Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by bitty41:

See Bip I think that is one of the biggest myths going right now in the NBA. Fans are under the impression that you attain all these high draft picks and these guys will stick around grow together then they'll be winning Championships or contending for titles 4 or 5 years down the road. Thats a myth imo because eventually money, more spotlight, more shots, more personal accolades send these guys to other organizations.

Its not like it use to be where guys stayed with the same team for their entire career now thats become very rare even for top fleet players. Steve Nash Jason Kidd, KG, Shaq,Iverson have all been traded some of them multiple times.

This isn't high school or college basketball where you bring in a promising Freshmen class the guys grow together then reach their pinnacle during their Junior or Senior year.

[Edited by - bitty41 on 12-26-2007 10:56 AM]

I'm not perpetuating any myths and have not suggested any. I am under no misconceptions that adding youth and draft picks guarantees you anything. If you post with me a while you will no that my position is completely clear. You can build through the draft, you can build through the free-agent market and you can build through trades. Great organizations usually use all three resources.

But you have to be in position to be successful. You have to give yourself a shot. It depends on your current situation on how you decide to grow. Portland picked the only path they knew after years of misfits. Of course they still have to make smart moves, but the major difference is that they have put themselves in position to at least have a shot. That's all I ask my team to do.

I got was venturing into a conversation like this in the Andre Miller thread. When people say we need to get that top pick, it only means we have a chance at a star. Dwight Howard was a top pick. So was Kwame Brown and Olowakandi.

If I had the choice I'd take a team that resembles a team and say the 5-8 pick rather than the top pick and a team that is total chaos.

Posted by joec32033:

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by bitty41:

See Bip I think that is one of the biggest myths going right now in the NBA. Fans are under the impression that you attain all these high draft picks and these guys will stick around grow together then they'll be winning Championships or contending for titles 4 or 5 years down the road. Thats a myth imo because eventually money, more spotlight, more shots, more personal accolades send these guys to other organizations.

Its not like it use to be where guys stayed with the same team for their entire career now thats become very rare even for top fleet players. Steve Nash Jason Kidd, KG, Shaq,Iverson have all been traded some of them multiple times.

This isn't high school or college basketball where you bring in a promising Freshmen class the guys grow together then reach their pinnacle during their Junior or Senior year.

[Edited by - bitty41 on 12-26-2007 10:56 AM]

I'm not perpetuating any myths and have not suggested any. I am under no misconceptions that adding youth and draft picks guarantees you anything. If you post with me a while you will no that my position is completely clear. You can build through the draft, you can build through the free-agent market and you can build through trades. Great organizations usually use all three resources.

But you have to be in position to be successful. You have to give yourself a shot. It depends on your current situation on how you decide to grow. Portland picked the only path they knew after years of misfits. Of course they still have to make smart moves, but the major difference is that they have put themselves in position to at least have a shot. That's all I ask my team to do.

I got was venturing into a conversation like this in the Andre Miller thread. When people say we need to get that top pick, it only means we have a chance at a star. Dwight Howard was a top pick. So was Kwame Brown and Olowakandi.

If I had the choice I'd take a team that resembles a team and say the 5-8 pick rather than the top pick and a team that is total chaos.

We are in a situation where we need to drastically change the culture. Can a franchise player come in and change it themselves? Yes, but that is a lot of pressure to put on a guy. I'm more concerned with clearing out the sludge of this organization than I am about what pick we get.

Posted by bitty41:

The Spurs are not paying Michael Finley more than Tim Duncan, and that's what matters.

You absolutely need to pay the right talent. I think the problem with FA and MOST (not all) trades in the salary cap era is you rarely get a chance to acquire the guys you really should pay a ton for cause the team they are already with gets to pay them the most by far.

Tim Duncan is making 19 mil and Finley is making 21 million.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm

Bitty, the Spurs are paying Finley the MLE. That salary comes from the fact that he's still getting his contract from the Dallas Mavericks (he was "amnestied" but he still collects his money).

We are in a situation where we need to drastically change the culture. Can a franchise player come in and change it themselves? Yes, but that is a lot of pressure to put on a guy. I'm more concerned with clearing out the sludge of this organization than I am about what pick we get.

Yes we need to change the culture drastically but there is no player that can do that not while Isiah is here.

Okay so the Dallas Mavericks are overpaying him who also happens to be a very good organization not Spurs level but better then about 95% of the NBA.

Yea Mark Cuban oh how I wish he could buy the Knicks.

Posted by bitty41:

We are in a situation where we need to drastically change the culture. Can a franchise player come in and change it themselves? Yes, but that is a lot of pressure to put on a guy. I'm more concerned with clearing out the sludge of this organization than I am about what pick we get.

Yes we need to change the culture drastically but there is no player that can do that not while Isiah is here.

Isn't that what I just said?

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by joec32033:

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by bitty41:

See Bip I think that is one of the biggest myths going right now in the NBA. Fans are under the impression that you attain all these high draft picks and these guys will stick around grow together then they'll be winning Championships or contending for titles 4 or 5 years down the road. Thats a myth imo because eventually money, more spotlight, more shots, more personal accolades send these guys to other organizations.

Its not like it use to be where guys stayed with the same team for their entire career now thats become very rare even for top fleet players. Steve Nash Jason Kidd, KG, Shaq,Iverson have all been traded some of them multiple times.

This isn't high school or college basketball where you bring in a promising Freshmen class the guys grow together then reach their pinnacle during their Junior or Senior year.

[Edited by - bitty41 on 12-26-2007 10:56 AM]

I'm not perpetuating any myths and have not suggested any. I am under no misconceptions that adding youth and draft picks guarantees you anything. If you post with me a while you will no that my position is completely clear. You can build through the draft, you can build through the free-agent market and you can build through trades. Great organizations usually use all three resources.

But you have to be in position to be successful. You have to give yourself a shot. It depends on your current situation on how you decide to grow. Portland picked the only path they knew after years of misfits. Of course they still have to make smart moves, but the major difference is that they have put themselves in position to at least have a shot. That's all I ask my team to do.

I got was venturing into a conversation like this in the Andre Miller thread. When people say we need to get that top pick, it only means we have a chance at a star. Dwight Howard was a top pick. So was Kwame Brown and Olowakandi.

If I had the choice I'd take a team that resembles a team and say the 5-8 pick rather than the top pick and a team that is total chaos.

We are in a situation where we need to drastically change the culture. Can a franchise player come in and change it themselves? Yes, but that is a lot of pressure to put on a guy. I'm more concerned with clearing out the sludge of this organization than I am about what pick we get.

A culture change is in order. That starts with Isiah. I look at this team with almost the coach being a secondary piece to the puzzle. Isiah needs to go. I would LOVE to get Carlisle, Skiles or Fratello here. Problem is these "Franchise" players, are hard to come by, thre are only a few(Kobe, Iverson, Kidd(he's on the down end), Duncan, LeBron, Wade) these are Franchise guys. Some of the other's are second tier guys that need a much better supporting staff to carry a team anywhere.

I'd prefer to build a TEAM that can compete (to me that is a million times easier and less luck dependant if you know what you are doing), a la the Pistons.

I said from the start I hated the Curry-Randolph thing because it's not a fit. Always preferred Lee substituted for at least one of those guys. That's one of the reasons I would pull the trigger on an Andre/Dalembert trade in a minute.

At some point this team has to be built to fit together. Hoping we get the first pick throws a kid into the middle of chaos in NY. So instead of a guy whose talent is up to par that we can slowly(relative term) bring along, a #1 pick is going to be viewed as a savior. We need a kid mentally tough enough to handle that-which decreases to me, exponentially, the chances that whoever we pick will flourish here-especially if he is coming into a team as structurally flawed as us.

Build a solid base of a team. Instead of the 1st pick, use the 5th or 6th or 7th pick. Much less pressure. Much better supporting staff. Much better for any rookie we get, IMO.

I'm so conflicted. Every day I used to come on here screaming "balance the roster",and "change the culture first" and "trim the fat" and "there are no saviors" and "rebuilding means changing the core, not start all over with the draft" and "there is no magical coach to fix this" and "there is no magical line-up to fix this". I screamed it so much that people got sick of it. I used to post the same thing 4-5 times in a row responding to myself. They told me they got it and that I needed to post something else.

Now I'm starting to realize why I never should have stopped

1.) People are openly quoting me and claiming it as their own.
2.) People now think that I feel the opposite

I think it's time for the old preachy Bip to come back to the site and teach the young pups a lesson.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 26-12-2007 2:57 PM]