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Channing Frye Impressing Blazers
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EnySpree
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8/13/2007  9:52 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by misterearl:

It is a work in progress that few have patience for

i don't think that's fair when we hear so much stuff coming FROM the organization itself. it's not like fans are jumping to conclusions. we've heard many different things and ultimately, nothing has worked out.

it's a work in progress, fine, but if the organization didn't spin so much BS, do you think the fans would have more patience?

you can't just simply *ignore* what's being said by the owner and gm/coach. that's not how it works. this city is fueled by quotes. isiah can say "i'm going to lie to the media" but in ny, that means "i'm going to lie to the fans."

dolan has to hire someone from ny to run this team b/c they'll know how this city operates and how the media functions.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 08-13-2007 9:40 PM]

You know this probably why guys have such a passion to blast the knicks everyday here. You basically wrote the hater manifesto.
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djsunyc
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8/13/2007  9:52 PM
Posted by misterearl:

djsu - if the city is fueled by quotes then are you suggesting New York may be better off with a public relations quotemeister?

Isiah understands that at the end of the day, no matter how he is quoted, his one and only job is to upgrade the talent level on the roster.

Eventually, that talent, if he knows what he is looking at, will mature as a team and begin to make us proud to be fans.

Time will tell

if he understands that, then he CAN'T talk about the fans booing this team b/c at that point, he's instigating.

one thing i've learned over the past 25+ years as a ny sports fan is that don't BS the fans. no matter what you say, don't BS the fans and don't make excuses. fans will put up with ALOT of stuff, just don't BS them. and that's something he has not mastered yet. the team is younger, the team is more athletic - EXACTLY what every fan wanted here before that december day layden was fired. but why the love/hate relationship between the fans and the gm/coach? b/c when you don't produce wins, you better not fuel that fire with BS and that's all we've heard.
BasketballJones
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8/13/2007  9:55 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by misterearl:

djsu - if the city is fueled by quotes then are you suggesting New York may be better off with a public relations quotemeister?

Isiah understands that at the end of the day, no matter how he is quoted, his one and only job is to upgrade the talent level on the roster.

Eventually, that talent, if he knows what he is looking at, will mature as a team and begin to make us proud to be fans.

Time will tell

if he understands that, then he CAN'T talk about the fans booing this team b/c at that point, he's instigating.

one thing i've learned over the past 25+ years as a ny sports fan is that don't BS the fans. no matter what you say, don't BS the fans and don't make excuses. fans will put up with ALOT of stuff, just don't BS them. and that's something he has not mastered yet. the team is younger, the team is more athletic - EXACTLY what every fan wanted here before that december day layden was fired. but why the love/hate relationship between the fans and the gm/coach? b/c when you don't produce wins, you better not fuel that fire with BS and that's all we've heard.

I'm not sure I understand. Is it, or is it not okay to BS the fans?
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sebstar
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8/13/2007  9:58 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

I don't get what people are saying. We have won 33, 23 and 33 games. We have 35 guys under 28 and the place hasn't imploded. The fans haven't killed anyone. The fans haven't stormed the garden. What would change if the team won 33, 23 and 33 games with rookies instead of the likes of Francis, JJ etc. I guess I'm just missing something.

Because its exceedingly difficult for young players to develop in a NY environment and you're just going to end up at square one more than likely if you tear down (years long process) and accumulate high picks (years long process) just in the hope that the high profile players arent decimated in the NY fishbowl because they didnt put up 25/10 by their second year.
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misterearl
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8/13/2007  9:59 PM
dj- Isiah was protecting the fragile egos of his young team and came to their defense when fans booed. how much damage would be done if booing continued as a fashionable habit, even when subtle positive signs were in the works?

I don't see a problem with a coach standing up for his team and guess what...?

the guys in the locker room, the guys who matter most, probably appreciated the gesture

TEAM
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misterearl
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8/13/2007  10:03 PM
>>you can't just simply *ignore* what's being said by the owner and gm/coach

of course you can.

or you can keep it in perspective and not expect trade, or strategic, secrets at every turn

especially when the President of Basketball Operations and Head Coah happen to be the same person
once a knick always a knick
djsunyc
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8/13/2007  10:06 PM
Posted by misterearl:

>>you can't just simply *ignore* what's being said by the owner and gm/coach

of course you can.

or you can keep it in perspective and not expect trade, or strategic, secrets at every turn

especially when the President of Basketball Operations and Head Coah happen to be the same person

you can...but i'm talking about it from a ny fans point of view, when was the last time 7 mil fans didn't listen?
misterearl
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8/13/2007  10:07 PM
Zeke MUST tap-dance around media questions faster than The Nicholas Brothers and Gregory Hines combined. Why?

Because he knows the information will be spun, first and foremost, to sell papers.

He is saavy and smarmy at the same time. You want a New York guy?

Mark Jackson for Head Coach in 2008
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misterearl
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8/13/2007  10:11 PM
7 mil basketball fans?

what are those, cable subscription numbers?
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Nalod
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8/13/2007  10:32 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by misterearl:

djsu - if the city is fueled by quotes then are you suggesting New York may be better off with a public relations quotemeister?

Isiah understands that at the end of the day, no matter how he is quoted, his one and only job is to upgrade the talent level on the roster.

Eventually, that talent, if he knows what he is looking at, will mature as a team and begin to make us proud to be fans.

Time will tell

if he understands that, then he CAN'T talk about the fans booing this team b/c at that point, he's instigating.

one thing i've learned over the past 25+ years as a ny sports fan is that don't BS the fans. no matter what you say, don't BS the fans and don't make excuses. fans will put up with ALOT of stuff, just don't BS them. and that's something he has not mastered yet. the team is younger YOUTHIER, the team is more athletic - EXACTLY what every fan wanted here before that december day layden was fired. but why the love/hate relationship between the fans and the gm/coach? b/c when you don't produce wins, you better not fuel that fire with BS and that's all we've heard.

arkrud
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8/13/2007  10:35 PM
Since Zeke is in NY he is doing patching job. Right?
Any patching job sooner or later ends up with collapse
This is just a matter of time.
It was a perfect situation this spring to get read of Isiah and his band of brothers and start building the team. He did his job and it was time to go.
But another idiot decided that IT can do more than just scouting...
Well... He will pay the price. And he already started with Zack
Unfortunately fans will also pay the price. But at least they will start saving money on the Garden tickets. No good thing without bad thing.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
tkf
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8/13/2007  10:40 PM
Posted by MS:

I think the entire organization as a whole was fed up with him being soft out there. Eddy didn't really do anything special last year a lot of players put up similiar numbers....

Once your confidence is gone it's very tough to get it back and i think he was just not in good spirits. Channing didn't really look like he knew what to do, i think isiah made him believe he was eddy's decoy. And a lot of the shots he was getting were a lot tougher outside of his comfort zone

while shooting 60%? please list them for me? guys who averaged near 20ppg shooting 60% or even 55% and better. I bet the guys on that list are some damn good players....
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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8/13/2007  10:42 PM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by Bippity10:

Was Channing Frye traded because the fans gave up on him or because Isiah gave up on him?

Don't pretend to have not read the comments on Frye's game on this board. And again, look at the comments since he was traded...very few, if any, analysis of the trade factored in Frye's potential as a negative for us.

Mitch Lawrence, in a pre-draft article looking at Isiah Thomas' history already listed Frye as a bust. This was echoing much of what I heard here and elsewhere.

Was Frye traded because Isiah gave up on him? I think Isiah's idea of Frye's ceiling certainly changed after last season's performance, but I don't think Isiah saw the trade as getting Randolph for "nothing", a notion signed on to here. Whatever his faults, Randolph is a 23-10 legit starting PF. I don't think trading Frye for that is a signal that Isiah had given up on him.

excellent posting rembee, I am enjoying these post...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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8/13/2007  10:42 PM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by Bippity10:

Was Channing Frye traded because the fans gave up on him or because Isiah gave up on him?

Don't pretend to have not read the comments on Frye's game on this board. And again, look at the comments since he was traded...very few, if any, analysis of the trade factored in Frye's potential as a negative for us.

Mitch Lawrence, in a pre-draft article looking at Isiah Thomas' history already listed Frye as a bust. This was echoing much of what I heard here and elsewhere.

Was Frye traded because Isiah gave up on him? I think Isiah's idea of Frye's ceiling certainly changed after last season's performance, but I don't think Isiah saw the trade as getting Randolph for "nothing", a notion signed on to here. Whatever his faults, Randolph is a 23-10 legit starting PF. I don't think trading Frye for that is a signal that Isiah had given up on him.

excellent posting rembee, I am enjoying these post...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Bippity10
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8/13/2007  10:46 PM
Which leads me back to my original question. What does trading Channing Frye have to do with the fans inability to accept a rebuild? David Lee was drafted the same year and he is not being boo'd. Renaldo Balkman will make it through this year and won't be boo'd. Not sure if the booing has anything to do with not wanting a 2nd year player at PF or if it has to do with the fans not liking his style of play. I guess I just don't see the tie in.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 13-08-2007 10:50 PM]
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nixluva
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8/13/2007  10:49 PM
Posted by arkrud:

Since Zeke is in NY he is doing patching job. Right?
Any patching job sooner or later ends up with collapse
This is just a matter of time.
It was a perfect situation this spring to get read of Isiah and his band of brothers and start building the team. He did his job and it was time to go.
But another idiot decided that IT can do more than just scouting...
Well... He will pay the price. And he already started with Zack
Unfortunately fans will also pay the price. But at least they will start saving money on the Garden tickets. No good thing without bad thing.

Why do you do this? There are times when you start to sound a bit more rational about how this team is being developed and then you go off the deep end like this.

Yeah Isiah has been trying to fix the mess this team was when he got it and no matter which direction he would've taken it was going to take a good while to fix. 3.5 years is not very long to perform the kind of major surgery this team needed. It's taken some teams 6 or more years and they still haven't gotten to the promised land. This team is much closer today than it has been in a long time. We'll learn more about what Isiah is thinking at the end of this month. Until then we need to be a bit less ready to bash him. This can turn around really quickly and there's a good chance this is the year when it really pops off.
tkf
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8/13/2007  10:53 PM
Posted by misterearl:

bippity - you are missing the point of the discussion by a mile.

It is not so simple as being defined by wins and losses in New York

In New York, you MUST be relevant or you die. Isiah Thomas a unique job description which has been evolving during his tenure.

First and foremost, as rembee has alluded, Zeke was hired to re-generate interest in the franshise. His next job was to acquire leadership. That has been problemmatic as loyal and saavy leaders do not grow on trees. Nor do free agents or generous trading partners.

The next task was to restructure the roster and acquire younger talent for the long haul.

It is a work in progress that few have patience, or the basketball business intellect, for




[Edited by - misterearl on 08-13-2007 9:36 PM]

excellent post earl, you, sebstar and rembee have been on the money, some of the best posting I have read in a long time....

It is a delicate balance for team msg. I am willing to be patient, as you said this is a long process, I see some progress, we are younger and more talented than we have been in many years, that is a start, Isiah knows talent, that is another plus, what happens after that, we will see, ....

[Edited by - tkf on 13-08-2007 10:59 PM]
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
babyKnicks
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8/13/2007  10:58 PM
I can't wait for the "francis impresses" trueblue post.

trueblue indeed.
Let's go Knicks. That's amare
holfresh
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8/13/2007  11:24 PM

I must say this thread has been a joy to read..Who needs a summer layoff earl?..These posters are in midseason form!!!
misterearl
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8/13/2007  11:28 PM
tkf - I enjoy reading your work as well.

Show me a coach or GM who bends with the wind to suit the prevalent opinion of the moment, and I'll show you a dude who will last about 48 hours in New York City.

Isiah knows the media operates not as allies but also as adversaries. Their mission is to create the headlines that sell the newspapers. His mission is to create an environment where his players can focus, while at the same time nurturing, teaching and protecting his players from distractions and dissension. Notice the conflict?

It is naive for people who desire that Zeke lay out some franchise blueprint for public scrutiny via the wolfpack of writers whose job it is to translate quotes in the context of their agenda of sensationalism. Journalism is dead.

The beat writers want stories to make deadlines as fast as possible. Ergo, there is little analysis beyond the standard repetitive fare. Frye is a bust? Okayfine. Good Riddance.

Then again, Channing Frye could develop as quickly in Portland as Travor Ariza in Orlando, Matt Carroll in Charlotte or Matt Barnes in Golden State. Whether Frye would have blossomed in New York, we will never know.

It ain't been a new school kinda party until Isiah gradually convinced Dolan he knew how to evaluate talent and (something Larry Brown didn't understand) knew how to gain the trust of borderline generation Xers like David Lee, Mardy Collins, Renaldo, Randolph Morris, Demetris and the next Mayor - Wilson Chandler.

Isiah may not hold all the answers but the more I watched the young dudes go about their business, without any clowning or celebration, in Las Vegas, the more I liked them.

How much longer are we willing to (cough) "suffer" and wait for them to become a team?


once a knick always a knick
Channing Frye Impressing Blazers

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