and Davis.

Try to trade Zach for say Ratliff or something that ends in 09 or 10.

While those contracts are coming off the books you develop the young kids. You develop your draft picks.

By June 2010 we can add a top notch FA to our young feisty team of up-commers.




Isiah's plan? June 2010, we will still stink, we will be strapped with brand new contracts, and have no hope in sight.

Our fans are so stuck on stupid they want to throw the 5th pick or better out the window and add 10+mil more in cap 2010 for Vince Carter and hope we make the playoffs.

And let's not create trade scenarios that aren't rumored yet. We're talking giving Curry up for Carter and that's an absolute No No! Do fans realize the better we make Jersey's situation the better chance they have at landing Lebron in the future?

Who are you calling stupid? Stop being a condescending prick.

I'm responding to Cosmic's post. I'm painting a broad stroke so-to-speak, although with a lot of truth mixed in the paint but didn't isolate you in the stroke.

Stop being so sensitive.

I'll take you at your word, just take care. When you call people stupid especially when responding to someone's post. You responded to a post that included mine. Be more careful.

Generally I use "on drugs" or "drunk" to describe posters rather than saying stupid, because that's less offensive than insulting their intelligence. TrueBlue could learn something from me.