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islesfan
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10/23/2007  8:35 PM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by toodarkmark:
Dont call us haters because we see reality and present it.

Frankly you have far too lofty a view of yourself if you think your views are "reality." They are opinions, and many of the opinions presented by self described "haters" (I say self-described because I have yet to refer to anyone as a hater who hasn't already proudly hoisted that term on themselves) are flawed. So don't call us "lovers" if we point those flaws out.

Is it reality to say the Knicks only showed progress last season because of an easier schedule when the records of the teams they played during that period averaged out to the Eastern Conference average, when over half of those teams ended up making the playoffs, or when that period actually included one of the toughest stretches of the season, a stretch that had the Knicks win one game above .500?

Your version of "reality" says a 41 win record and a playoff berth means "nothing". I think the "reality" is that our team would be in the playoffs for the first time in three years, and a .500 record would constitute real progress from the previous season.

Or is it that in your "reality" a 41 win record is the team's ceiling? You are free to have that opinion, but when you present that opinion as "reality" I think I'm free to call you a pretentious blowhard. Is that better than "hater?"

"Haters" aren't self-described. They're saying it as a way to mock the people who call them haters.

The reality of the "easier schedule" is that the average record of those opponents wouldn't have been good enough to get into the playoffs. If it included "one of the toughest stretches of the season" then there must have been quite a few stretches against some very bad teams to balance it out. Just because a team plays well during a stretch of games doesn't mean much. The Larry Brown Knicks won 6 games in a row the year before, did that mean anything? Bad teams go on good runs all the time but eventually there is regression to their mean. That's what happened to the Knicks after their good stretch.

What's the reality of 40 wins and no playoffs?

So are you ever going to look to eradicate the straw men who find it unreasonable for people to be disgruntled by the current state of the Knicks? Or how about the people who say that a person can't be a true Knicks fan if they're unhappy with anything associated with the Knicks?

If you're going to be righteous on your soapbox, at least be fair about it. Even if it means criticizing yourself, the way you love to criticize others.

[Edited by - islesfan on 10-23-2007 8:36 PM]
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
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CrushAlot
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10/23/2007  8:48 PM
If hating Isiah and his life long tenure with the team despite being incompetent, immoral, unsuccessful, unprofessional, arrogant, and ineffective qualifies me as a hater sign me up. The reality is that some smaller market teams would have probably folded under his mismanagement. His tremendous character flaws are just an added bonus that the Dolans also support financially and philosophically.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
islesfan
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10/23/2007  8:54 PM
Posted by CrushAlot:

If hating Isiah and his life long tenure with the team despite being incompetent, immoral, unsuccessful, unprofessional, arrogant, and ineffective qualifies me as a hater sign me up. The reality is that some smaller market teams would have probably folded under his mismanagement. His tremendous character flaws are just an added bonus that the Dolans also support financially and philosophically.

That just makes you grounded in reality.

If you don't think that Isiah has been incompetent, immoral, unsuccessful, unprofessional, arrogant, and ineffective, it makes you delusional.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TrueBlue
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10/23/2007  11:02 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by TrueBlue:

If you want use the LB season and excuses as a barometer from which to improve go ahead but I refuse to, my standards are higher than yours and will be..... ALWAYS AND FOREVER!
It's hard to address all the BS you spout. You're standards aren't higher, you're just a blowhard who get's off on ragging on this team. You assume that i'm ok with losing or mediocrity, when in fact i've never said that. I just don't get off on bashing my team especially when there's much to look forward to on this roster. You don't like many of the players, we get that. You don't like Isiah, we get that. In fact your act is tiresome. Let's just cut to the chase.

Do you think we as fans should have a reasonable expectation that this team will win more games this year or not? Do you think this team has a realistic chance to make the playoffs and that we as fans should expect just that and nothing less? If you do then there's really nothing to argue about. What I question is your rationale for endlessly bashing the team over the past and some preseason losses. Get with the program. It's a NEW SEASON and so far they've only played PRESEASON games. How about we see what the team actually does this year? You're convinced this team is no better than the team it's been the last 2 years and I disagree.

You don't like the players on this team and I do. I actually like Zach, Lee, Curry, Nate, Balkman and Chandler. I don't have a problem with Steph, Q or Jamal. If they play poorly i'll say so. While they have a Knick uni on i'll cheer for them to succeed. I loved the knicks before most of these players were born and i'll still love this team when they're gone.

It's not hard to address my issues stop copping out on what you don't want to Man Up on.


Thanks for not addressing my Steve Francis example because you know it applies to the very thing you're doing now. You were dead wrong on that situation and many tried to tell not just you so but others who favored the move and others like it. Yes last yr and the yrs before are a thing of the past but for those who base their projections on the previous yrs and current happenings are very rational fans. It's ok that you don't want to bash the team, I have no problem with it personally but don't flip that into thinking a so called hater is irrational in his thinking because there's more evidence in their favor, it's a cold hard ACTUAL FACTUAL EMBRACE IT! Many sport analysts across the nation who cover the NBA daily and have even greater insight on the Knicks and other teams vs many of us fans usually have the same projections as a so called Hater.


Let's me review this with you again and let it sink into your soggy cabbage this time.


I Dislike

I SAY UGH
MARBURY
EY
NATE
JAMES

I'm indifferent to

CRAWFORD
JEFFRIES
JONES
MORRIS
NICHOLS
JORDAN


I Like

LEE
BALKMAN
CHANDLER
ROSE
Q
MARDY


Notice the trend in the players I like? Players who give their best at all times, even if they happen to be limited in their abilities and play both sides of the ball to the best of their ability. Now much of the bashing surfaces because we have Nuthugging Homers come on this board and post crap like "Marbury Turned The Corner Last Yr Let's Give Him Props" or "The NBA Hates Our Players Curry Should Have Been An All-Star" or "We Can Present The Best Package 4 Kobe" or "Zach Randolph=Willis Reed".


I think the team will win 37-38gms you think they'll win 42-43gms not that big of margin between us but you love everything about this team and it's a shame your win total isn't higher although they should be a 50win team. We should expect the playoffs but looking at the landscape of the east in which it got considerably better, I feel it's unrealistic to think they are a lock to make the playoffs and I don't feel they will.



[Edited by - TrueBlue on 10-23-2007 10:06 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Nalod
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10/23/2007  11:28 PM
This thread has become:

"A Young Persons Guide To Knick Fans Complex".

Tangable results vs. Hope. An arguement for the ages.

Let the Games begin!
Papabear
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10/23/2007  11:39 PM
Posted by CrushAlot:

If hating Isiah and his life long tenure with the team despite being incompetent, immoral, unsuccessful, unprofessional, arrogant, and ineffective qualifies me as a hater sign me up. The reality is that some smaller market teams would have probably folded under his mismanagement. His tremendous character flaws are just an added bonus that the Dolans also support financially and philosophically.

Papabear Says

You must not know too much about the NBA and remember these teams have insurance to protect them.
Basketball in the USA is just a game. On a serious note in some countries haters killed sports players just because they lost some games. To be a hater ain't no joke. It dangerous. I repeat it's just a game. Zeke in his own mind thinks he is doing his best. You can be a hater but that is no badge of honor.

Papabear

Papabear
Papabear
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10/23/2007  11:44 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by TrueBlue:

If you want use the LB season and excuses as a barometer from which to improve go ahead but I refuse to, my standards are higher than yours and will be..... ALWAYS AND FOREVER!
It's hard to address all the BS you spout. You're standards aren't higher, you're just a blowhard who get's off on ragging on this team. You assume that i'm ok with losing or mediocrity, when in fact i've never said that. I just don't get off on bashing my team especially when there's much to look forward to on this roster. You don't like many of the players, we get that. You don't like Isiah, we get that. In fact your act is tiresome. Let's just cut to the chase.

Do you think we as fans should have a reasonable expectation that this team will win more games this year or not? Do you think this team has a realistic chance to make the playoffs and that we as fans should expect just that and nothing less? If you do then there's really nothing to argue about. What I question is your rationale for endlessly bashing the team over the past and some preseason losses. Get with the program. It's a NEW SEASON and so far they've only played PRESEASON games. How about we see what the team actually does this year? You're convinced this team is no better than the team it's been the last 2 years and I disagree.

You don't like the players on this team and I do. I actually like Zach, Lee, Curry, Nate, Balkman and Chandler. I don't have a problem with Steph, Q or Jamal. If they play poorly i'll say so. While they have a Knick uni on i'll cheer for them to succeed. I loved the knicks before most of these players were born and i'll still love this team when they're gone.

It's not hard to address my issues stop copping out on what you don't want to Man Up on.


Thanks for not addressing my Steve Francis example because you know it applies to the very thing you're doing now. You were dead wrong on that situation and many tried to tell not just you so but others who favored the move and others like it. Yes last yr and the yrs before are a thing of the past but for those who base their projections on the previous yrs and current happenings are very rational fans. It's ok that you don't want to bash the team, I have no problem with it personally but don't flip that into thinking a so called hater is irrational in his thinking because there's more evidence in their favor, it's a cold hard ACTUAL FACTUAL EMBRACE IT! Many sport analysts across the nation who cover the NBA daily and have even greater insight on the Knicks and other teams vs many of us fans usually have the same projections as a so called Hater.


Let's me review this with you again and let it sink into your soggy cabbage this time.


I Dislike

I SAY UGH
MARBURY
EY
NATE
JAMES

I'm indifferent to

CRAWFORD
JEFFRIES
JONES
MORRIS
NICHOLS
JORDAN


I Like

LEE
BALKMAN
CHANDLER
ROSE
Q
MARDY


Notice the trend in the players I like? Players who give their best at all times, even if they happen to be limited in their abilities and play both sides of the ball to the best of their ability. Now much of the bashing surfaces because we have Nuthugging Homers come on this board and post crap like "Marbury Turned The Corner Last Yr Let's Give Him Props" or "The NBA Hates Our Players Curry Should Have Been An All-Star" or "We Can Present The Best Package 4 Kobe" or "Zach Randolph=Willis Reed".


I think the team will win 37-38gms you think they'll win 42-43gms not that big of margin between us but you love everything about this team and it's a shame your win total isn't higher although they should be a 50win team. We should expect the playoffs but looking at the landscape of the east in which it got considerably better, I feel it's unrealistic to think they are a lock to make the playoffs and I don't feel they will.



[Edited by - TrueBlue on 10-23-2007 10:06 PM]

Papabear Says

Stop trying to justify a sad way to give reason why you hat. It ain't working. The very same guys you hate like Zeke and Marbs and the others will play a very important part in us making the playoffs and you will still be trying to explaine youself.

Papabear

Papabear
Papabear
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10/23/2007  11:56 PM
Papabear Says

I will never believe that TrueBlue is a Knicks fan. Read the players he picked as his favorites. They would win nothing.
TrueBlue you are like a dark cloud on a sunny day. The anger and hate you have for these players is a concern. Really I don't think that you are a true Knicks fan. It's OK to be upset when your team looses or your coach picked wrong players, but you cross the line.

Papabear
Papabear
Panos
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10/23/2007  11:56 PM
Don't hat on me!
TrueBlue
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10/24/2007  12:10 AM
Posted by Papabear:

Papabear Says

I will never believe that TrueBlue is a Knicks fan. Read the players he picked as his favorites. They would win nothing.
TrueBlue you are like a dark cloud on a sunny day. The anger and hate you have for these players is a concern. Really I don't think that you are a true Knicks fan. It's OK to be upset when your team looses or your coach picked wrong players, but you cross the line.

Papabear

Perfect example of what I'm talking about. This is really RIDICULOUS and SAD. Are you saying the players I like are the same ones other teams have tried to trade for and were rejected on their passes? PDX, IND, and New Jersey wanted David Lee.... New Jersey and it's believed Sacramento wanted/wants Balkman. We've told them no so far. And if the players I like would never win anything can you explain the players you like.... what have they won not only as a Knick but throughout their whole playing career?

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 10-23-2007 11:25 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
nixluva
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10/24/2007  12:25 AM
Posted by TrueBlue:

I think the team will win 37-38gms you think they'll win 42-43gms not that big of margin between us but you love everything about this team and it's a shame your win total isn't higher although they should be a 50win team. We should expect the playoffs but looking at the landscape of the east in which it got considerably better, I feel it's unrealistic to think they are a lock to make the playoffs and I don't feel they will.
I'm actually on record SEVERAL times as saying I think they'll win 46 games. Why can't you ever get things right, when you're quoting me? As i've said, perhaps you should refrain from doing that, cuz you're wrong most of the time. Who cares tho. Predicting win totals is meaningless. It's only a prediction.

I expect this team to play harder and execute better this year. I expect that the CONSIDERABLE talent we have will show itself more consistently this year.
The thing is that I support the team and unless there a valid reason for me not to like a player ie Jerome James, I don't go out of my way to bash the TEAM as if there are no good players on it. In my view there are a lot of players to like on this team. You're free to dislike anyone you like, but don't expect me to agree with you. Don't expect me not to call you on it when you're going way overboard in bashing the team.

If the team wins I continue on as the same fan i've always been, what will you're positon be if this team wins? Will you continue to use derogatory nicknames and all your usual schtick? Will you jump on the bandwagon late and support the team like a real fan or sit on the side and pout like a spoiled brat. I'm not doing that now and didn't do it last year or the year before that. I didn't like the losing, but I remained a true fan. I didn't turn on my own team and wish bad things for them. Yeah I screamed at the TV and got angry, but underneath it all I WANT MY TEAM TO SUCCEED. I don't get all giddy when things go badly for my team and I don't wish for bad things to happen just so Isiah would get fired or certain players get shipped out.

kam77
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10/24/2007  1:00 AM
e have Nuthugging Homers come on this board and post crap like "Marbury Turned The Corner Last Yr Let's Give Him Props" or "The NBA Hates Our Players Curry Should Have Been An All-Star" or "We Can Present The Best Package 4 Kobe" or "Zach Randolph=Willis Reed".

who and when? give it up. there are no such people here. and if they are they are not representative of the average hopeful knick fan.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
Papabear
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10/24/2007  2:00 AM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by Papabear:

Papabear Says

I will never believe that TrueBlue is a Knicks fan. Read the players he picked as his favorites. They would win nothing.
TrueBlue you are like a dark cloud on a sunny day. The anger and hate you have for these players is a concern. Really I don't think that you are a true Knicks fan. It's OK to be upset when your team looses or your coach picked wrong players, but you cross the line.

Papabear

Perfect example of what I'm talking about. This is really RIDICULOUS and SAD. Are you saying the players I like are the same ones other teams have tried to trade for and were rejected on their passes? PDX, IND, and New Jersey wanted David Lee.... New Jersey and it's believed Sacramento wanted/wants Balkman. We've told them no so far. And if the players I like would never win anything can you explain the players you like.... what have they won not only as a Knick but throughout their whole playing career?

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 10-23-2007 11:25 PM]

Papabear Says

As I can remember the last time we won something was in 1973 and you cant blame Zeke because he wasn't in the NBA he was still a little kid. Don't blame Marbs because he wasn't even born yet. So really there is no one to name. I like Lee and Balkman but they win nothing without the rest of the team.
Are you telling me that Marbs is not playing good basketball? Curry will get back on track.

Papabear



[Edited by - Papabear on 10-24-2007 02:02 AM]
Papabear
Panos
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10/24/2007  7:22 AM
Posted by kam77:
e have Nuthugging Homers come on this board and post crap like "Marbury Turned The Corner Last Yr Let's Give Him Props" or "The NBA Hates Our Players Curry Should Have Been An All-Star" or "We Can Present The Best Package 4 Kobe" or "Zach Randolph=Willis Reed".

who and when? give it up. there are no such people here. and if they are they are not representative of the average hopeful knick fan.

Not for nothing, but those quotes have all been said on this board. Maybe just with the exception of the "=" in the Reed one.


[Edited by - panos on 24-10-2007 07:22 AM]
misterearl
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10/24/2007  8:20 AM
Posted by Panos:
Posted by kam77:
e have Nuthugging Homers come on this board and post crap like "Marbury Turned The Corner Last Yr Let's Give Him Props" or "The NBA Hates Our Players Curry Should Have Been An All-Star" or "We Can Present The Best Package 4 Kobe" or "Zach Randolph=Willis Reed".

who and when? give it up. there are no such people here. and if they are they are not representative of the average hopeful knick fan.

Not for nothing, but those quotes have all been said on this board. Maybe just with the exception of the "=" in the Reed one.


[Edited by - panos on 24-10-2007 07:22 AM]

Panos - you simply need to slow down and spend more time with reading comprehension.

The Willis Reed thread was about a comparison of ELEMENTS of the two games.

That is a MAJOR difference from making a judgement that they were/are EQUALS

MAJOR

HUGE

BIG

GIGANTIC

REALLY BIG

REALLY





once a knick always a knick
Panos
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10/24/2007  9:16 AM
Posted by misterearl:
Posted by Panos:
Posted by kam77:
e have Nuthugging Homers come on this board and post crap like "Marbury Turned The Corner Last Yr Let's Give Him Props" or "The NBA Hates Our Players Curry Should Have Been An All-Star" or "We Can Present The Best Package 4 Kobe" or "Zach Randolph=Willis Reed".

who and when? give it up. there are no such people here. and if they are they are not representative of the average hopeful knick fan.

Not for nothing, but those quotes have all been said on this board. Maybe just with the exception of the "=" in the Reed one.


[Edited by - panos on 24-10-2007 07:22 AM]

Panos - you simply need to slow down and spend more time with reading comprehension.

The Willis Reed thread was about a comparison of ELEMENTS of the two games.

That is a MAJOR difference from making a judgement that they were/are EQUALS

MAJOR

HUGE

BIG

GIGANTIC

REALLY BIG

REALLY




Apparently it's you who needs to slow down. I said EXCEPT that one!
TrueBlue
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10/24/2007  10:37 AM
Posted by kam77:
e have Nuthugging Homers come on this board and post crap like "Marbury Turned The Corner Last Yr Let's Give Him Props" or "The NBA Hates Our Players Curry Should Have Been An All-Star" or "We Can Present The Best Package 4 Kobe" or "Zach Randolph=Willis Reed".

who and when? give it up. there are no such people here. and if they are they are not representative of the average hopeful knick fan.

If you aren't a troll then those topics would be very familiar to you. I embellished just a tad on the last one but a Topic of comparison was made between the two players.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
toodarkmark
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10/24/2007  10:42 AM
If this was a team with a GM with direction, a coach who wasnt a complete joke, and a principal owner who didnt seem intent on making the Knicks the laughing stock of the NBA, then maybe I would see their "progress" in a different light. If they win 41 games, do you really, in your heart of hearts, believe they are headed for a playoff series win? Sure they have alot to prove, and will play with some passion. But what happens when they get some success. Will Curry suddenly start defending? Will Stephon stop being erratic and coachable.

Ive watched the NBA long enough that teams that have alot of poorly motivated players, poor defensive players, and too many players playing the same position, are just setting themselves up for failure. Im not discoundting my fandom for Nate Robinson, David Lee, Balkman. But this team isnt about talent or development. Its about win some now to save Isiah's job, to make fans look away from the mess Dolan has created of the team. Its not about winning playoffs, its about saving everybodys ass and trying to prove to the world that the Knicks arent the pathetic mess everyone thinks they are.

To me thats no environment to hope for some "progress" and 41 wins.
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by toodarkmark:
Dont call us haters because we see reality and present it.

Frankly you have far too lofty a view of yourself if you think your views are "reality." They are opinions, and many of the opinions presented by self described "haters" (I say self-described because I have yet to refer to anyone as a hater who hasn't already proudly hoisted that term on themselves) are flawed. So don't call us "lovers" if we point those flaws out.

Is it reality to say the Knicks only showed progress last season because of an easier schedule when the records of the teams they played during that period averaged out to the Eastern Conference average, when over half of those teams ended up making the playoffs, or when that period actually included one of the toughest stretches of the season, a stretch that had the Knicks win one game above .500?

Your version of "reality" says a 41 win record and a playoff berth means "nothing". I think the "reality" is that our team would be in the playoffs for the first time in three years, and a .500 record would constitute real progress from the previous season.

Or is it that in your "reality" a 41 win record is the team's ceiling? You are free to have that opinion, but when you present that opinion as "reality" I think I'm free to call you a pretentious blowhard. Is that better than "hater?"

I don't care what people think. People are stupid. - Charles Barkley
TrueBlue
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10/24/2007  10:43 AM
Posted by Papabear:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by Papabear:

Papabear Says

I will never believe that TrueBlue is a Knicks fan. Read the players he picked as his favorites. They would win nothing.
TrueBlue you are like a dark cloud on a sunny day. The anger and hate you have for these players is a concern. Really I don't think that you are a true Knicks fan. It's OK to be upset when your team looses or your coach picked wrong players, but you cross the line.

Papabear

Perfect example of what I'm talking about. This is really RIDICULOUS and SAD. Are you saying the players I like are the same ones other teams have tried to trade for and were rejected on their passes? PDX, IND, and New Jersey wanted David Lee.... New Jersey and it's believed Sacramento wanted/wants Balkman. We've told them no so far. And if the players I like would never win anything can you explain the players you like.... what have they won not only as a Knick but throughout their whole playing career?

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 10-23-2007 11:25 PM]

Papabear Says

As I can remember the last time we won something was in 1973 and you cant blame Zeke because he wasn't in the NBA he was still a little kid. Don't blame Marbs because he wasn't even born yet. So really there is no one to name. I like Lee and Balkman but they win nothing without the rest of the team.
Are you telling me that Marbs is not playing good basketball? Curry will get back on track.

Papabear



[Edited by - Papabear on 10-24-2007 02:02 AM]



What is the combined winning % of the teams Marbury, Crawford, and Curry played on before becoming a Knick and as a Knick? I have absolutely no idea why you're going back to 1973. Since you did and you're using Championship as the pinnacle standard for Knick players,(which I have no problem with) are you implying Pat, Bernard, Marc Jackson, Starks, LJ, Oakley, Sprewell etc etc were losers because they never won it all?

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 10-24-2007 10:23 AM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
toodarkmark
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10/24/2007  10:48 AM
Agreed on both Isles and Crushalot. The reality is, you cant look away from what management and coaching does with a team. If all that Isiah and Dolan and Stephon have done, if all the wasted trades, cuts, and poorly planned cluster****s, dont make you sickened to your stomach, than youre just not watching.

To blindly just accept all this. If Isiah and Dolan ran any other team, you would sit there and make jokes about how pathetic that organization is. But because its the Knicks, people turn a blind eye and drink kool aid, or whatever the term you want to use. And then when other fans show the disgust with the management that is DESERVED, you insult the fan, rather than accept what they say.

Everyone here is a Knicks fan or they wouldnt waste time on the the Forum. Just some see that the management is a joke, and others just want them to win 3, 4 more games and all is forgiven. Just doesnt make much sense to me.
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by CrushAlot:

If hating Isiah and his life long tenure with the team despite being incompetent, immoral, unsuccessful, unprofessional, arrogant, and ineffective qualifies me as a hater sign me up. The reality is that some smaller market teams would have probably folded under his mismanagement. His tremendous character flaws are just an added bonus that the Dolans also support financially and philosophically.

That just makes you grounded in reality.

If you don't think that Isiah has been incompetent, immoral, unsuccessful, unprofessional, arrogant, and ineffective, it makes you delusional.

I don't care what people think. People are stupid. - Charles Barkley
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C'mon now. Where are all the threads about how we suck?
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