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Randolf has been a breath of fresh air & once he gets consistant time with this team...
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colorfl1
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11/20/2007  12:54 PM
Posted by nixluva:

I really can't believe the offbase opinions of Zach i'm reading. The guy is not even playing as well a he can and is still a top rebounder in the league and when he's not dead tired and rusty from not playing, burying a love one and flying cross country, he's a top offensive player too.

He hasn't done anything cancer like so that tag doesn't apply. He's been giving max effort, so how is it that he's not a plus for this team when we get the other players doing their job right? You guys are freakin unbelievable. Just cuz the team is losing doesn't mean you have to paint everyone on the team in a bad light. PJ Brown, NOah and Thomas? You mean the same Noah and THomas who aren't helping their Bulls team to win? Give me a break. What is their excuse? What is the Nets excuse? Honestly if you can't understand why Zach isn't at his best then I can't help you.

PREACH IT BROTHER!('');
AUTOADVERT
bitty41
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11/20/2007  1:26 PM
I like anyone who plays hard on both ends: David Lee is one of my favorite players in the league. I like Balkman a lot and like the little I've seen of Chandler and Mardy when he was healthy. Basically, I like the guys on rookie contracts who Isiah almost never plays.

David Lee is that a joke how about this if he can hold the opposing the GS Warrior to under 20 points that talk to me about him playing both ends.

Balkman and Mardy yea they play the defensive side when there not completely outmatched but they have very little to nonexisistent offensive skill.

Face it the guy who plays both ends just does not exist on this roster.

NEXT
bobs3304
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11/20/2007  1:36 PM
Posted by bitty41:



Bobs talk about beating a dead horse. Let me see if I follow everyone acknowledges that Zach isn't franchise material okay fine we all agree.

We also agree that the Knicks have major issues to address the first being firing Isiah, 2nd being unloading Marbury, than on to the actual basketball stuff.

Okay next we all agree that Zach Randolph is hella of better player than Channing Frye was correct or am I wrong in assuming this?

I think we all would also agree that we have no true point guard and don't run particularly effective offensive sets


Finally almost everyone on the team with the exception of maybe Curry has shot poorly

Fine now my question to Bob is what do you expect under these circustances. The guy isn't a franchise player, the franchise is currently lacking in sort of supporting cast, and the franchise is a complete mess. Now please tell me what player in this league could come here RIGHT NOW with Isiah and Marbury (still polluting everything they touch) and would be effective in turning this team around? Wait what player in his right mind would want to be here with this mess?


OK. You wanna throw around your weight as an "ex college player". Fine.

TheThief on RGM, a Euro Player who was invited to Hornets and Magic camp this summer, said in his own opinion that Zach is a cancer and a ballhog who is a, and I quote
glorified Antoine Walker
.


As for your questions:

I don't expect anything out of him b/c we never needed scoring, we never needed rebounding, we damn sure didn't need to take minutes away from David Lee, and we didn't need that hefty ass contract.





[Edited by - bobs3304 on 20-11-2007 1:37 PM]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
newyorknewyork
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11/20/2007  1:46 PM
ZBO has shot the ball 20times per game at a 39.8 clip. With 1.2 assist & 3.0 turn overs to go along with it. Do you guys not see this as a problem.

Either he doesn't care at all which is a problem. Or he greatly lacks understanding on how to play team basketball, which is a problem.

Right now it is looking like Randolph loves to shoot, he doesn't like to pass. And I don't know if we will be the type of player to take a step back in his game to play team basketball. You can't win with players like that.



https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
VDesai
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11/20/2007  1:48 PM
Maybe not Zach Randolph is not the answer, but I don't understand how you guys keep going overboard on him as a team cancer. Criticize his defense fine, but if he was really bogging down our offense, then why:

Do we average 107.1 ppg per 100 possession with him on the court vs. 99.9 without him.

Do we have a net points differential of +9.2 with him on the court vs. off?

Is our effective FG% 2.6% higher with him on the court?

Do 9% more of our FG's off of assists with him on the court?
VDesai
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11/20/2007  1:50 PM
Honestly I know everyone is upset, but on the face of it, Randolph is on of the least of the problems with the team this season.

He's not gonna play worse than he has right now. His game is off, but if you believe in reverting to the mean he can only get better than this.
bitty41
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11/20/2007  2:03 PM
OK. You wanna throw around your weight as an "ex college player". Fine.

Umm calm down King said he was impressed that I knew Steve Burtt and Iona.
TheThief on RGM, a Euro Player who was invited to Hornets and Magic camp this summer, said in his own opinion that Zach is a cancer and a ballhog who is a, and I quote

Bobs just speaking as someone who cares you spend too much time at this if your able to recall people's comments from other random message boards. But im not sure why I should care about this guy's opinion believe me the whole Iona thing was all very conversational and not "I know more than you" type thing

I don't expect anything out of him b/c we never needed scoring, we never needed rebounding, we damn sure didn't need to take minutes away from David Lee, and we didn't need that hefty ass contract.
I care about his opinion because?

David Lee IMO is not yet starting material in this league. He does not defend particularly well and I question what his numbers would be going against guys like KG, Chris Bosh, Carlos Boozer, Tim Duncan, Jermaine O'Neal 35 minutes a night versus some bench player. Whereas Randolph we all know he can put up numbers against the best in the league he did it for 5 seasons in Portland and yes Portland's record was atrocious but he still can play with the best of them. People need to get over their love affair of David Lee not saying that he's a bad player just a ROLE PLAYER, you hear that ROLE PLAYER. Randolph is the only one among our forwards that has any touch from the outside. And I think once you start developing a more clear and concise offensive scheme Zach's turnovers and bad shot selection could decrease.
bobs3304
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11/20/2007  2:08 PM
^ Are you on crack sir?

First youre dogging me b/c I "remember stuff"?

Thank you for the compliment, can I have another...


Second, that last bit was MY OPINION, not his. And you can spin your way out of the conversation, but David Lee is more important to this franchise than Zach or Eddy is, and that in itself is just sad.

B/c David Lee is a rich man's Anderson Verajeo at best...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
VDesai
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11/20/2007  2:18 PM
So now that we're done with our unwarranted dogging of Zach, lets begin with our unwarranted dogging of David Lee!
bitty41
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11/20/2007  2:26 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

^ Are you on crack sir?

First youre dogging me b/c I "remember stuff"?

Thank you for the compliment, can I have another...


Second, that last bit was MY OPINION, not his. And you can spin your way out of the conversation, but David Lee is more important to this franchise than Zach or Eddy is, and that in itself is just sad.

B/c David Lee is a rich man's Anderson Verajeo at best...


Bobs calm down there's no reason to get your blood pressure up over Zach Randolph its just that I didn't see the relevance of some random guy from some other board.

Hey you believe that David Lee is more important to this franchise than Curry and Randolph believe what you want I don't care. But in MY OPINION I think its entirely too early to draw any conclusions about whose more important or less important to the franchise.


For future references Im not a sir.

[Edited by - bitty41 on 11-20-2007 2:30 PM]
bobs3304
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11/20/2007  2:54 PM
Posted by bitty41:


For future references Im not a sir.


Sweet.

DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
newyorknewyork
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11/20/2007  2:57 PM
When we beat Denver.

Zach's stat line was

9-15
60% from the field
17 rebs
22pts
He had 0 assist. But if you watched the game you saw him pass the ball out of the post way more which was credited in him only shooting 15attempts. He may have not got the assist, but he kept good offensive ball movement.

Our only win vs a quality team. Zach shot the ball 15 times. 5 less than what he is averaging at this point.

I don't want Randolph at his career fg%. Since becoming a starter, his hightest fg% is 48.5%. Followed by 44.8%, 43.6%, 46.7. Those are Guards & small foward type averages. The only time he put up 50% from the field for a season was when he was a role player playing 16mins a game. A player of Zach's skill and talent should be shooting 50-55% from the field on a consistant basis. A person with Zach's skill and talent should be averaging 3assist per game.

Give me 15attempts, 52fg%, 3assist, 10-12rebs. 52% of 15attempts would be 7.8fgs made, that = 15.6pts. He should also get about 5-6ft attempts per and make 3-4. Which would = a total of 18.6-19.6pts.
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BlueSeats
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11/20/2007  3:08 PM
I know I'll be accused of being white for pointing this out, but Lee actually had a higher per48 Efficiency rating last season than Zach

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/new-york-knicks/players/david-lee/profile/07/20/292

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/portland-trail-blazers/players/zach-randolph/profile/07/24/350


and looking at their 82games +/- stats Lee made a greater contribution to his team's success.


http://www.82games.com/0607/06NYK10D.HTM

http://www.82games.com/0607/06POR12D.HTM
nyk4ever
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11/20/2007  3:10 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:

I know I'll be accused of being white for pointing this out, but Lee actually had a higher per48 Efficiency rating last season than Zach

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/new-york-knicks/players/david-lee/profile/07/20/292

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/portland-trail-blazers/players/zach-randolph/profile/07/24/350


and looking at their 82games +/- stats Lee made a greater contribution to his team's success.


http://www.82games.com/0607/06NYK10D.HTM

http://www.82games.com/0607/06POR12D.HTM

Paste those funky stats white boooooooy.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
bitty41
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11/20/2007  3:14 PM
NewYork

Every player in this league goes through very rough spots throughout the season. Look what he's walked ino a no passing, non shooting, and off the court drama. But of course this has no relevance because hey Zach sucks and Knick fans only need 6 games to tell them everything they need to know about a player right?
bobs3304
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11/20/2007  3:17 PM
No one said he sucks. Lol, where do some of you get these comments from jesus.

And 6 games?


More like 6 years...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
bitty41
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11/20/2007  3:21 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:

I know I'll be accused of being white for pointing this out, but Lee actually had a higher per48 Efficiency rating last season than Zach

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/new-york-knicks/players/david-lee/profile/07/20/292

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/portland-trail-blazers/players/zach-randolph/profile/07/24/350


and looking at their 82games +/- stats Lee made a greater contribution to his team's success.


http://www.82games.com/0607/06NYK10D.HTM

http://www.82games.com/0607/06POR12D.HTM

Racist!
bitty41
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11/20/2007  3:27 PM
Bobs gets some Xanax
oohah
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11/20/2007  3:48 PM
Steve Burtt.

That brings memories back!

I think King was referring to the original Steve Burtt, who was an excellent college player, and would have been a pretty good NBA player, but was unable to stick because of his personal problems.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
newyorknewyork
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11/20/2007  3:54 PM
Posted by bitty41:

NewYork

Every player in this league goes through very rough spots throughout the season. Look what he's walked ino a no passing, non shooting, and off the court drama. But of course this has no relevance because hey Zach sucks and Knick fans only need 6 games to tell them everything they need to know about a player right?

His rap from Portland was that he was a black hole on offense, played little defense, & couldn't play team ball. He comes to NY and in 5 out of 6 games he has played like a black hole on offense, played little defense, & doesn't seem to play team ball.

Its up to Zach to prove that he is cappable of doing it. Yes the turmoil and players around him is a valid concern. But I at least want to see him do his part and see the effort in trying to play team ball. Thats the difference with Lee. He could easily use all this turmoil the last few seasons and weak guard play the last few seasons as a crutch. But yet he continues to play efficently within his skill level. He continues to play team basketball and make a positive difference.

I won't make the Marbury mistake again.

[Edited by - newyorknewyork on 11-20-2007 3:55 PM]
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Randolf has been a breath of fresh air & once he gets consistant time with this team...
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