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What kind of team are we
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nixluva
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8/7/2007  11:22 PM
LIke i've said before, teams like Wash get all kinds of slack, but they STINK on D. They just happen to be a great offensive team. We're gonna defend more than they do and since out offense should be improved i'm expecting our point differential to improve a great deal this year. We were -2.9 last year and I think we can get to a +1 or 2 this year.

Part of the reason will be a more efficient offense and a more consistently solid offense, now that we have another post player to allow us to run our offense well for 48 mins.

I expect our FTA's to go up again and our TO's to go down. Part of our problem on offense was unforced errors and Offensive fouls. I forsee fewer of those things happening. Curry should have more room and thus fewer bowl over plays and forced shots. The guards will have an easier time feeding the post with Zach out there keeping another defender honest, plus he's another big target, so we won't have to make as many tough passes.

Lee and Balk should clean up since they'll be free to crash the boards. Teams will be so preoccupied with trying to keep Zach and Curry from doing anything. There's a real trickle down effect from adding Zach and all we need to know now is what Isiah will do at the end of Aug. IF he makes the right move this team could really have a big year.
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Bippity10
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8/8/2007  10:24 AM
And until Washington starts playing defense they have no chance to win a title. So we should not be thriving to be better than Washington. We should be thriving to be as good as San Antonio in the long run. Therefore we must improve our defense. If we are worrying about this year than you are correct but if we are looking for a long-term solution and competing for a title we must improve our defense.
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nixluva
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8/8/2007  11:38 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

And until Washington starts playing defense they have no chance to win a title. So we should not be thriving to be better than Washington. We should be thriving to be as good as San Antonio in the long run. Therefore we must improve our defense. If we are worrying about this year than you are correct but if we are looking for a long-term solution and competing for a title we must improve our defense.

The way I see it, the real problem Isiah has had is not that he's ignorant or apathetic towards good defensive players, but that it's VERY hard to get good 2 way players. Usually someone like that is either gonna be a major piece on a team or a high draft pick and even then there are few of them in every draft. So teams settle for someone who is great at one side of things, Tyrus Thomas is a prime example, as would be Balkman. Most of the time when you get a top player its a somewhat offensively slanted guy.

This is the 1st draft where Isiah was able to get 2 guys that can score and defend at a high level. He has to make sure these kind of players are more the norm than the rarity. That's why I want to see him trade Jared and Nate. While I love Nate's offensive ability it's mostly about him, as he's only now starting to learn how to play team ball. Jared doesn't do anything at a hgh level and at this point we can replace him with someone that is more productive.

In any event it is going to take some time to get this team to a level like SA, if we could ever get that high, which I doubt. I don't even think it's necessary as long as you can be dominant on offense and really solid on D. Chicago is really good on D and has an explosive offense, but it's not dominant. They have a style of offense that is so perimeter oriented that they can't really impose their will on every team. A good perimeter defensive team will be able to slow them down. If Isiah can refine this roster so that we can have a more balanced offensive attack, I like our offense better, cuz we're dominant inside. By extension I think that the D would improve as well, since a refined roster would leave us with our better defensive and 2 way players, getting more PT. IF he can do this, It might not all come together this year, but I believe in the following years we'd be a top team.
Bippity10
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8/8/2007  11:59 AM
I don't think he's ignorant or apathetic to it all. Isiah came from defense and knows defense. The problem is that he has been at odds with himself for the two prior years. He wanted to create excitement and fill the seats in the beginning and targeted younger and more atlhetic players that did not have the willingness to play defense. When these players didn't perform he blamed the current coaches. NOw that he is coaching he is remembering what is needed to win and is magically able to find these players in the draft. Hopefully he will continue this.

Now Nixluva you are truly starting to understand why people have been complaining for the past 3 years. WE all know in order to win we have to have a balanced roster and that is why it is so difficult to understand some of the moves that were made. NOw those same moves are blocking us from playing the young guys and possibly acquire future two way players. People weren't crying because they were haters, they were upset with exactly what you are starting to see.

Lastly, yes the 2 way player is becoming harder to find. But somehow well run organizations seem to find them.
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nixluva
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8/8/2007  12:22 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

I don't think he's ignorant or apathetic to it all. Isiah came from defense and knows defense. The problem is that he has been at odds with himself for the two prior years. He wanted to create excitement and fill the seats in the beginning and targeted younger and more atlhetic players that did not have the willingness to play defense. When these players didn't perform he blamed the current coaches. NOw that he is coaching he is remembering what is needed to win and is magically able to find these players in the draft. Hopefully he will continue this.

Now Nixluva you are truly starting to understand why people have been complaining for the past 3 years. WE all know in order to win we have to have a balanced roster and that is why it is so difficult to understand some of the moves that were made. NOw those same moves are blocking us from playing the young guys and possibly acquire future two way players. People weren't crying because they were haters, they were upset with exactly what you are starting to see.

Lastly, yes the 2 way player is becoming harder to find. But somehow well run organizations seem to find them.

Isiah from my recollection has been looking for tall, long and athletic players and I don't believe that was just so they could be offensive players. His 1st pick, Ariza was a guy that had defensive abilities and he's been drafting guys that at least have the physical ability to defend as well as score. At times this is the best you can do and you would look to teach them to defend on the pro level. Also finding guys that may not have really ever committed to playing D, but have the ability and willingness. Rip and Prince were primarily offensive players and they were convinced to play D. I think he always had Vets who knew how to defend in hopes that they'd be able to mentor the younger players. Guys like AD, JYD and Malik.

I think that he really had a lot of slim pickings when he got here and beggars can't be choosey, so he took the offensive minded players cuz that was at least gonna give him part of the equation and as you said it would be more exciting then watching a team of defensive players that can't score. Steph always had the ability to defend, but didn't. Q as well, but they weren't known for playing D at all. I think a lot of guys in the league are like that. Then you need time to develop a defensive chemistry which I think we can do here as more of the same players are here together for the longhaul. Last year he added Jared, Balk & Mardy and now Chan and DNic. He just needs to keep going and clean up the roster a bit more. Since we don't have a shotblocker, Isiah is gonna have to make sure that he has a few solid defenders on the perimeter. This is another reason why you can just feel an Artest deal coming.

newyorknewyork
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8/8/2007  12:35 PM
Strong frontcourt defenses, ball control, balance, & a superstar wins championships. Unless Randolph turns into a strong defender im telling you that we aren't going to win any championships with a Curry-Randolph duo. If they prove me wrong I would be estatic. But I doubt it. As a roster we don't have not one of those elements above. This team might be good enough to get a decent seed in the east maybe win a couple playoff games. But at the end of the day I don't see them being a true contender. And that is if things go right. Because worst case senario, things could get really ugly lockeroom or off the court wise for some players. Though Isiah deos have a positive track record in that area.

It doesn't seem like we are ever are going to focus on building a team. Rather than just throwing talent together and hoping its good enough to make playoffs. If Curry was our guy then around him we should be adding a big veristile forward(or 2), that can guard 3s & face the basket 4s as well as score without plays called for him. With great help defense. A Robert Horry type. Basically what Jefferies should be, but isn't. But hopfully what Lee can turn into if pushed to be that way. As well as an intimidator/shotblocker/rebounding PF/C to complete the sipher.

Im liking what I forsee with what the trio of Chandler, Balkman, Nichols could develop into down the road on the perimeter.

And a of course a rebuilding of the backcourt. Im intrigued by Collins though. A pure playmaking pass first PG who could shoot the long ball with good accuracy would be a nice fit with him.
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nixluva
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8/8/2007  1:18 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

Strong frontcourt defenses, ball control, balance, & a superstar wins championships. Unless Randolph turns into a strong defender im telling you that we aren't going to win any championships with a Curry-Randolph duo. If they prove me wrong I would be estatic. But I doubt it. As a roster we don't have not one of those elements above. This team might be good enough to get a decent seed in the east maybe win a couple playoff games. But at the end of the day I don't see them being a true contender. And that is if things go right. Because worst case senario, things could get really ugly lockeroom or off the court wise for some players. Though Isiah deos have a positive track record in that area.

It doesn't seem like we are ever are going to focus on building a team. Rather than just throwing talent together and hoping its good enough to make playoffs. If Curry was our guy then around him we should be adding a big veristile forward(or 2), that can guard 3s & face the basket 4s as well as score without plays called for him. With great help defense. A Robert Horry type. Basically what Jefferies should be, but isn't. But hopfully what Lee can turn into if pushed to be that way. As well as an intimidator/shotblocker/rebounding PF/C to complete the sipher.

Im liking what I forsee with what the trio of Chandler, Balkman, Nichols could develop into down the road on the perimeter.

And a of course a rebuilding of the backcourt. Im intrigued by Collins though. A pure playmaking pass first PG who could shoot the long ball with good accuracy would be a nice fit with him.

The thing is that I believe that Isiah has been for the last 2 years trying to actually build a real team. From what I can see he's looking to balance this team in the right way, but it's not always a straight line. It's the zig zag nature of how he's doing things that seems to bother people most. I'm looking past all that and I see the underlying direction he's moving in and I think he's going the right way. He's had 3 really good drafts that have focused on the right kinds of players. So far he's stayed away from anymore bad MLE signings and I think he realizes his mistakes in that area. He can fix some of that with one good trade so let's hope he's successful in making the right deal. It doesn't have to be the Artest deal either, but it should refine the roster so that it makes more sense and guys that need to play can do so.
Bippity10
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8/8/2007  1:24 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by Bippity10:

I don't think he's ignorant or apathetic to it all. Isiah came from defense and knows defense. The problem is that he has been at odds with himself for the two prior years. He wanted to create excitement and fill the seats in the beginning and targeted younger and more atlhetic players that did not have the willingness to play defense. When these players didn't perform he blamed the current coaches. NOw that he is coaching he is remembering what is needed to win and is magically able to find these players in the draft. Hopefully he will continue this.

Now Nixluva you are truly starting to understand why people have been complaining for the past 3 years. WE all know in order to win we have to have a balanced roster and that is why it is so difficult to understand some of the moves that were made. NOw those same moves are blocking us from playing the young guys and possibly acquire future two way players. People weren't crying because they were haters, they were upset with exactly what you are starting to see.

Lastly, yes the 2 way player is becoming harder to find. But somehow well run organizations seem to find them.

Isiah from my recollection has been looking for tall, long and athletic players and I don't believe that was just so they could be offensive players. His 1st pick, Ariza was a guy that had defensive abilities and he's been drafting guys that at least have the physical ability to defend as well as score. At times this is the best you can do and you would look to teach them to defend on the pro level. Also finding guys that may not have really ever committed to playing D, but have the ability and willingness. Rip and Prince were primarily offensive players and they were convinced to play D. I think he always had Vets who knew how to defend in hopes that they'd be able to mentor the younger players. Guys like AD, JYD and Malik.

I think that he really had a lot of slim pickings when he got here and beggars can't be choosey, so he took the offensive minded players cuz that was at least gonna give him part of the equation and as you said it would be more exciting then watching a team of defensive players that can't score. Steph always had the ability to defend, but didn't. Q as well, but they weren't known for playing D at all. I think a lot of guys in the league are like that. Then you need time to develop a defensive chemistry which I think we can do here as more of the same players are here together for the longhaul. Last year he added Jared, Balk & Mardy and now Chan and DNic. He just needs to keep going and clean up the roster a bit more. Since we don't have a shotblocker, Isiah is gonna have to make sure that he has a few solid defenders on the perimeter. This is another reason why you can just feel an Artest deal coming.

It's about your core. Your rookies normally take the personality partly from the coach, but mostly from the team leaders(players). If the core group is a defensive group, you will see guys like Rip play hard on D. Why? Because if he doesn't it's not just the coach getting on you, it's all the starters and most of the bench. Unfortunately our core is Marbs, Curry, now Zach, was Frye, Jamal, Nate. A large core that does not play defense. The Rose's and Ad's and Junkyard's and Q's of the world are not going to change a core of 6 guys. All they are able to do is play hard and get frustrated watching the rest not play hard. They could not drive our defensive agenda, marbs and Curry and the rest do. When they as leaders of the team dedicate themselves fully to the defensive end then you will see the Jamal's and Nate's and the rest do so as well. The only other option is to hope that guys like Chandler and Nichols get good enough in a hurry to become the new core.

This is what I mean by wasting time. Getting guys that are athletic and exciting is great for Isiah and dolan but did nothing to improve our situation. They were moves for move sake. They brought in prettier players that were less productive than the old boring guys before them. WE all know this. Isiah knew this too.
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djsunyc
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8/8/2007  1:25 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by newyorknewyork:

Strong frontcourt defenses, ball control, balance, & a superstar wins championships. Unless Randolph turns into a strong defender im telling you that we aren't going to win any championships with a Curry-Randolph duo. If they prove me wrong I would be estatic. But I doubt it. As a roster we don't have not one of those elements above. This team might be good enough to get a decent seed in the east maybe win a couple playoff games. But at the end of the day I don't see them being a true contender. And that is if things go right. Because worst case senario, things could get really ugly lockeroom or off the court wise for some players. Though Isiah deos have a positive track record in that area.

It doesn't seem like we are ever are going to focus on building a team. Rather than just throwing talent together and hoping its good enough to make playoffs. If Curry was our guy then around him we should be adding a big veristile forward(or 2), that can guard 3s & face the basket 4s as well as score without plays called for him. With great help defense. A Robert Horry type. Basically what Jefferies should be, but isn't. But hopfully what Lee can turn into if pushed to be that way. As well as an intimidator/shotblocker/rebounding PF/C to complete the sipher.

Im liking what I forsee with what the trio of Chandler, Balkman, Nichols could develop into down the road on the perimeter.

And a of course a rebuilding of the backcourt. Im intrigued by Collins though. A pure playmaking pass first PG who could shoot the long ball with good accuracy would be a nice fit with him.

The thing is that I believe that Isiah has been for the last 2 years trying to actually build a real team. From what I can see he's looking to balance this team in the right way, but it's not always a straight line. It's the zig zag nature of how he's doing things that seems to bother people most. I'm looking past all that and I see the underlying direction he's moving in and I think he's going the right way. He's had 3 really good drafts that have focused on the right kinds of players. So far he's stayed away from anymore bad MLE signings and I think he realizes his mistakes in that area. He can fix some of that with one good trade so let's hope he's successful in making the right deal. It doesn't have to be the Artest deal either, but it should refine the roster so that it makes more sense and guys that need to play can do so.

so basically the mentality knicks fans have to take is to live with all his mistakes b/c one day, all the patience will pay off.

it's a philosphy a parent will use with a child who is having *problems* while growing up hoping taht one day he will mature and be on the right track.

it's also a philosphy battered spouses use when choosing to stay in the relationship hoping one day, the abusive spouse will stop punching them.

dolan utitlized this with sather and it worked for him. it took 7 years, but it worked for him. although an asterisk should probably be placed during the turnaround point as the strike basically re-set every team to ground zero.

fwiw, i suggest knicks fans take that mentality. it's really the only way to justify each move made even tho tangible results haven't accompanied them.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 08-08-2007 1:31 PM]
nixluva
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8/8/2007  2:34 PM
Isiah now has Zach, Curry and Lee as the heart of the team inside. What he does with the rest of the roster is where he'll either succeed or fail with this group. It's not about living with his mistakes as if he's just fumbling around. ALL GM's make mistakes, so to me that doesn't make him stand out as any worse. If he can get the right balance with the remaining players on the roster, this will be a successful build.

So you've got Zach, Curry & Lee. Then you have to find the right mix everywhere else. Which of the guys he's collected should be relied on to form the team he'll go to war with going forward? Right off the bat you have a group that we all seem to like as players that should remain. Balk, Mardy, Q, Chan & DNic. Then you've got guys like Jared and Nate that we're less sure about. Who knows about Morris at this point, but he doesn't hurt you to keep and see how he develops. Malik and James, we don't need, but they're here. Steph is OK for as long as he's here, but likely not part of our future, so i'm not really worried about him. Jamal could eventually take over for Steph at the point, but it depends on what he shows us this season. I don't have a problem with him being on the team at this point.

So then as a fan you have to decide, are you more concerned with winning this year or setting this team up to win for the next 5 years? It may be that the best move is not to make a deal for an immediate fix like Artest. Maybe it's best to stand pat and see what we've got. Maybe one or more of our young players will rise up to be what we need. If we wait and try to give the young guys a chance, then you can't complain if the team isn't a bigtime playoff team right away. All I know is that guys like Josh Howard, Devin Harris & Kevin Martin weren't guys that seemed like they were destined to be as good as they are, but you have to have the patience to go with a young talent to find out. Maybe we have some guys like them on the team already.
misterearl
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8/8/2007  2:42 PM
djsu - since when does making gradual upgrades to an NBA roster, as Isiah has done, need to become equated with domestic violence against women?

c'mon bro. you can do better than that.

I understand that you have an ax to grind against that smarmy Zekester but this is only basketball and the analogy was wack because you are implying the "philosophy" is that things are staying the same from one year to the next.

Quite the contrary, the Knicks franchise is a work in progress that will see even more radical changes over the next two seasons.

For better or worse, Isiah has been an aggressive agent of change.

once a knick always a knick
djsunyc
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8/8/2007  2:59 PM
Posted by nixluva:

So then as a fan you have to decide, are you more concerned with winning this year or setting this team up to win for the next 5 years?

it's a good question and it has more to do with your faith in the team than anything else. do you think this team is being set up to win for the next 5 years? if so, you can take some lumps now. but what if you don't think that? what if you're in the position where you don't think the players we have now are good enough? what should that fan do? how should he perceive the team and it's situation?

let's take a team like the bulls for example under paxson. they are still a pretty young team and are a rebuilding one...but they have been somewhat winning in the interim WHILE rebuilding. now, does that mean they're on the path to a title? no one can say, but why is it a team like that can win games, and in return, give fans alot of hope, while a team like ours don't win games? when you look at it that way, what should these fans do?

misterearl
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8/8/2007  3:09 PM
djsu - that is Chicago Bull**** and you know it. The Bulls missed the playoffs for seven, yes 7, years before they could regroup with their current crop of young players.

"somewhat winning" is as vague as it gets homes.

The only reason the Bulls fans had "hope" was they "hoped" the seats they invested in at United Center during the final Jordan years would eventually retain some reasonable entertainment value in their lifetime.

Instead of whining and moaning, Knicks fans need to "man up" in the same way Bulls fans did for the same seven years

once a knick always a knick
djsunyc
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8/8/2007  3:25 PM
Posted by misterearl:

djsu - that is Chicago Bull**** and you know it. The Bulls missed the playoffs for seven, yes 7, years before they could regroup with their current crop of young players.

"somewhat winning" is as vague as it gets homes.

The only reason the Bulls fans had "hope" was they "hoped" the seats they invested in at United Center during the final Jordan years would eventually retain some reasonable entertainment value in their lifetime.

Instead of whining and moaning, Knicks fans need to "man up" in the same way Bulls fans did for the same seven years

krause's rebuild blew chunks.
but paxson's has not.

when we talk about the bulls, should we go back to both era's or should we talk about the current gm with his vision of rebuilding?

i choose the latter b/c each gm is different, likes different players and have different philosophies. so when i refer to the bulls, i talk about the paxson era, which took a 20 win team to 40 within a year.

when you change a gm, it's almost a reset point for a fanbase b/c there's new HOPE. and paxson delivered within a year and then continued to build on that.

isiah made his splash immediately, then nothing. yeah, the knicks have the most youth in a while, why can the just as young (probably younger with only 1 player at age 30) 88 knicks win 52 games, but these knicks fight for 35? can you explain why? can anybody explain why? is it *possible* that isiah may just not be a good gm? it's like a "hey man, as long as it ain't layden, i'm cool."

let's not equate "manning up" to not whining/moaning b/c those are two completely different things. when have you ever heard of a ny fan NOT complain?
nixluva
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8/8/2007  3:30 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by nixluva:

So then as a fan you have to decide, are you more concerned with winning this year or setting this team up to win for the next 5 years?

it's a good question and it has more to do with your faith in the team than anything else. do you think this team is being set up to win for the next 5 years? if so, you can take some lumps now. but what if you don't think that? what if you're in the position where you don't think the players we have now are good enough? what should that fan do? how should he perceive the team and it's situation?

let's take a team like the bulls for example under paxson. they are still a pretty young team and are a rebuilding one...but they have been somewhat winning in the interim WHILE rebuilding. now, does that mean they're on the path to a title? no one can say, but why is it a team like that can win games, and in return, give fans alot of hope, while a team like ours don't win games? when you look at it that way, what should these fans do?

It's a fair question, but I think this team was on the way to showing more improvement last year and I expect that to continue this season. Even tho the team ended up only winning 33 games, I think it's more than fair to say that this team has a better future than the 33 win team we had before.

The Bulls current build is a step ahead of us. We basically started this current build with Curry, Q, Frye, Lee and Nate coming in that summer. Since then we've played 2 full seasons and one was sabotaged IMO. I fully expect things to pick up steam this season and I would hope that most fans could see thru the poor W/L record and see how this team has been reshaped and built for the present and future. My giving the team the benefit of the doubt is really the major difference between my take on things and that of others. We're all pretty close on what we think this team will do this season. Some of us can see that this team is getting better, despite the W/L record not yet showing it. It seems that others may only really judge it by the W/L record and that's fine, but I view things differently. The team is getting better IMO and the wins will come.
djsunyc
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8/8/2007  3:35 PM
Posted by misterearl:

djsu - since when does making gradual upgrades to an NBA roster, as Isiah has done, need to become equated with domestic violence against women?

technically i said spouses, *YOU* said women...

but the example was used to show the thought process for something positive (like raising your child through problems) and something negative (in my example, spousal abuse) stem from the same place in the brain. could i have used a better example? sure.

that's why you have this hater/lover thing on this forum.
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8/8/2007  3:40 PM
True.

New Yorkers have a right to complain. C'mon, the entire transporation system was ground to a crawl by a 2 inch rainstorm.

Although Paxton did a job a turning the Bulls towards the playoffs, the fact he inherited Krauss's mess might have had some benefits that were unique to that franchise.

My sense is that as the Knicks franchise has always operated on the assumption of "make it work the best way you can for today and fuggedabout five years from now because you won't be here five years from now..." has handicapped everyone from Eddie Donovan to Dave DeBusschere to Al Bianchi to Isiah Thomas.

I don't know, or care, if Isiah Thomas has a long-term "vision" of rebuilding or if he's operationg within the same short time frame as predecesors. I don't put extra stock in what he sez to the media because at the end of the day he, and we, all know he needs to deliver in the W-L column immediately.

There is no five, six or seven year plan in New York.

Never has been. Never will be. I don't know if that is a shame or not. But I ain't spending one second of my time worrying about any elusive corporate philosophy when I don't know whether the prime motivation of the owner is an NBA championship, making the playoffs or just playing the guitar.

Now, if Bill Bradley was in charge...
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Bippity10
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8/8/2007  3:43 PM
Posted by nixluva:

Isiah now has Zach, Curry and Lee as the heart of the team inside. What he does with the rest of the roster is where he'll either succeed or fail with this group. It's not about living with his mistakes as if he's just fumbling around. ALL GM's make mistakes, so to me that doesn't make him stand out as any worse. If he can get the right balance with the remaining players on the roster, this will be a successful build.

So you've got Zach, Curry & Lee. Then you have to find the right mix everywhere else. Which of the guys he's collected should be relied on to form the team he'll go to war with going forward? Right off the bat you have a group that we all seem to like as players that should remain. Balk, Mardy, Q, Chan & DNic. Then you've got guys like Jared and Nate that we're less sure about. Who knows about Morris at this point, but he doesn't hurt you to keep and see how he develops. Malik and James, we don't need, but they're here. Steph is OK for as long as he's here, but likely not part of our future, so i'm not really worried about him. Jamal could eventually take over for Steph at the point, but it depends on what he shows us this season. I don't have a problem with him being on the team at this point.

So then as a fan you have to decide, are you more concerned with winning this year or setting this team up to win for the next 5 years? It may be that the best move is not to make a deal for an immediate fix like Artest. Maybe it's best to stand pat and see what we've got. Maybe one or more of our young players will rise up to be what we need. If we wait and try to give the young guys a chance, then you can't complain if the team isn't a bigtime playoff team right away. All I know is that guys like Josh Howard, Devin Harris & Kevin Martin weren't guys that seemed like they were destined to be as good as they are, but you have to have the patience to go with a young talent to find out. Maybe we have some guys like them on the team already.

Since this is the direction I've going for a while now and goes back to my original point that at some point Isiah has to have a core group/player/couple to build around. His mistake in the past was just adding players to a roster and expecting the then current coach to make it work. There was no process behind it. There was no central figure or group to build out from. That first flurry of moves he made did very little for us in terms of building anything. It was made to create a buzz. There was little rhyme or reason to any of it. Noone was fooled, that Jalen, TT, MO group was not built to do anything but lose and it was ridiculous that we spent time arguing about it and calling people haters because of it.

Then he made a trade for Curry. Now I personally would not have made that trade, but looking at it as an objective and fair person I could not say, just because I didn't like the trade doesn't mean that it can't work. My opinion is independent from the possible realities of the trade. Now the only thing I expect Isiah to do is build around that acquisition. Even if he fails to bring a title, building around that player with a plan is enough for me to back my GM. So when I see him get a guy like Nichols to open up the outside, or a Lee to rebound, or a Balkman to defend(even though I wanted Marcus) it makes sense to me. But when I see a Steve Francis, I can't find a logical reason. Isiah needs to stay away from those types of moves.

Now he has Zach. Again, I wouldn't have made this trade but at least it makes some sense to me. You put a banger next to Curry that can go inside and out. Will they mesh? Their is strong evidence that they won't, but the jury is still out. It's up to them to make it happen and erase the doubts. Now the next question is what does Isiah do next. Looking at the roster it is obvious what we have to do. Since we are on an admitted 3-5 year plan(6-8 for Isiah) this is in no particular order:

PG: The facade needs to come to an end. Steph is not a leader and is on the downside of his career. In 3-5 years it will be worse. The time is now to phase him out. Stop half asseing and trying to eek out a few wins and start moving forward. Maybe Mardy is the guy. I don't think so, but maybe he is. But until he is we need to understand that with two post players, this is the most important position on the floor. We need a veteran to teach Mardy and need to target a young PG until we find the right one.

Perimeter Defense: With Curry and Zach in the frontcourt if the next acquisitions we make don't play perimeter defense than anyone defending the move is really kidding themselves. Unless they fill the next need

Dead Eye perimeter shooter: Not talking Jamal Crawford or Nate. I'm talking about a guy that can guard the two or the three and does not miss a shot. IF we also get that at the point than that's a bonus. But at any given time we should be able to put 2-3 dead eye shooters on the floor with Zach and Eddie that can make teams pay for doubling, and of those 3 positions 2 of them need to be able to defend well.

Shot Blocker: To clean up the mess Zach and Eddie will create. It would be great if you could somehow find that at the SF position but those are very few and far between.

If you do the above, and Eddie and Zach even give the slightest inkling towards playing defense and not just "trying" then you have a team that can truly compete. Until the team looks this way we will always be an also-ran. And if they don't work well together, guess what? We are building another core for the fourth time.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 08-08-2007 3:52 PM]
I just hope that people will like me
misterearl
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8/8/2007  3:47 PM
hater?

lover?

no such thing. it's like the juvenile exercise of labelling (and dividing) the entire political spectrum into "conservatives" or "liberals"

Anyone who hates the Knicks is no friend of mine. I don't think anyone who spends time contributing really hates the Knicks. If so, they need to go hang out with Aundray Blatche more often.

Anyone who unconditionally loves the Knicks needs to get out more often.

Just win baby



once a knick always a knick
nixluva
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8/8/2007  3:59 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

PG: The facade needs to come to an end. Steph is not a leader and is on the downside of his career. In 3-5 years it will be worse. The time is now to phase him out. Stop half asseing and trying to eek out a few wins and start moving forward. Maybe Mardy is the guy. I don't think so, but maybe he is. But until he is we need to understand that with two post players, this is the most important position on the floor. We need a veteran to teach Mardy and need to target a young PG until we find the right one.
Steph should be fine for right now, but I would love for this issue to be resolved. This seems to be the season where we should find out something about what we have and if it's gonna be good enough. I like Mardy, but I don't know how Isiah feels yet. A lot will depend on if Mardy develops his shooting. I think he does everything else well enough to get the job done. Then you still have Jamal and Nate as options, but they aren't naturally inclined to be distributors, so I'm doubtful.
Posted by Bippity10:

Perimeter Defense: With Curry and Zach in the frontcourt if the next acquisitions we make don't play perimeter defense than anyone defending the move is really kidding themselves. Unless they fill the next need
The only guys that fits the bill are Artest and maybe AK47. Not sure i'm in love with either move. Then we still have Balk, Mardy, Jared, Chan and DNic who I think have real potential in that area. So i'd say that isiah has addressed this need, but we for some reason tend to discount these players. This season will again be a good test to see what we've got, but only after isiah either cleans up the roster or takes a hard line on his rotations. If Jared isn't getting it done he sits.
Posted by Bippity10:

Dead Eye perimeter shooter: Not talking Jamal Crawford or Nate. I'm talking about a guy that can guard the two or the three and does not miss a shot. IF we also get that at the point than that's a bonus. But at any given time we should be able to put 2-3 dead eye shooters on the floor with Zach and Eddie that can make teams pay for doubling, and of those 3 positions 2 of them need to be able to defend well.
Again this sounds like we may already have guys to fill this need in Chan and DNic. Unless you would want us to try and make a deal for guys like Kapono, Carroll or Korver, which I see zero chance of happening. These guys will come from within.
Posted by Bippity10:

If you do the above, and Eddie and Zach even give the slightest inkling towards playing defense and not just "trying" then you have a team that can truly compete. Until the team looks this way we will always be an also-ran.
So it would seem to me that we aren't far off from being where you want this team to be. We'll find out once Aug. 28th hits and we can see what Isiah decides to do.
What kind of team are we

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