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Would you forgive Allan...
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Bippity10
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8/13/2007  9:37 PM
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by Bippity10:

Okay, let's look at this scenario Let's say management decided that they could not lose Malik Rose. So before this season starts they offer him a 6 year 100 million dollar contract? Malik signs the contract.

Who would you jump all over for the contract to Malik. Would you boo Malik and hate him, or would you marvel at how incredibly stupid management is for offering this contract to Malik? I personally think the Allan Houston contract was equally stupid and do not blame Allan in the least bit for this stupidity

So now were comparing Houston to a cat that has pine needles sticking out of his ass from sitting on the bench so long.

Again I'm looking towards the future, and Layden overpaying him this time is not in the equation --- this is all on Houston. Why are you avoiding that point duke. Enough of the past.

I don't get what you are saying.

I'm saying that its absurd to compare Malik Rose to Houston. Its an exaggerated comparison --- Rose receiving a contract of that magnitude is unfathomable.

My next point was that Houston is angling to play for another team, rather than play for the Knicks. To that he has complete control, and it would be a slap in the face to Knick fans and the organization. I hate to say "organization" because quite frankly I'm the last person to ever feel bad for a soulless, corporate entity, but it would suck for him to have taken all that money while contributing so little.

Its puzzling to me considering that Houston is a man of such supposed high moral standards.

It was an exaggeration to show a point. Noone would expect Malik to lead the Knicks to a title so giving him a contract of this magnitude would be asinine. He isn't worth the money so we would tear down management's door to get at them if this happened. We wouldn't show our wrath to Malik, we would show it to management for thinking that an undersized non skilled PF was worth the money. Well to me, the Allan Houston contract was no different. He was not leading us to a title so giving him a contract of this magnitude was asinine. So I'm not going to show my wrath towards Allan, but I will show it to management for thinking that a one dimensional jump shooting SG was worth the money.

See many don't think that Allan Houston's contract was unfathomable because in their hearts they thought, maybe just maybe Allan could lead us. So they blame him for not living up to this standard instead of blaming management for this unfathomable contract.

Earlier you were saying that I needed to look to the future and yet you are pining about Allan Houston coming back to the Knicks. It's about the future man, not the past. Considering we have 18 people on our roster I'm not to sure that any free-agent is going to make us there choice destination. But who cares were he goes? What is he going to do for us at this point?
I just hope that people will like me
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oohah
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8/13/2007  9:42 PM
You his P.R rep or something, homie? Why so much passion for Houston. How is Houston more special than any other NBA player who has to deal with pain. And like I said, he seems to be feeling great, all of a sudden.

Knicks wanted him to retire, because he kept whining about his knees and he obviously wasnt trying to play.


I'll be honest and lay all my cards on the table when it comes to Houston. I have no respect for him. Here is a cat that put his religion on his sleeve yet, to me committed a deadly sin --- Gluttony. He in no, way, shape, or form earned his paycheck the last two years. He should have given away a considerable chunk of that money to the less fortunate. Others could have used that money a hell of a lot.

I see other players, Marbury especially, take so much abuse from the fans and the media --- perhaps its deservedly so, but I know a fake and a fraud when I see one. At least Marbury tried to make somewhat of a difference through philanthropic efforts, but to some he'll always wear the black hat, while Houston will always find himself exalted by others for some reason.

I dont give a damn about Houston's knees, others have dealt with much, much worse. I find it self-serving at the very best that he is now ready to play.

Sebstar, I would like to say for the most part I enjoy reading your posts. You are generally insightful and fair.

However, I think you are way off-base on this Houston issue. Outside of what you think of him personally, his knee injuries have been neither small nor easy to deal with, nor has he stolen money from anyone or dishonored his commitment to the fans of the Knicks.

I can speak of this firsthand, because I am a relatively young man who has gone through the exact same injuries that Houston has. As of this writing, I have had 5 cartilage knee surgeries, 4 on my left knee including a microfracture, 2 meniscectomies, and finally a cartilage transplant 2 years ago. I will have another surgery soon to check that knee out and do any repairs that might be necessary.

Cartilage injuries have been the leading cause of knee injury retirements across high-level sports for a long time. After my third surgery, my doctor reported to me that my knee resembled that of a 65 year old former athlete. Imagine what Houston's looked like!

The pain associated with a degenerative cartilage condition is immense and it only gets worse with time and use, especially the use of pro basketball. Houston played through that pain for years before he let it derail his career, then he tried mightily to come back from it.

Houston has not been stealing fron the fans for the last 2 years of his retirement. He did not retire because he wanted to. He retired because he would only be able to play 25% of the time and at a diminished capacity. By retiring, which I am sure he did at the behest of James Dolan, he allowed Dolan to save between 25 and 30 million dollars because insurance pays the bulk of Houston's contract while retired, Dolan pays it if he is active.

The reason Houston states his knees feel great now is that he hasn't been playing basketball for the last 2 years. I am sure they won't feel so good once he has to put them through the rigors of the NBA season. He won't be able to play big minutes, and he very likely won't be nearly as good as he was.

Finally, in the articles I have read, the feeling has been that he would give the Knicks first shot at signing him. If he shows up at the Garden in a different uniform, it will be because the Knicks no longer want him (I don't think they should sign him.).

If the Knicks don't want him, why should he just decide not to play with anyone? Why would we begrudge him trying to finish out his career on his terms with a team that wants him? I think the answer is we should not.

Good luck Allan Houston.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Allanfan20
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8/13/2007  9:46 PM
^Where the hell you been?
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
djsunyc
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8/13/2007  9:48 PM
i don't think you understand how it works here oohah, you can go ahead and rip into h20 b/c of his contract and b/c of his injury where he retired b/c of medical reasons (must've been an nba quack that ok'd that silly retirement). but if you rip eddy for showing up out of shape practically every nba season he's played, you're an imbecile and a hater. that's how we roll here now.
Bippity10
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8/13/2007  9:48 PM
Andrew/Martin, somehow Oohaah got past the firewall. Please ban him the moment he says something positive. Thank you.

All hell, what am I telling you guys what to do, you already know.
I just hope that people will like me
codeunknown
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8/13/2007  9:49 PM
Posted by oohah:
You his P.R rep or something, homie? Why so much passion for Houston. How is Houston more special than any other NBA player who has to deal with pain. And like I said, he seems to be feeling great, all of a sudden.

Knicks wanted him to retire, because he kept whining about his knees and he obviously wasnt trying to play.


I'll be honest and lay all my cards on the table when it comes to Houston. I have no respect for him. Here is a cat that put his religion on his sleeve yet, to me committed a deadly sin --- Gluttony. He in no, way, shape, or form earned his paycheck the last two years. He should have given away a considerable chunk of that money to the less fortunate. Others could have used that money a hell of a lot.

I see other players, Marbury especially, take so much abuse from the fans and the media --- perhaps its deservedly so, but I know a fake and a fraud when I see one. At least Marbury tried to make somewhat of a difference through philanthropic efforts, but to some he'll always wear the black hat, while Houston will always find himself exalted by others for some reason.

I dont give a damn about Houston's knees, others have dealt with much, much worse. I find it self-serving at the very best that he is now ready to play.

Sebstar, I would like to say for the most part I enjoy reading your posts. You are generally insightful and fair.

However, I think you are way off-base on this Houston issue. Outside of what you think of him personally, his knee injuries have been neither small nor easy to deal with, nor has he stolen money from anyone or dishonored his commitment to the fans of the Knicks.

I can speak of this firsthand, because I am a relatively young man who has gone through the exact same injuries that Houston has. As of this writing, I have had 5 cartilage knee surgeries, 4 on my left knee including a microfracture, 2 meniscectomies, and finally a cartilage transplant 2 years ago. I will have another surgery soon to check that knee out and do any repairs that might be necessary.

Cartilage injuries have been the leading cause of knee injury retirements across high-level sports for a long time. After my third surgery, my doctor reported to me that my knee resembled that of a 65 year old former athlete. Imagine what Houston's looked like!

The pain associated with a degenerative cartilage condition is immense and it only gets worse with time and use, especially the use of pro basketball. Houston played through that pain for years before he let it derail his career, then he tried mightily to come back from it.

Houston has not been stealing fron the fans for the last 2 years of his retirement. He did not retire because he wanted to. He retired because he would only be able to play 25% of the time and at a diminished capacity. By retiring, which I am sure he did at the behest of James Dolan, he allowed Dolan to save between 25 and 30 million dollars because insurance pays the bulk of Houston's contract while retired, Dolan pays it if he is active.

The reason Houston states his knees feel great now is that he hasn't been playing basketball for the last 2 years. I am sure they won't feel so good once he has to put them through the rigors of the NBA season. He won't be able to play big minutes, and he very likely won't be nearly as good as he was.

Finally, in the articles I have read, the feeling has been that he would give the Knicks first shot at signing him. If he shows up at the Garden in a different uniform, it will be because the Knicks no longer want him (I don't think they should sign him.).

If the Knicks don't want him, why should he just decide not to play with anyone? Why would we begrudge him trying to finish out his career on his terms with a team that wants him? I think the answer is we should not.

Good luck Allan Houston.

oohah

Coming back in style, Oohah. Nicely said.

Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
sebstar
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8/13/2007  10:15 PM
Posted by oohah:
You his P.R rep or something, homie? Why so much passion for Houston. How is Houston more special than any other NBA player who has to deal with pain. And like I said, he seems to be feeling great, all of a sudden.

Knicks wanted him to retire, because he kept whining about his knees and he obviously wasnt trying to play.


I'll be honest and lay all my cards on the table when it comes to Houston. I have no respect for him. Here is a cat that put his religion on his sleeve yet, to me committed a deadly sin --- Gluttony. He in no, way, shape, or form earned his paycheck the last two years. He should have given away a considerable chunk of that money to the less fortunate. Others could have used that money a hell of a lot.

I see other players, Marbury especially, take so much abuse from the fans and the media --- perhaps its deservedly so, but I know a fake and a fraud when I see one. At least Marbury tried to make somewhat of a difference through philanthropic efforts, but to some he'll always wear the black hat, while Houston will always find himself exalted by others for some reason.

I dont give a damn about Houston's knees, others have dealt with much, much worse. I find it self-serving at the very best that he is now ready to play.

Sebstar, I would like to say for the most part I enjoy reading your posts. You are generally insightful and fair.

However, I think you are way off-base on this Houston issue. Outside of what you think of him personally, his knee injuries have been neither small nor easy to deal with, nor has he stolen money from anyone or dishonored his commitment to the fans of the Knicks.

I can speak of this firsthand, because I am a relatively young man who has gone through the exact same injuries that Houston has. As of this writing, I have had 5 cartilage knee surgeries, 4 on my left knee including a microfracture, 2 meniscectomies, and finally a cartilage transplant 2 years ago. I will have another surgery soon to check that knee out and do any repairs that might be necessary.

Cartilage injuries have been the leading cause of knee injury retirements across high-level sports for a long time. After my third surgery, my doctor reported to me that my knee resembled that of a 65 year old former athlete. Imagine what Houston's looked like!

The pain associated with a degenerative cartilage condition is immense and it only gets worse with time and use, especially the use of pro basketball. Houston played through that pain for years before he let it derail his career, then he tried mightily to come back from it.

Houston has not been stealing fron the fans for the last 2 years of his retirement. He did not retire because he wanted to. He retired because he would only be able to play 25% of the time and at a diminished capacity. By retiring, which I am sure he did at the behest of James Dolan, he allowed Dolan to save between 25 and 30 million dollars because insurance pays the bulk of Houston's contract while retired, Dolan pays it if he is active.

The reason Houston states his knees feel great now is that he hasn't been playing basketball for the last 2 years. I am sure they won't feel so good once he has to put them through the rigors of the NBA season. He won't be able to play big minutes, and he very likely won't be nearly as good as he was.

Finally, in the articles I have read, the feeling has been that he would give the Knicks first shot at signing him. If he shows up at the Garden in a different uniform, it will be because the Knicks no longer want him (I don't think they should sign him.).

If the Knicks don't want him, why should he just decide not to play with anyone? Why would we begrudge him trying to finish out his career on his terms with a team that wants him? I think the answer is we should not.

Good luck Allan Houston.

oohah

Very personal, very fair, and very well done post. I sympathize with your medical plight, believe me --- I've been there. And I'll concede the notion that I may have been a tad bit dismissive when it came to Houston's knees, due to some positioning him as a Purple Heart candidate and my own personal opinions of Houston as a man.

Players deal with excruciating pain on a daily basis, and most if very few at all are as handsomely rewarded as Houston was the last few years. And this where you and I hit a violent fork in the road. He was paid an extraordinary amount of money --- and I dont care how much one likes him or wants to scapegoat management --- the Knicks haven't seen much return on that investment.

I feel its his duty as a man of such high moral ground, to make a genuine effort to return to the team that has provided him such wealth, rather than piggy back on some other team or benefit a rival organization. Houston brings what we are in great need of --- outside shooting. He could make a big difference.



My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
Allanfan20
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8/13/2007  11:10 PM
Sebstar, the word on the street is that signing back with the Knicks is his first priority. If they don't want him, nothing he can do about that. He can go to another team.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
TMS
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8/13/2007  11:43 PM
better question is would u guys forgive him if he came back to play for any other team BESIDES the Knicks... i'd wish him the best & would be OK if he went out WEST to join a contender, but if he joined up w/a conference rival like the Heat, Bulls or Celtics, i'd be highly disappointed in the guy... i wouldn't mind so much if he went back to DET though, because at least he has some roots there.

[Edited by - TMS on 08-13-2007 11:45 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
codeunknown
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8/14/2007  12:40 AM
I think Allan should be forgiven for his sins in a ceremony at MSG where he can be booed mercilessly.

This should happen after a Sprewell tribute.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
4949
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8/14/2007  6:57 AM
Posted by LongIslandKnicksFan:

...if he came to the Knicks and played for FREE? This would be something that would never happen, but what would be your thoughts if he did it for free and said that he loves New York and wants to give back to the fans... Of course, this wouldn't happen because he can probably make a million or two somewhere else...

I have to say, I'm not too sure of what your getting at here.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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8/14/2007  7:03 AM
Posted by Nalod:


Forgive him for signing two contracts that was offered to him?

Why would anyone hold that against him? The owner approves the contracts, the president does the financials and the GM identifies the players.

The real problem with this whole thing regarding Houston was that 'the whole contract was a bad idea in the first place'. The guy who signed him to it, should be tied up high onto the Empire State Building, with a big sign around his nech that reads 'BIG DUMMY' so's all of the world can see!
I'll never trust this' team again.
Would you forgive Allan...

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