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nichols asked to be cut?
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Masterplan
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10/25/2007  9:53 AM
Posted by RemBee76:

I think, to be fair, if we are going to talk about how Isiah ****ed Nichols by drafting him and then (potentially) setting him loose, we should also raise the point that Nichols ****ed the Knicks by agreeing to play in Europe for a season, then backing out of that agreement after playing well in the Summer League.

dude! i don't think that's fair at all. i thought his since-fired agent made the agreement behind his back. please don't make d-nice out to be the bad guy to defend isiah, unless you know something about it that i don't.

anyway, i wouldn't go as far as to say isiah ****ed nichols. if anything, he ****ed himself by clogging his roster with dead weight so he can't take a shot on guys like this.
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martin
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10/25/2007  10:00 AM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by misterearl:

Solace - is the immature name-calling really that crucial to your point?

When a poster spends all of his time following "haters" around to complain about how the "haters" post; yes, actually, it's relevant.

Kamwhore needs a new gimmick, because his current one is getting real old.
Posted by misterearl:

The final cuts are not due until the 29th. This frenzy over defending Nichols, driven by speculation, would lead one to think Isiah just drafted - and is getting ready to cut Julius Erving.

You have a point that it's speculation. But, we have all seen that Nichols can play. There is no excuse for Nichols not making the roster. As for outrage, what's more surprising is the lack of outrage at the potential of losing an awesome shooter, which is something that many felt was the Knicks biggest need.

yo Solace, enough with the name-calling already.
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RemBee76
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10/25/2007  10:14 AM
Posted by Masterplan:
dude! i don't think that's fair at all. i thought his since-fired agent made the agreement behind his back.

Come on, lets use our noggins. What agent on earth would do a thing like that and expect to retain his client? There is no way Nichols' agent made any kind of agreement with Isiah without getting some kind of indication from him that it was ok.

Maybe it was a miscommunication, but that seems doubtful. More likely Nichols reconsidered the agreement and his agent didn't want to go back on his word and damage his relationship with an NBA GM, so they parted ways.
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Michael6835
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10/25/2007  10:20 AM
Nichols has all the makings of a primadonna, the funny thing about it is he hasn't proven a damm thing. All I keep hearing is he is the real deal, what is he really ? Honestly, if he was the "real deal" he would have been drafted in the 1ST ROUND, not fall all the way to the 2nd. So this crap about he is going to be the guy to burn us and how he was the savior is pure rubbish.
I also keep hearing about how Thomas drafted him with the intentions of stashing him in Europe. Whose fault is it, a player hires an agent to negotiate on his behalf. If Thomas and the agent had an agreement, it was safe to assume that Thomas and Nichols had an agreement. Obviously, this agent must of also known what the value of Nichols stock is and thus thought it would be beneficial to go get some experience overseas. My take on what probably happened was, Nichols at the time he was drafted AGREED in principal with his agent to go to Europe for 1yr. After the good outing at the SL, he decides that he wants to change his mind, so he fires this agent and gets an agent that will go with the new plan. He broke the verbal agreement and now is sitting on the bench. Honestly, the guy has a very big EGO ala Terell Owens. The only thing is he is not Terell Owens, he is Demetrius Nichols. Say that name anywhere outside of Knick land, you'll get a who?

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Masterplan
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10/25/2007  10:20 AM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by Masterplan:
dude! i don't think that's fair at all. i thought his since-fired agent made the agreement behind his back.

Come on, lets use our noggins. What agent on earth would do a thing like that and expect to retain his client? There is no way Nichols' agent made any kind of agreement with Isiah without getting some kind of indication from him that it was ok.

Maybe it was a miscommunication, but that seems doubtful. More likely Nichols reconsidered the agreement and his agent didn't want to go back on his word and damage his relationship with an NBA GM, so they parted ways.

so all that is speculation and you don't know anything i didn't. thanks for clearing that up!
Andrew
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10/25/2007  10:22 AM
Can anyone list any 2nd round picks that have decided to go to Europe at the request of the drafting team so their rights could be retainied?
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Michael6835
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10/25/2007  10:23 AM
Posted by Masterplan:
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by Masterplan:
dude! i don't think that's fair at all. i thought his since-fired agent made the agreement behind his back.

Come on, lets use our noggins. What agent on earth would do a thing like that and expect to retain his client? There is no way Nichols' agent made any kind of agreement with Isiah without getting some kind of indication from him that it was ok.

Maybe it was a miscommunication, but that seems doubtful. More likely Nichols reconsidered the agreement and his agent didn't want to go back on his word and damage his relationship with an NBA GM, so they parted ways.

so all that is speculation and you don't know anything i didn't. thanks for clearing that up!

He has a point, even though it is speculation. Why would an agent blatantly go behind the players back and agree to send him overseas. The agent works for the player, the scenario of DNic backing out on the agreement sounds more plausible.
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Michael6835
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10/25/2007  10:24 AM
Posted by Andrew:

Can anyone list any 2nd round picks that have decided to go to Europe at the request of the drafting team so their rights could be retainied?

Can anyone name at least 10 2nd round pics that were actually the "real deal"

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Masterplan
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10/25/2007  10:28 AM
Posted by Michael6835:

Nichols has all the makings of a primadonna,

how so? are you going by anything other than the "if you won't play me in practice, cut me" request?
the funny thing about it is he hasn't proven a damm thing. All I keep hearing is he is the real deal, what is he really ? Honestly, if he was the "real deal" he would have been drafted in the 1ST ROUND, not fall all the way to the 2nd. So this crap about he is going to be the guy to burn us and how he was the savior is pure rubbish.

that's ridiculous, man. tell that "1st round" crap to gil arenas, redd, boozer etc. good players can come from any stage of the draft. d-nice has *proven* more than a lot of first round picks... more than wilson chandler, if you will. he was a great college player with the physical tools to be a good SG. he's the kind of player you give a legit shot at making your roster. maybe some posters are going overboard on his potential. but you have to admit you'd rather have him around than jerome james and his one knee.
I also keep hearing about how Thomas drafted him with the intentions of stashing him in Europe. Whose fault is it, a player hires an agent to negotiate on his behalf. If Thomas and the agent had an agreement, it was safe to assume that Thomas and Nichols had an agreement. Obviously, this agent must of also known what the value of Nichols stock is and thus thought it would be beneficial to go get some experience overseas. My take on what probably happened was, Nichols at the time he was drafted AGREED in principal with his agent to go to Europe for 1yr. After the good outing at the SL, he decides that he wants to change his mind, so he fires this agent and gets an agent that will go with the new plan. He broke the verbal agreement and now is sitting on the bench. Honestly, the guy has a very big EGO ala Terell Owens. The only thing is he is not Terell Owens, he is Demetrius Nichols. Say that name anywhere outside of Knick land, you'll get a who?

so there's no way this agent could have been unethical or incompetent? your theory is no more likely than any of those other possibilities. and you're wrong, he's "Demetris Nichols"
playa2
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10/25/2007  10:29 AM
Posted by Michael6835:

Nichols has all the makings of a primadonna, the funny thing about it is he hasn't proven a damm thing. All I keep hearing is he is the real deal, what is he really ? Honestly, if he was the "real deal" he would have been drafted in the 1ST ROUND, not fall all the way to the 2nd. So this crap about he is going to be the guy to burn us and how he was the savior is pure rubbish.

The NYPost has learned a major reason rookie Demetris Nichols' draft stock fell from a first-round bubble pick to a late second-rounder (53) was a false medical test he took at Orlando's pre-draft camp in which he tested positive for hepatitis C.
After the Knicks traded for his rights, the test came back clean.

There's your #1 pick, he just got a bad rep on a bogus test.

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
Michael6835
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10/25/2007  10:45 AM
Posted by Masterplan:
Posted by Michael6835:

Nichols has all the makings of a primadonna,

how so? are you going by anything other than the "if you won't play me in practice, cut me" request?
the funny thing about it is he hasn't proven a damm thing. All I keep hearing is he is the real deal, what is he really ? Honestly, if he was the "real deal" he would have been drafted in the 1ST ROUND, not fall all the way to the 2nd. So this crap about he is going to be the guy to burn us and how he was the savior is pure rubbish.

that's ridiculous, man. tell that "1st round" crap to gil arenas, redd, boozer etc. good players can come from any stage of the draft. d-nice has *proven* more than a lot of first round picks... more than wilson chandler, if you will. he was a great college player with the physical tools to be a good SG. he's the kind of player you give a legit shot at making your roster. maybe some posters are going overboard on his potential. but you have to admit you'd rather have him around than jerome james and his one knee.
I also keep hearing about how Thomas drafted him with the intentions of stashing him in Europe. Whose fault is it, a player hires an agent to negotiate on his behalf. If Thomas and the agent had an agreement, it was safe to assume that Thomas and Nichols had an agreement. Obviously, this agent must of also known what the value of Nichols stock is and thus thought it would be beneficial to go get some experience overseas. My take on what probably happened was, Nichols at the time he was drafted AGREED in principal with his agent to go to Europe for 1yr. After the good outing at the SL, he decides that he wants to change his mind, so he fires this agent and gets an agent that will go with the new plan. He broke the verbal agreement and now is sitting on the bench. Honestly, the guy has a very big EGO ala Terell Owens. The only thing is he is not Terell Owens, he is Demetrius Nichols. Say that name anywhere outside of Knick land, you'll get a who?

so there's no way this agent could have been unethical or incompetent? your theory is no more likely than any of those other possibilities. and you're wrong, he's "Demetris Nichols"

I agree we should cut Jerome James, but what I don't agree with is the way in which everyone is all over his ish.

Oh and nobody still can tell me why on earth would his agent send him to europe. Ethics has nothing to do with it, he gains nothing if nichols says no( which he did) and fires him. He gets his money when he DNick is signed to a contract. It would be naive to think that someone would be that stupid. I think Nichols backed out of the Europe deal, which I could see the knicks saying we will draft you if you goto Europe for a year. Nichols wanting to get a foot in the door agrees to anything. Sure its speculation, but it is a good hell of a theory.
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Masterplan
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10/25/2007  10:54 AM
a lot of european players aren't eager to come play in the states because on their rookie (especially 2nd rounder) pay scale they'd make less. nichols was a top collegiate scorer, a shooter, four year player, definitely attractive to european clubs. if his agent thinks he gets his client drafted AND gets a cut of a heftier european salary, maybe he doesn't disclose all to the kid.

plausible, yes?
islesfan
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10/25/2007  10:54 AM
Posted by Michael6835:
Posted by Andrew:

Can anyone list any 2nd round picks that have decided to go to Europe at the request of the drafting team so their rights could be retainied?

Can anyone name at least 10 2nd round pics that were actually the "real deal"

Monta Ellis
Ryan Gomes
Anderson Varejao
Jason Kapono
Luke Walton
Steve Blake
Carlos Boozer
Gilbert Arenas
Mehmet Okur
Brian Scalabrine
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Masterplan
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10/25/2007  10:58 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Michael6835:
Posted by Andrew:

Can anyone list any 2nd round picks that have decided to go to Europe at the request of the drafting team so their rights could be retainied?

Can anyone name at least 10 2nd round pics that were actually the "real deal"

Monta Ellis
Ryan Gomes
Anderson Varejao
Jason Kapono
Luke Walton
Steve Blake
Carlos Boozer
Gilbert Arenas
Mehmet Okur
Brian Scalabrine

you forgot mike redd, shard lewis, manu ginobili

also, just the first google result:

http://www.bullz-eye.com/sports/features/2006/nba_best_second_round_picks.htm

EDIT: for the record, not saying he'd be anywhere near as good as some of those guys. i'm just advocating giving him a fair shot. one full season and reevaluate.

[Edited by - Masterplan on 10-25-2007 10:59 AM]
islesfan
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10/25/2007  11:02 AM
As for the agent, why exactly would Nichols agree to give up a year of NBA eligibility to go to Europe on the hope that the Knicks would give him a guaranteed contract after that? All months before training camp would even start? Just to help out the Knicks and Isiah? That doesn't make any sense but some people will believe it and suggest that others are stupid if they don't.
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RemBee76
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10/25/2007  11:15 AM
Posted by Masterplan:
if his agent thinks he gets his client drafted AND gets a cut of a heftier european salary, maybe he doesn't disclose all to the kid.

plausible, yes?

No.

Its speculation, but speculation based on common sense. I simply don’t find it plausible that an agent would make a deal to send a player to Europe, then spring that deal on his client expecting him to be ok with that.

There simply had to be some discussion between the two on the matter beforehand.

And Andrew, I don’t think it rare for second rounders to go to Europe. I don’t have the numbers for you, sorry. I think the practice will only increase now that NBDL players count on your roster.



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eViL
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10/25/2007  11:21 AM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by Masterplan:
if his agent thinks he gets his client drafted AND gets a cut of a heftier european salary, maybe he doesn't disclose all to the kid.

plausible, yes?

No.

Its speculation, but speculation based on common sense. I simply don’t find it plausible that an agent would make a deal to send a player to Europe, then spring that deal on his client expecting him to be ok with that.

There simply had to be some discussion between the two on the matter beforehand.

And Andrew, I don’t think it rare for second rounders to go to Europe. I don’t have the numbers for you, sorry. I think the practice will only increase now that NBDL players count on your roster.

I think you overestimate the respect that these agents have for their clients. These agents probably look at guys like DNic as pawns. They expect these kids to just follow along with whatever "professional" advice their agent gives them. Is it far-fetched that some slick agent with a law degree would expect his 20 year old, fresh out of school, never dealt with real negotiations, athlete client to accept his advice and go to Europe? I think it's perfectly plausible that this agent didn't respect DNic at all and, if anything, the agent was probably trying to develop his own relationship with Isiah and the Knicks because it could serve him well in the future. Agents are not angels.
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RemBee76
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10/25/2007  11:23 AM
Posted by islesfan:

As for the agent, why exactly would Nichols agree to give up a year of NBA eligibility to go to Europe on the hope that the Knicks would give him a guaranteed contract after that? All months before training camp would even start? Just to help out the Knicks and Isiah? That doesn't make any sense but some people will believe it and suggest that others are stupid if they don't.

Yeah, why help out the team that drafted you while gainig valuable experience playing in a skilled league when you otherwise would have been sitting on the bench all season.

That would be just crazy.

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Michael6835
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10/25/2007  11:24 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Michael6835:
Posted by Andrew:

Can anyone list any 2nd round picks that have decided to go to Europe at the request of the drafting team so their rights could be retainied?

Can anyone name at least 10 2nd round pics that were actually the "real deal"

Monta Ellis
Ryan Gomes
Anderson Varejao
Jason Kapono
Luke Walton
Steve Blake
Carlos Boozer
Gilbert Arenas
Mehmet Okur
Brian Scalabrine

isles, i said real deal.

I only see gilbert arenas, boozer and okur. The others are simply role players.
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Andrew
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10/25/2007  11:26 AM
Rem, I don't think it is rare for players to go there. I think many do after they have been cut from a team and no other NBA teams deem them good enough for a shot. I also don't think that this is the scenario that Nichols is facing. IMO he is good enough to make an NBA roster.

The NBADL roster counting thing is not new right?...and I'm not looking for numbers....just one or two examples.
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