Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by TrueBlue:

What about the idea of force feeding a player to keep him motivated, if not he becomes totally disinterested and unproductive because by nature he's extremely lazy and has a sense of entitlement?

Do you honestly think I SAY UGH'S phone blowing off the hook for any of our players sans Lee, Crawford, and possibly Nate?

Follow the money trail.

Find the worst contracts combined with the worst attitudes and those teams are the ones calling Isiah.

I think calls come in for Eddy because his contract isn't too large. In that sense he's less of a gamble than someone like Zack. Of course those other teams wouldn't be giving up the picks we did, so the hit to them is much less.

Translation.... if I SAY UGH is receiving calls for EY the offers are equivalent to the Zach/Frye Francis deal which means garbage for garbage.

I feel it's highly debatable he's getting any phone calls. Just think EY is teetering on becoming Oliver Miller in a yr. That contract won't look that good.

It's true, a lot of people's optimism with Eddy came from the assumption that somehow here, under the master motivator, Isiah, Eddy would slim down. Instead he's gaining weight every season, even during the season.

In two years, if/when he's packing another 25 lbs, all this talk about him being young and having upside will be over.

I Googled EY and of course anything can come up when doing this, but isn't it ironic this is what you get on pages 3-5 depending on how your Browser pages are loaded. I'll redo this when I get to my Mac so it sinks in a little more clearly for those necessary.

Posted by Solace:

Posted by TMS:

u either have talent or you don't... it doesn't take motivation to have talent... it takes motivation to capitalize on your talent & realize your full potential... to say Curry's garbage implies that he has no talent at all, at least that's my definition of the term... again, my use of the word is different than yours... guys like Big Turd James & Adonal Foyle are garbage in my eyes... Curry has obviously been a huge disappointment but that still doesn't make him worthless in my eyes.

I think you're getting torn up over a misunderstanding over what the terminology means to those who are using it. Curry is garbage in the sense that I (and others) feel he will never improve. It's not a comment on his talent, but on his work ethic. No reason to get caught up in terminology; I think we're mostly in agreement.

A quick example I've seen of this is I used to shrug a lot back in college. I would shrug to mean "I don't know". Someone I knew interpreted shrug as meaning "I don't care", which is a widely different definition. It took a bit of explaining and accusations before we were able to get on the same page.

I think with this, despite the difference in how people might prefer to use the terminology, I think we're saying similar things.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Solace:

Posted by TMS:

u either have talent or you don't... it doesn't take motivation to have talent... it takes motivation to capitalize on your talent & realize your full potential... to say Curry's garbage implies that he has no talent at all, at least that's my definition of the term... again, my use of the word is different than yours... guys like Big Turd James & Adonal Foyle are garbage in my eyes... Curry has obviously been a huge disappointment but that still doesn't make him worthless in my eyes.

I think you're getting torn up over a misunderstanding over what the terminology means to those who are using it. Curry is garbage in the sense that I (and others) feel he will never improve. It's not a comment on his talent, but on his work ethic. No reason to get caught up in terminology; I think we're mostly in agreement.

A quick example I've seen of this is I used to shrug a lot back in college. I would shrug to mean "I don't know". Someone I knew interpreted shrug as meaning "I don't care", which is a widely different definition. It took a bit of explaining and accusations before we were able to get on the same page.

I think with this, despite the difference in how people might prefer to use the terminology, I think we're saying similar things.

i think we've already established that we do agree on Curry in the fact that i don't expect him to improve either at this point... still, i think the guy is better than a lot of role playing bigs in this game... i happen to think he's a legit starter but he needs players that complement & make up for his defensive deficiencies for his team to fully take advantage of his skillset... seems to me his critics don't feel the same, so there's the difference of opinion that's being argued here.

that said, would i make that trade again knowing what i know now? of course not... that's already been established a long time ago... do i consider Curry to be my ideal vision of what i want my NBA center to be? not even close... like i said, i hate players that are lazy & don't play any D or show any passion or pride in the way they play the game... hating the type of player he is doesn't necessarily preclude me to judge him as a garbage player... i don't know if that makes things any clearer for u.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by BlueSeats:

TMS, you seem to be taking this personally.

what have i said that makes u think i'm taking it personally? i'm trying to tell u why i think the garbage labels are over the top, nothing more nothing less.

BlueSeats, all of that original optimism has just about completely dissipated... i don't see any one here under the illusion that Curry will someday realize his potential here... everyone has pretty much come to the realization that he is quite simply an unmotivated player... just some of us realize that he also has talent & ability while his critics think he has no redeeming value at all.

i'll say it again, if the Knicks hadn't given up those 2 lottery picks to get Curry in the first place u wouldn't be hearing posters around here calling him garbage & worthless... it's a shame that we can't have unbiased observations made about a particular player around here w/o being accused of being a blind Isiah supporter or Eddy Curry fan.

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by TMS:


i think we've already established that we do agree on Curry in the fact that i don't expect him to improve either at this point... still, i think the guy is better than a lot of role playing bigs in this game... i happen to think he's a legit starter but he needs players that complement & make up for his defensive deficiencies for his team to fully take advantage of his skillset... seems to me his critics don't feel the same, so there's the difference of opinion that's being argued here.

that said, would i make that trade again knowing what i know now? of course not... that's already been established a long time ago... do i consider Curry to be my ideal vision of what i want my NBA center to be? not even close... like i said, i hate players that are lazy & don't play any D or show any passion or pride in the way they play the game... hating the type of player he is doesn't necessarily preclude me to judge him as a garbage player... i don't know if that makes things any clearer for u.

I know what you're saying TMS. I don't like what we gave up for Curry, but he's not garbage. If there was a defensive minded player who got rebounds and blocked shots playing next to Eddy, he'd look like a much different ball-player. Alot of Eddys's shortcomings aren't Isiah's fault and laziness is Eddy's alone, but what IS Isiah's fault is not finding a complimentary player to play next to him. Eddy is NOT a all-star player on his volition, but he IS a all-star type offensive player if he has a Tyson Chandler next to him.


[Edited by - nyk4ever on 01-07-2008 3:44 PM]

Posted by TMS:

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by BlueSeats:

TMS, you seem to be taking this personally.

what have i said that makes u think i'm taking it personally? i'm trying to tell u why i think the garbage labels are over the top, nothing more nothing less.

Listen, it's okay either way, but your post to me (below) sounds defensive, and you believed Bonn and klytus were speaking to you personally, and overall you just seem to be putting a lot of energy into someone casually calling Eddy "garbage." Just seemed to be motivating you more than most subjects these days, which looked unnecessarily defensive to my eyes. But you tell me I'm mistaken, and that's good enough. My bad.

BlueSeats, all of that original optimism has just about completely dissipated... i don't see any one here under the illusion that Curry will someday realize his potential here... everyone has pretty much come to the realization that he is quite simply an unmotivated player... just some of us realize that he also has talent & ability while his critics think he has no redeeming value at all.

i'll say it again, if the Knicks hadn't given up those 2 lottery picks to get Curry in the first place u wouldn't be hearing posters around here calling him garbage & worthless... it's a shame that we can't have unbiased observations made about a particular player around here w/o being accused of being a blind Isiah supporter or Eddy Curry fan.

dude, i'm just trying to explain where i'm coming from... seems to me people are questioning why everyone here doesn't regard Curry as worthless... should i just not address it next time?... i just don't agree w/that point of view... just stating an opinion here just like everyone else but u seem to think i'm the only one harping on the topic... i don't get where that's coming from but whatever man... i don't take stuff personally when it comes to criticisms of the players on this roster.

as for the labels comment you highlighted, it was directed at those who like to place labels on you for stating an objective opinion on this forum... you know as well as i do that it goes on all the time around here... i say something that even remotely supports a move that Isiah made in the past & all of a sudden i'm an unabashed Isiah supporter... conversely the same thing happens when i or someone else makes a critical comment about a player on the roster from the other side of the coin... yes, i take that part of it personally... i don't like having labels put on me when i'm just trying to state my opinion & neither do u.