Posted by Bippity10:


I may be wrong, but I could have sworn that I talked about this during and before both the Frye/Lee/Robinson drafts and also before the Balkman draft and I could swear that you argued with me that it wasn't important. I could be wrong, it might have been EArl. There are a lot of mentally tough players Nix. That is different from true leaders that can come into a lossing situation and turn it around instantly. Those types of players are very rare. ARe they in the draft? Maybe. Chances are, they aren't. So that gets us back to reality. Most likely we will draft a player with leardership ability, but asking them to take over the team will be a stretch. So it is imperative that we also bring in veteran leaders that can mentor them and show them the way. Jamal Crawford and Nate Robinson have both shown improvement. Both are "bringing it" on a regular basis. Both are showing individual success. But neither is affecting our record. We are still a mediocre ballclub with an awful teams record. There is a reason behind that. It's because we don't have the leadership in place to help right the ship, when the going gets tough. We don't have a leader that has been through the wars and has won. So guys like Craw and Nate and Balkman and Lee are having a hard time learning it on their own. It will be a herculean task to bring in a rookie to try to be the one to teach them. The Magic Johnson's of the world are few and far between.

Now let's say for argument's sake the player we pick becomes a monster leader. We do acquire the next Magic Johnson/Duncan etc. At that point you don't stick with the status quo. You don't sit back and wait for the Curry's and Zach's of the world to get it. You start building around that new figure. YOu decide who fits next to him and who doesn't. You find out who is listening and who isn't. Then you get rid of the rest. Isiah's mistake in the past is instead of finding that next leader and building around them. He just targeted role playing young guys and built them around Eddie Curry and Stephon Marbury. The result is the young guys are becoming good players that have no affect on the final record. When Marbs was destroying our team earlier this year, yet again, Nate and jamal did not have the leadership qualities to avoid a collapse. Malik didn't have the clout. We had no leader. That has been the reason behind collapses for at least 3 years now. Some have seen the spurts of good play and ignored the yearly collapses and the obvious reasons behind them. No VETERAN leadership

[Edited by - bippity10 on 25-01-2008 07:59 AM]

Posted by Finestrg:

I really like Sergio Rodriguez. I think he could be the future PG for this team. And he's 100% attainable right now. The guy barely plays for Portland. And they have a surplus of PGs over there right now with Steve Blake, Jarrett Jack and Taurean Green, all guys coach Nate McMillian appears to like better - much to my surprise I might add - Sergio easily has the the most talent out of the four IMHO.

If you guys don't like the bigger idea of a David Lee and filler for both Martell Webster & Rodriguez that's fine, but we should at least initiate talks with Portland concerning a smaller deal for just Rodriguez. Maybe something built around Nate, Balkman, Chandler or Randolph Morris.

There's absolutely nothing this kid can't do on the offensive end of the floor for a club - everything you want in a PG. Not undersized at all at 6'2"/6'3", succeeds in getting others involved first before he looks for his own, great handle, pushes the ball with the best uptempo guards in the NBA (which leads to easy offense - something this team really has never had if you think about it - except for Marbury and maybe Nate who are both scoring guards who look for their own first anyway, who else have we ever had that was adept at pushing the ball for consistent transition hoops? Even during the whole Patrick Ewing era, and we had some good PGs - Mark Jackson, Derek Harper, etc...), and he's more than capable of getting his own offense when he has to - above average shooter and slasher.

If we got Sergio for say a Renaldo Balkman or a Randolph Morris, I think it would be similar to the type of steal the Spurs pulled off when they got Rod Strickland from us for an over-the-hill Maurice Cheeks. Rod Strickland went on to have a solid pro career. Thing is, I think Sergio Rodriguez has a chance to be even better than Rod Strickland was. The thing for me here is, if we got this kid by the deadline and he showed he's capable of running our club (something I'm 100% confident in), we now have the flexibility of using our lottery pick to fill other needs (DeAndre Jordan, Donte Greene, Eric Gordon, etc...).



[Edited by - finestrg on 01-25-2008 10:58 AM]

Posted by knicksbabyyeah:

Watch the Blazers Bip

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by nixluva:
Perhaps I misunderstood Bip. I don't think the atmosphere here has been conducive to nurturing young players, tho I do believe that part of that had to do with guys like Francis and Steph. The other young guys aren't the source of problems. Zach isn't a great role model, but Malik is. If we add mentally strong young players I believe that like Brandon Roy, they can't be negatively influenced because he has INTEGRITY! i never really let the streets overtake me and thus i've grown to be a capable father and husband for the last 20 years. I think some people are born with a strong will and once they're set on doing what is right they can't be swayed from that. THAT is the kind of player I want to bring in here. In short I want a LEADER and not a follower. We've had too many weak minded and impressionable players. It's time to change that stench around here.

I may be wrong, but I could have sworn that I talked about this during and before both the Frye/Lee/Robinson drafts and also before the Balkman draft and I could swear that you argued with me that it wasn't important. I could be wrong, it might have been EArl. There are a lot of mentally tough players Nix. That is different from true leaders that can come into a lossing situation and turn it around instantly. Those types of players are very rare. ARe they in the draft? Maybe. Chances are, they aren't. So that gets us back to reality. Most likely we will draft a player with leardership ability, but asking them to take over the team will be a stretch. So it is imperative that we also bring in veteran leaders that can mentor them and show them the way. Jamal Crawford and Nate Robinson have both shown improvement. Both are "bringing it" on a regular basis. Both are showing individual success. But neither is affecting our record. We are still a mediocre ballclub with an awful teams record. There is a reason behind that. It's because we don't have the leadership in place to help right the ship, when the going gets tough. We don't have a leader that has been through the wars and has won. So guys like Craw and Nate and Balkman and Lee are having a hard time learning it on their own. It will be a herculean task to bring in a rookie to try to be the one to teach them. The Magic Johnson's of the world are few and far between.

Now let's say for argument's sake the player we pick becomes a monster leader. We do acquire the next Magic Johnson/Duncan etc. At that point you don't stick with the status quo. You don't sit back and wait for the Curry's and Zach's of the world to get it. You start building around that new figure. YOu decide who fits next to him and who doesn't. You find out who is listening and who isn't. Then you get rid of the rest. Isiah's mistake in the past is instead of finding that next leader and building around them. He just targeted role playing young guys and built them around Eddie Curry and Stephon Marbury. The result is the young guys are becoming good players that have no affect on the final record. When Marbs was destroying our team earlier this year, yet again, Nate and jamal did not have the leadership qualities to avoid a collapse. Malik didn't have the clout. We had no leader. That has been the reason behind collapses for at least 3 years now. Some have seen the spurts of good play and ignored the yearly collapses and the obvious reasons behind them. No VETERAN leadership

Posted by misterearl:

This Thread Is So Cool.

A high five to nixluva for a thread topic with staying power. If talent was the measure, Pearl Washington would have stayed around for more than a cup of coffee. The difficulty is measuring the elusive qualeenities of leadership at the next level.

Deciphering second-hand reports is truly an art form. Cutting and pasting a favorite new player to the Knicks roster is as fun as it gets.

(then again, if Tony Parker was worth the late pick...) okay, so with my trusty NBADraft.com summaries... I'll play along...

"Strengths: Incredibly quick and athletic point guard ... Shows a fearless attitude and competitive nature ... Extrmely long wingspan (6-10) gives him a huge advantage at both ends of the floor ... Huge hands also give him great control of the ball ... An excellent ball handler and passer who appers to be on a steep learning curve. Extremely confident. Has a brashness and ****iness rarely found in European players ... Does a solid job of seperating his on and off court demeanor ... His length and reflexes make him a potential lock down defender ... Started playing organized basketball late, but has shown huge improvement in a short period of time ...

Weaknesses: Has all the physial tools and skills to be a great PG, but must develop his offensive skills and learn to master the PG position ... Lacks experience. Came out of nowhere during the summer impressing scouts at the Reebok Eurocamp, but an injury cut his camp short ... Must improve as a shooter. His mechanics are solid, but he must develop better consistency and ability to shoot off the dribble ... Improved body strength will give him better finishing ability and range on his shot ... Very shy kid off the court, must learn to be a vocal leader on the court ..."

Rodrigue Beaubois

book it dano

It's NBAdraft.net there tough guy.

Hey in all seriousness, do we still have our 2nd rounder? I thought we gave it up to Portland in the Nichols trade last draft?

Posted by Finestrg:




Hey in all seriousness, do we still have our 2nd rounder? I thought we gave it up to Portland in the Nichols trade last draft?

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by nixluva:
Perhaps I misunderstood Bip. I don't think the atmosphere here has been conducive to nurturing young players, tho I do believe that part of that had to do with guys like Francis and Steph. The other young guys aren't the source of problems. Zach isn't a great role model, but Malik is. If we add mentally strong young players I believe that like Brandon Roy, they can't be negatively influenced because he has INTEGRITY! i never really let the streets overtake me and thus i've grown to be a capable father and husband for the last 20 years. I think some people are born with a strong will and once they're set on doing what is right they can't be swayed from that. THAT is the kind of player I want to bring in here. In short I want a LEADER and not a follower. We've had too many weak minded and impressionable players. It's time to change that stench around here.

I may be wrong, but I could have sworn that I talked about this during and before both the Frye/Lee/Robinson drafts and also before the Balkman draft and I could swear that you argued with me that it wasn't important. I could be wrong, it might have been EArl. There are a lot of mentally tough players Nix. That is different from true leaders that can come into a lossing situation and turn it around instantly. Those types of players are very rare. ARe they in the draft? Maybe. Chances are, they aren't. So that gets us back to reality. Most likely we will draft a player with leardership ability, but asking them to take over the team will be a stretch. So it is imperative that we also bring in veteran leaders that can mentor them and show them the way. Jamal Crawford and Nate Robinson have both shown improvement. Both are "bringing it" on a regular basis. Both are showing individual success. But neither is affecting our record. We are still a mediocre ballclub with an awful teams record. There is a reason behind that. It's because we don't have the leadership in place to help right the ship, when the going gets tough. We don't have a leader that has been through the wars and has won. So guys like Craw and Nate and Balkman and Lee are having a hard time learning it on their own. It will be a herculean task to bring in a rookie to try to be the one to teach them. The Magic Johnson's of the world are few and far between.

Now let's say for argument's sake the player we pick becomes a monster leader. We do acquire the next Magic Johnson/Duncan etc. At that point you don't stick with the status quo. You don't sit back and wait for the Curry's and Zach's of the world to get it. You start building around that new figure. YOu decide who fits next to him and who doesn't. You find out who is listening and who isn't. Then you get rid of the rest. Isiah's mistake in the past is instead of finding that next leader and building around them. He just targeted role playing young guys and built them around Eddie Curry and Stephon Marbury. The result is the young guys are becoming good players that have no affect on the final record. When Marbs was destroying our team earlier this year, yet again, Nate and jamal did not have the leadership qualities to avoid a collapse. Malik didn't have the clout. We had no leader. That has been the reason behind collapses for at least 3 years now. Some have seen the spurts of good play and ignored the yearly collapses and the obvious reasons behind them. No VETERAN leadership

I don't think you and I are disagreeing at all. We're just covering different aspects of what needs to be done. YES a veteran player would help to make the growth process of our young players come along faster. I also agree that if you end up with a stud leader, then you build around that player and not the other way around. We would have to take a hard look at the roster and weed out players who don't fit the mold of the types of players we want. I think we actually have some guys who could fit in on any good team.

What i'd really like to see is a trade that brought in another 1st rd pick. We need to restock the shelves with some premium talent that plays both ends and has a high BB IQ. That type of player should be the starting point from now on. Don't you find it odd that in 30+ years no Knicks GM has tried to build a team with the kinds of players we had on our championship teams? I mean what other blueprint do you need but a team of smart, team oriented, high character, high BB IQ, 2 way players? GM's on most teams just don't seem to make that a priority. You look at Belichick and how he builds his Patriot teams and you can see how well that works. Detroit and San Antonio do it that way too.
The new beginning starts with this years draft and hopefully we have a GM who has these things in mind. Right now it looks like we'll still have Isiah, but you never know. You would think that after building one of the lowest BB IQ teams that he'd figure out that won't work. Since it seems like Dolan may not fire Isiah we have to pray that he does get it now.