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TrueBlue
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10/16/2007  4:00 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

This is a prime example to why people get labled as lovers and haters. For those of you who wonder why you get labled as such.

One side says that the knicks only started playing at a 500. clip before injuries only because the schedule was easy. And we folded not becuase of injuries but because the schedule got tougher. Completely ignoring injuries. Then vise versa the other side says it wasn't because of scheduling it was because of injuries. Completly putting off the thought that the scheduling had any impact.

Why does it allways have to be black or white, when in the reality its probably gray. Like I stated in a earlier post. Being a lover or hater only makes you a flawed poster.

Maybe having an easier schedule during that time did have part to do with the knicks playing 500. ball maybe not. But don't discount every other reasoning. The year before even with easier scheduling we would have still failed. Just like you can't only blame injuries for the downfall since Isiah did pay prime money and picks for Marbury, Jefferies & Curry who all were playing. So I could understand why many wouldn't want to give Isiah a pass.

Easy schedule or not the Knicks did what they were supposed to do for a good period of time. Which is an improvement over the past yrs. Then folded down the stretch which can't be excused due to injuries since with the price we paid for Marbury & Curry they should have been able to carry us. Though the blame shouldn't go to Marbury & Curry for not being able to do it. But to Isiah Thomas for giving up what he gave up to for the 2 palyers who couldn't carry a team past injuries.

Its really not that hard to be objective, some of you guys should give it a try. At the end of the day, if this teamd deosn't play well enough to be a playoff team and actually put on a show in the playoffs then its time to move on from Isiah Thomas.


Since Rembee doesn't have the balls to answer my very simple question I'll pose it to you.


Why were we 3-13 in our Division while Toronto was 11-5, New Jersey was 10-6, Philly 9-7, and Boston 7-9 all suffering equal if not greater injuries to their squads?
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
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RemBee76
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10/16/2007  4:09 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:
One side says that the knicks only started playing at a 500. clip before injuries only because the schedule was easy. And we folded not becuase of injuries but because the schedule got tougher. Completely ignoring injuries. Then vise versa the other side says it wasn't because of scheduling it was because of injuries. Completly putting off the thought that the scheduling had any impact.

I acknowledged that the start of January was an easy stretch of games, only to have my entire analysis misrepresented.

Yes, I dismiss the fact that the schedule had a significant impact because the Knicks played just as well, if not better, through a tougher February. You also look at the schedule and there was little to no correlation between wins/losses and the record of the opponent. The Knicks more often lost to teams they shouldn’t have while beating teams ranked higher.

Overall, I happen to think that when a team starts out two months playing 7 below .500 then follows that with two months of .500 ball they have improved. That would seem obvious, and one would only be overanalyzing the schedule in a misguided attempt to disprove the obvious.

As to the Black and White comment, that’s par for the course on any board where people give opinions, where there are points and counter-points. I wouldn’t expect anyone to try and sum up the entire picture in one post. I’ve stated here too many times to count that if the team doesn’t make the playoffs this year Isiah should be gone. I’ve stated numerous times that I don’t like the Randolph trade, that Isiah isn’t a good enough coach for a championship level team, that Curry needs to improve his conditioning, his defense, and his passing out of the post.

Yet somehow I make an attempt to disprove a clearly mistaken notion and I’m labeled a “lover” by a poster claiming impartiality.

Go figure.
Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
islesfan
Posts: 9999
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Member: #712
10/16/2007  4:12 PM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by newyorknewyork:
One side says that the knicks only started playing at a 500. clip before injuries only because the schedule was easy. And we folded not becuase of injuries but because the schedule got tougher. Completely ignoring injuries. Then vise versa the other side says it wasn't because of scheduling it was because of injuries. Completly putting off the thought that the scheduling had any impact.

I acknowledged that the start of January was an easy stretch of games, only to have my entire analysis misrepresented.

Yes, I dismiss the fact that the schedule had a significant impact because the Knicks played just as well, if not better, through a tougher February. You also look at the schedule and there was little to no correlation between wins/losses and the record of the opponent. The Knicks more often lost to teams they shouldn’t have while beating teams ranked higher.

Overall, I happen to think that when a team starts out two months playing 7 below .500 then follows that with two months of .500 ball they have improved. That would seem obvious, and one would only be overanalyzing the schedule in a misguided attempt to disprove the obvious.

As to the Black and White comment, that’s par for the course on any board where people give opinions, where there are points and counter-points. I wouldn’t expect anyone to try and sum up the entire picture in one post. I’ve stated here too many times to count that if the team doesn’t make the playoffs this year Isiah should be gone. I’ve stated numerous times that I don’t like the Randolph trade, that Isiah isn’t a good enough coach for a championship level team, that Curry needs to improve his conditioning, his defense, and his passing out of the post.

Yet somehow I make an attempt to disprove a clearly mistaken notion and I’m labeled a “lover” by a poster claiming impartiality.

Go figure.

You play the victim almost as well as Isiah.

Kudos
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
efw
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10/16/2007  4:14 PM
Originally posted by RemBee76:
Yet somehow I make an attempt to disprove a clearly mistaken notion and I’m labeled a “lover” by a poster claiming impartiality.

Go figure.

He also invoked testicular existentialism on your behalf.


[Edited by - efw on 10-16-2007 4:16 PM]
RemBee76
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10/16/2007  4:20 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:
Easy schedule or not the Knicks did what they were supposed to do for a good period of time. Which is an improvement over the past yrs. Then folded down the stretch which can't be excused due to injuries since with the price we paid for Marbury & Curry they should have been able to carry us. Though the blame shouldn't go to Marbury & Curry for not being able to do it. But to Isiah Thomas for giving up what he gave up to for the 2 palyers who couldn't carry a team past injuries.

Look at the Nets. They were expected to be one of the best teams in the East, likely would have finished with 50 wins had they stayed healthy. But they played a season without their 4th best player, and 1/3rd of the season without their 3rd best player, and finished with 41 wins and barely squeeked in to the playoffs. Kidd and Carter played the entire season, though, so is it fair to say that because the team didn't meet expectations their top two guys couldn't carry the team past injuries?

I don't think so.




Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
RemBee76
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10/16/2007  4:22 PM
Posted by efw:
He also invoked testicular existentialism on your behalf.

No, efw, that was Trueblue, whose next original, intelligent and worthwhile posting will be his first.

Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
islesfan
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10/16/2007  4:25 PM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by newyorknewyork:
Easy schedule or not the Knicks did what they were supposed to do for a good period of time. Which is an improvement over the past yrs. Then folded down the stretch which can't be excused due to injuries since with the price we paid for Marbury & Curry they should have been able to carry us. Though the blame shouldn't go to Marbury & Curry for not being able to do it. But to Isiah Thomas for giving up what he gave up to for the 2 palyers who couldn't carry a team past injuries.

Look at the Nets. They were expected to be one of the best teams in the East, likely would have finished with 50 wins had they stayed healthy. But they played a season without their 4th best player, and 1/3rd of the season without their 3rd best player, and finished with 41 wins and barely squeeked in to the playoffs. Kidd and Carter played the entire season, though, so is it fair to say that because the team didn't meet expectations their top two guys couldn't carry the team past injuries?

I don't think so.

The Nets 2 best players carried their team past injuries to the Eastern Conference Semis and lost in 6 games to the team that made it to the Finals.

Bad example.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TrueBlue
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10/16/2007  4:28 PM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by efw:
He also invoked testicular existentialism on your behalf.

No, efw, that was Trueblue, whose next original, intelligent and worthwhile posting will be his first.


Stop dodging the question, I asked politely 2 times you can still answer. I was waiting to be enlightened so I can get to your level of posting. If you don't answer then there's an obvious conclusion to the matter.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
RemBee76
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10/16/2007  4:32 PM
Posted by islesfan:



The Nets 2 best players carried their team past injuries to the Eastern Conference Semis and lost in 6 games to the team that made it to the Finals.

Bad example.

Richard Jefferson was playing by then, and averaged 20 ppg in the playoffs.


Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
islesfan
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10/16/2007  4:40 PM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by islesfan:



The Nets 2 best players carried their team past injuries to the Eastern Conference Semis and lost in 6 games to the team that made it to the Finals.

Bad example.

Richard Jefferson was playing by then, and averaged 20 ppg in the playoffs.

So I guess missing Jefferson for 1/3 of the season meant a lot more than you're making it out to seem.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
BasketballJones
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10/16/2007  4:44 PM
Once elected, the congressman will focus on what unites us, not on what divides us.
https:// It's not so hard.
BlueSeats
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10/16/2007  6:18 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:


Like I stated in a earlier post. Being a lover or hater only makes you a flawed poster.

Just as a point of reference, please name the unflawed posters here.
RemBee76
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10/16/2007  6:49 PM
Posted by islesfan:
So I guess missing Jefferson for 1/3 of the season meant a lot more than you're making it out to seem.


I'm not sure I understand your point here. I'm not saying losing Jefferson was unimportant to the Nets, not at all. Just the opposite, I'm saying losing him along with Kristic hurt their season, just as losing your 3rd and 4th guy would hurt any team.

Knicks, of course, are no different.

By the way, I did find a flaw in my earlier analysis. I said the 641-710 opponent record was lopsided, but in fact, it isn't. Its about a .475 winning percentage which translates to 39 wins. That also happens to be the average for teams in the Eastern Conference.
Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
nixluva
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10/16/2007  7:40 PM
All I can say is who the hell cares about last year anymore? This is a new season and we have some new players and an overall better team. This team had shown steady progress last year and with the improvements we've made I think it's fair to believe this team will be better and even more bruising than we already could be at times. Now we'll likely be more physical than ever.
Bobby
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10/16/2007  8:10 PM
Posted by Bernard30:

That's funny. I've been here since 05. I just lay low because of all the negativity around here.

wonder how many other ultimateknicks members still laying low because of all the negativity around here. i call this negative posting harassment

"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
BasketballJones
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10/16/2007  8:31 PM
Posted by Bobby:
Posted by Bernard30:

That's funny. I've been here since 05. I just lay low because of all the negativity around here.

wonder how many other ultimateknicks members still laying low because of all the negativity around here. i call this negative posting harassment

Thousands I'm sure.

https:// It's not so hard.
Papabear
Posts: 24389
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Joined: 3/31/2007
Member: #1414

10/16/2007  10:29 PM
Posted by arkrud:

This team will never win anything until this group of players will became THE TEAM.
When Eddy, Zack, Steph, Craf, and others will come up and play together like a unit with determination to score and defend at each possession, go for every lose ball, and after they lost, point to themselves as a reason I will be a lover regardless of the names. And this can be measured each game very easy.
Individual talent is great in tennis or boxing. In basketball it is nothing more that fascinating side show. Nice to watch but it is not why I am a Knicks fan.


[Edited by - arkrud on 10-16-2007 09:39 AM]

Papabear Says

Arkrud; Individual talent?? you say?? Well how come everyone is trying to give up thier first born to get Kobe.
This team will play together and I know that all the haters will not be rooting for the Knicks but thats ok. For now on I'll just call the haters THE GUYS FROM THE DARK SIDE!!
Peace and love
Papabear

Papabear
Papabear
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10/16/2007  10:48 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by newyorknewyork:

This is a prime example to why people get labled as lovers and haters. For those of you who wonder why you get labled as such.

One side says that the knicks only started playing at a 500. clip before injuries only because the schedule was easy. And we folded not becuase of injuries but because the schedule got tougher. Completely ignoring injuries. Then vise versa the other side says it wasn't because of scheduling it was because of injuries. Completly putting off the thought that the scheduling had any impact.

Why does it allways have to be black or white, when in the reality its probably gray. Like I stated in a earlier post. Being a lover or hater only makes you a flawed poster.

Maybe having an easier schedule during that time did have part to do with the knicks playing 500. ball maybe not. But don't discount every other reasoning. The year before even with easier scheduling we would have still failed. Just like you can't only blame injuries for the downfall since Isiah did pay prime money and picks for Marbury, Jefferies & Curry who all were playing. So I could understand why many wouldn't want to give Isiah a pass.

Easy schedule or not the Knicks did what they were supposed to do for a good period of time. Which is an improvement over the past yrs. Then folded down the stretch which can't be excused due to injuries since with the price we paid for Marbury & Curry they should have been able to carry us. Though the blame shouldn't go to Marbury & Curry for not being able to do it. But to Isiah Thomas for giving up what he gave up to for the 2 palyers who couldn't carry a team past injuries.

Its really not that hard to be objective, some of you guys should give it a try. At the end of the day, if this teamd deosn't play well enough to be a playoff team and actually put on a show in the playoffs then its time to move on from Isiah Thomas.


Since Rembee doesn't have the balls to answer my very simple question I'll pose it to you.


Why were we 3-13 in our Division while Toronto was 11-5, New Jersey was 10-6, Philly 9-7, and Boston 7-9 all suffering equal if not greater injuries to their squads?

Papabear Says

So what if they were 3-13 But I betcha one thing!! It won't happen this season. They will be monsters and if someone gets hurt we will have someone to plug in the spot. I can't wait till the season begins. We can show the guys from the dark side that we have lite at the end of the tunnel.

Papabear


Papabear
Papabear
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10/16/2007  10:51 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by newyorknewyork:
Easy schedule or not the Knicks did what they were supposed to do for a good period of time. Which is an improvement over the past yrs. Then folded down the stretch which can't be excused due to injuries since with the price we paid for Marbury & Curry they should have been able to carry us. Though the blame shouldn't go to Marbury & Curry for not being able to do it. But to Isiah Thomas for giving up what he gave up to for the 2 palyers who couldn't carry a team past injuries.

Look at the Nets. They were expected to be one of the best teams in the East, likely would have finished with 50 wins had they stayed healthy. But they played a season without their 4th best player, and 1/3rd of the season without their 3rd best player, and finished with 41 wins and barely squeeked in to the playoffs. Kidd and Carter played the entire season, though, so is it fair to say that because the team didn't meet expectations their top two guys couldn't carry the team past injuries?

I don't think so.

The Nets 2 best players carried their team past injuries to the Eastern Conference Semis and lost in 6 games to the team that made it to the Finals.

Bad example.

Papabear Says

So why don't you become a Nets fan!!

Papabear

Papabear
newyorknewyork
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10/16/2007  11:49 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by newyorknewyork:

This is a prime example to why people get labled as lovers and haters. For those of you who wonder why you get labled as such.

One side says that the knicks only started playing at a 500. clip before injuries only because the schedule was easy. And we folded not becuase of injuries but because the schedule got tougher. Completely ignoring injuries. Then vise versa the other side says it wasn't because of scheduling it was because of injuries. Completly putting off the thought that the scheduling had any impact.

Why does it allways have to be black or white, when in the reality its probably gray. Like I stated in a earlier post. Being a lover or hater only makes you a flawed poster.

Maybe having an easier schedule during that time did have part to do with the knicks playing 500. ball maybe not. But don't discount every other reasoning. The year before even with easier scheduling we would have still failed. Just like you can't only blame injuries for the downfall since Isiah did pay prime money and picks for Marbury, Jefferies & Curry who all were playing. So I could understand why many wouldn't want to give Isiah a pass.

Easy schedule or not the Knicks did what they were supposed to do for a good period of time. Which is an improvement over the past yrs. Then folded down the stretch which can't be excused due to injuries since with the price we paid for Marbury & Curry they should have been able to carry us. Though the blame shouldn't go to Marbury & Curry for not being able to do it. But to Isiah Thomas for giving up what he gave up to for the 2 palyers who couldn't carry a team past injuries.

Its really not that hard to be objective, some of you guys should give it a try. At the end of the day, if this teamd deosn't play well enough to be a playoff team and actually put on a show in the playoffs then its time to move on from Isiah Thomas.


Since Rembee doesn't have the balls to answer my very simple question I'll pose it to you.


Why were we 3-13 in our Division while Toronto was 11-5, New Jersey was 10-6, Philly 9-7, and Boston 7-9 all suffering equal if not greater injuries to their squads?

To anwser your question I have no Idea why the Knicks were 3-13 vs teams in our divison. The fact that we were 3-13 probably helps the fact that other teams had the amount of wins they did. We were 1-3 vs Toronto, 0-4 vs the Nets, 1-3 vs Philly, 1-3 vs Bos. If like the Knicks were 13-3 vs these teams and reversed the win-loss. Toronto would be 8-8, Nets 7-9, Philly 6-10, Boston 4-12 vs teams in there division. Subtract all games vs Knicks, Toronto would have bee 9-4, Nets 6-6, Philly 6-6, Boston 4-8.

Im glad you brought this up. Because it shows how much more we need to focus on beating the teams in our division. If we would have taken care of business and swept Boston, beat Philly 3-1, Split with the Nets 2-2, and lost to Toronto 1-3 that would have been 10wins. That would have given us 40 wins on the season. Might even snuck into the playoffs since we were would have been tied with Orlando which we slip the season with.

You also can't ignore that we played Toronto, Philly & NJ 3 games each down the stretch without Crawford, Richardson or Lee. It shouldn't be used as an excuse since like I stated earlier Marbury & Curry were there. But it still not something you just ignore, its still is a big hit.
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Our bigs are gonna bruise some people...

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