Posted by islesfan:
That's what makes this "win now mandate", that Isiah is supposedly forced to work under, completely bogus. Isiah has been allowed to do whatever he wanted without fear of losing his job. The large extension that he received and the glowing words from Dolan at the time, for maxing out as the 8th best team in the conference for a couple of days, proves that. Any change in Isiah's alleged plan to build with youth, should be looked at primarily as an attempt at self preservation, since his job security appears to be in question for the first time.

Lets repeat that for a sec, his job security appears to be in question for the first time? So what was all that "show progress or else" stuff last year? Bogus too, I suppose?

Dolan is nothing like Steinbrenner. The Yankees go into each and every season planning to win a championship. Dolan would be perfectly happy if his team just made the playoffs each year. Yes, Isiah has survived despite the losing, but look at how that has happened. His first year the Marbury trade got the Knicks into the playoffs when they would have been deep lottery otherwise. Next year the team loses after starting the season 13-10, so Dolan pushes to install the Big Name Larry Brown as coach, promising immediate improvement. After that disastrous season, its show progress or else, and Dolan jumps on the contract extension when it looks like his team might squeak into the post-season.

At every turn Dolan felt the need to make a move so that each and every year he could promise that things would be better. Not once has he ever been satisfied with staying put and letting things develop. Damn, why do you think we brought in Zach Randolph this year?

And anyway, we are looking at the Yankees as an example of how to proceed? The team with the highest payroll in baseball that just got unceremoniously bounced from the first round? Yes, Cashman did get lucky that his young guys came through (for a little while) but he also had oodles of veteran support.

I’m not trying to give Isiah a pass, he has made plenty of missteps. But your trying to spin Isiah “doing” his job as “just trying to keep” his job is simply absurd.

Posted by RemBee76:

Posted by islesfan:
That's what makes this "win now mandate", that Isiah is supposedly forced to work under, completely bogus. Isiah has been allowed to do whatever he wanted without fear of losing his job. The large extension that he received and the glowing words from Dolan at the time, for maxing out as the 8th best team in the conference for a couple of days, proves that. Any change in Isiah's alleged plan to build with youth, should be looked at primarily as an attempt at self preservation, since his job security appears to be in question for the first time.

Lets repeat that for a sec, his job security appears to be in question for the first time? So what was all that "show progress or else" stuff last year? Bogus too, I suppose?

Dolan is nothing like Steinbrenner. The Yankees go into each and every season planning to win a championship. Dolan would be perfectly happy if his team just made the playoffs each year. Yes, Isiah has survived despite the losing, but look at how that has happened. His first year the Marbury trade got the Knicks into the playoffs when they would have been deep lottery otherwise. Next year the team loses after starting the season 13-10, so Dolan pushes to install the Big Name Larry Brown as coach, promising immediate improvement. After that disastrous season, its show progress or else, and Dolan jumps on the contract extension when it looks like his team might squeak into the post-season.

At every turn Dolan felt the need to make a move so that each and every year he could promise that things would be better. Not once has he ever been satisfied with staying put and letting things develop. Damn, why do you think we brought in Zach Randolph this year?

And anyway, we are looking at the Yankees as an example of how to proceed? The team with the highest payroll in baseball that just got unceremoniously bounced from the first round? Yes, Cashman did get lucky that his young guys came through (for a little while) but he also had oodles of veteran support.

I’m not trying to give Isiah a pass, he has made plenty of missteps. But your trying to spin Isiah “doing” his job as “just trying to keep” his job is simply absurd.

Yeah, bogus is exactly what it was. Dolan was just looking for an opportunity to extend Isiah and say that "progress" was achieved. That's why he was so ambiguous about it. As soon as they were the 8th best team, Dolan broke out the extension. He didn't know if they would be able to hold that position and needed to do it right there and then. It couldn't have been calculated any more.

If Dolan would be happy to just make the playoffs, then where do people get this "win now mandate" stuff? You can't have it both ways.

I'm not even going to get into your whole "Isiah is a victim, none of that was his fault" BS.

You said ANY GM would make self preservation a part of his job description. I showed you an example of one who didn't. You're obviously going to dismiss it any way you can but not once did you deny that he acted with the best interest of the team and not his own. Stay on point please.

You gave Isiah a pass on everything that has happened in the past 3 1/2 years so please don't say that you're not trying to give him a pass. You're the one spinning things, not me. Releasing a draft pick with a skill that they need, in favor of keeping a bunch of useless veterans isn't "doing" his job.

Posted by islesfan:
If Dolan would be happy to just make the playoffs, then where do people get this "win now mandate" stuff? You can't have it both ways.

Win now...shorthand for sacrificing youth to acquire enough veteran players to keep the team afloat. Its the way MSG has run the Knicks for the last 20 years, but somehow this is all Isiah's fault.

And forgive me if I think Brian Cashman, with a few world championships under his belt and after negotiating more independence in his deal with the owner who basically begged him not to leave the job has a little more leeway in how he runs things than Isiah Thomas. Even still, again, with the highest payroll in the league the Yankees were still primarily leaning on their vets to get into the playoffs. It’s not like Cash did an about-face from the organization’s MO.

Simply, there is no doubt in my mind that if Isiah Thomas thought (thinks) Nichols was a player he would retain him. We are talking about a guy who has shown ten times more dedication to his youth than this organization has in total since I have been a Knick fan.

But I’m not going to be able to convince you of anything that doesn’t satisfy your bloodlust for Isiah, you are not going to be able to convince me that the man is the devil incarnate. I’m fine with that.