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Martin on Scott Layden
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spencerdoobie
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5/19/2003  1:53 PM
Posted by Pike:

BS, Doobie... total nonsense.

As I said earlier... we should be under the CAP if he did the right thing with Ewing... instead of a series of disastrous moves which culminated with the Rice, Eisley/Anderson deal... how 'bout Chris Childs AND a first round pick for Mark Jackson... no matter which deal you look at... one thing is certain... it would be a BAD deal. Layden's been wrong every time and we'll be guzillions over the cap until the end of the 2007 season... I think you've been using too much of your namesake if you can defend this man like you do. Blame Dolan for not being smart enough to FIRE this disaster of a GM.

[Edited by - Pike on 05/19/2003 13:35:45]


please explain to me when i said that layden has done a good job in ny? i have not siad that and i do not think that.........damn are you people a bunch of teenagers using your computers at school during lunch? all i am saying is that his hands were tied in the ewing situiation. in hindsight was it a good move? no, but i do believe at the time he did what he had to do.........i am not like you morons (pike, tkf) who sit here and as def says play "monday morning quarterback".......unlike you i remeber and understand the ewing situation and what a dilema it was, the politics invloved were very complicated..........like i said, in RETROSPECT it is easy to say it was a bad move.........of course it was! but AT THE TIME I really believe layden had no choice but to trade him..........damn, this is getting old

[Edited by - spencerdoobie on 05/20/2003 20:19:41]
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tkf
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5/19/2003  1:54 PM
doobie: you are smoking man..LOL... what you just typed is called "keyboard diahreah"!!! You still don't get it, first of all get off the eisley thing, you are proving nothing except that you got exposed now you are trying to harp on a typing technicality..LOL.. you are a fool man, does it matter that I left out eisley came from the mavs, we all know what the deal was, except for you, the point is the end result, so move on man you are getting killed there!!

As far as Ewing goes, if that was the best deal available then you don't make that move!!! At all!!!! Ewing was still very serviceable, no longer a Allstar but serviceable and at least could have been productive during his last year, but if that was the knicks best deal then they should have kept him!! why can't you understand that? Just because a guy demands a trade, you don't trade him for JUnk that will ruin your cap!! got damn man why is that hard to understand!!! And the only reason why malone keeps getting extensions in Utah is because that owner really like malone and has these distorted visions that they could give it one last run, but I guarantee you they will not trade him for JUnk no matter how much his game deteriorates!!!

The knicks could have IL Ewing if he didn't cooperate, remember this is a business and good Gm's who are left responsible with millions of dollars should not and would not make such fiscally irresponsible moves. To say that was his best move is stupid!!! NO move would have been his best move!!

But I guess you will come back with some weak shyt like, Well Eisley was with the mavs and you forgot to say that...LOL... Knucker up and stop fighting this losing battle!!
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Pike
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5/19/2003  1:59 PM
Teenager? Only reactions like yours can be put in that category... I'm here to talk ball... and you happen to be wrong... playing the over the cap game is DEATH in the NBA... and that was Layden's choice... he's paid 4.5MM a year to make good decisions and practically NONE of his have been anything but, disasterous...

Don't get me wrong, I think Dolan is a complete and utter moron as well but, if he hired the right person... we could all have some hope.

[Edited by - Pike on 05/19/2003 14:00:41]
tkf
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5/19/2003  2:02 PM
And another thing, you mention Layden drafted malone and stockton, hell don't be fooled a lot of that was the work of Layden Senior, Anderson and russel are non factors, to mention them as success is ridculous!!! hahaaa!!!!

But if you think 4 picks in 20 years is a proven track record then I can see why you think the Ewing deal was a success...

Hell I know GMs that had better drafts in 1 year than he has in 20 combined.....

why don't you talk to me about the Dice deal, or the chris childs deal, or drafting Eric chenowith and Wright, or the Rice deal, or the Anderson and eisley deal?

And another thing with grant hill, guys do a lot of politicing, Hill said Ewing was his idol but the buzz around the league was that FA's didn't want to go to the knicks because of him, Hill included, he spurned the knicks, and to support that point, You don't think those guys on the Wizzards didn't idolize Jordan comming up? but look how quick they wanted his azz out of town...

Wake up man!!!! WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
DefAndReb
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5/19/2003  2:05 PM
The knicks could have IL Ewing if he didn't cooperate, remember this is a business and good Gm's who are left responsible with millions of dollars should not and would not make such fiscally irresponsible moves. To say that was his best move is stupid!!! NO move would have been his best move!!

Fine, we disagree. I'm not talking about what we got in return, which was admittedly weak, but we didn't know that until later. If you were GM, and did that to Ewing (IL) your name would be Mudd in the NBA among players. No one would come play for you. That would be a stupid move. Overpaying for Rice/Longley was a problem, but it was overpaying for Eisley and Anderson, and giving Houston that undeserved, ridiculous contract (that he didn't even ask for, mind you) that make Layden bad as GM. I still say he did the right thing with Ewing, and that you should direct for frustration at Pat. Remember who Pat's agent is, and remember what that guy does to get what he wants. You don't mess with a powerful agent like Falk.
spencerdoobie
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5/19/2003  2:50 PM
Posted by tkf:

doobie: you are smoking man..LOL... what you just typed is called "keyboard diahreah"!!! You still don't get it, first of all get off the eisley thing, you are proving nothing except that you got exposed now you are trying to harp on a typing technicality..LOL.. you are a fool man, does it matter that I left out eisley came from the mavs, we all know what the deal was, except for you, the point is the end result, so move on man you are getting killed there!!

As far as Ewing goes, if that was the best deal available then you don't make that move!!! At all!!!! Ewing was still very serviceable, no longer a Allstar but serviceable and at least could have been productive during his last year, but if that was the knicks best deal then they should have kept him!! why can't you understand that? Just because a guy demands a trade, you don't trade him for JUnk that will ruin your cap!! got damn man why is that hard to understand!!! And the only reason why malone keeps getting extensions in Utah is because that owner really like malone and has these distorted visions that they could give it one last run, but I guarantee you they will not trade him for JUnk no matter how much his game deteriorates!!!

The knicks could have IL Ewing if he didn't cooperate, remember this is a business and good Gm's who are left responsible with millions of dollars should not and would not make such fiscally irresponsible moves. To say that was his best move is stupid!!! NO move would have been his best move!!

But I guess you will come back with some weak shyt like, Well Eisley was with the mavs and you forgot to say that...LOL... Knucker up and stop fighting this losing battle!!


what about my other points? don't see you responding to those......

like i have siad a million times at this point. i never said it was a good move to trade ewing. in retrospect of course it was a bad deal. get it straight, i agree that now it is easy to see that it did not work out for any party involved. all i said was his hands were tied at the time, he had to trade him no matter what you wnt to say now, 4 years later. keeping him was not an option. oh, and ewing was not "serviceable". Did you watch him in seattle and orlando?

of course utah is not going to trade malone becasue he has not demanded to be traded like ewing did, but agian nice try. if malone had another 2 years on his deal and told the jazz that he wanted to play 2 more years after his contract was that AND he sucked as bad as ewing did at that point in his career, you better believe the jazz would be on the phone with every team in the league trying to get some value in return.........but it is a terrible analogy you made (as usual) because malone is still a legit player while ewing was done! but good effort "dukes".....

when did grunfield work in utah?.........thanks
tkf
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5/19/2003  2:57 PM
Posted by spencerdoobie:
Posted by tkf:

doobie: you are smoking man..LOL... what you just typed is called "keyboard diahreah"!!! You still don't get it, first of all get off the eisley thing, you are proving nothing except that you got exposed now you are trying to harp on a typing technicality..LOL.. you are a fool man, does it matter that I left out eisley came from the mavs, we all know what the deal was, except for you, the point is the end result, so move on man you are getting killed there!!

As far as Ewing goes, if that was the best deal available then you don't make that move!!! At all!!!! Ewing was still very serviceable, no longer a Allstar but serviceable and at least could have been productive during his last year, but if that was the knicks best deal then they should have kept him!! why can't you understand that? Just because a guy demands a trade, you don't trade him for JUnk that will ruin your cap!! got damn man why is that hard to understand!!! And the only reason why malone keeps getting extensions in Utah is because that owner really like malone and has these distorted visions that they could give it one last run, but I guarantee you they will not trade him for JUnk no matter how much his game deteriorates!!!

The knicks could have IL Ewing if he didn't cooperate, remember this is a business and good Gm's who are left responsible with millions of dollars should not and would not make such fiscally irresponsible moves. To say that was his best move is stupid!!! NO move would have been his best move!!

But I guess you will come back with some weak shyt like, Well Eisley was with the mavs and you forgot to say that...LOL... Knucker up and stop fighting this losing battle!!


what about my other points? don't see you responding to those......

like i have siad a million times at this point. i never said it was a good move to trade ewing. in retrospect of course it was a bad deal. get it straight, i agree that now it is easy to see that it did not work out for any party involved. all i said was his hands were tied at the time, he had to trade him no matter what you wnt to say now, 4 years later. keeping him was not an option. oh, and ewing was not "serviceable". Did you watch him in seattle and orlando?

of course utah is not going to trade malone becasue he has not demanded to be traded like ewing did, but agian nice try. if malone had another 2 years on his deal and told the jazz that he wanted to play 2 more years after his contract was that AND he sucked as bad as ewing did at that point in his career, you better believe the jazz would be on the phone with every team in the league trying to get some value in return.........but it is a terrible analogy you made (as usual) because malone is still a legit player while ewing was done! but good effort "dukes".....

when did grunfield work in utah?.........thanks

first of all I never said Grunfeld worked for utah I was responding to the jobs other GMs did here in comparison to layden, If all you got are corrections to typos the you are wasting my time. Your shyt is weak and you have been exposed..period!!!
You are the fool that said that the knicks signed Anderson to that deal actually you almost swore by it and I know that was no typo... you are wasting my time man. as swish put it earlier..This game is over!!!
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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5/19/2003  3:00 PM
Posted by DefAndReb:
The knicks could have IL Ewing if he didn't cooperate, remember this is a business and good Gm's who are left responsible with millions of dollars should not and would not make such fiscally irresponsible moves. To say that was his best move is stupid!!! NO move would have been his best move!!

Fine, we disagree. I'm not talking about what we got in return, which was admittedly weak, but we didn't know that until later. If you were GM, and did that to Ewing (IL) your name would be Mudd in the NBA among players. No one would come play for you. That would be a stupid move. Overpaying for Rice/Longley was a problem, but it was overpaying for Eisley and Anderson, and giving Houston that undeserved, ridiculous contract (that he didn't even ask for, mind you) that make Layden bad as GM. I still say he did the right thing with Ewing, and that you should direct for frustration at Pat. Remember who Pat's agent is, and remember what that guy does to get what he wants. You don't mess with a powerful agent like Falk.

We may agree to disagree here because I don't agree that he made the right move with Ewing, I do agree that Dolan is just as responsible to ruining this team but I am not going to get mad with Pat because he was trying to make a business move, but what angers me is that layden gave in and ruined the team for years to come, Ewing has retired, and we will still feel the negtive ramafications of this ugly deal!!
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
spencerdoobie
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5/19/2003  3:07 PM
Posted by tkf:

And another thing, you mention Layden drafted malone and stockton, hell don't be fooled a lot of that was the work of Layden Senior, Anderson and russel are non factors, to mention them as success is ridculous!!! hahaaa!!!!

But if you think 4 picks in 20 years is a proven track record then I can see why you think the Ewing deal was a success...

Hell I know GMs that had better drafts in 1 year than he has in 20 combined.....

why don't you talk to me about the Dice deal, or the chris childs deal, or drafting Eric chenowith and Wright, or the Rice deal, or the Anderson and eisley deal?

And another thing with grant hill, guys do a lot of politicing, Hill said Ewing was his idol but the buzz around the league was that FA's didn't want to go to the knicks because of him, Hill included, he spurned the knicks, and to support that point, You don't think those guys on the Wizzards didn't idolize Jordan comming up? but look how quick they wanted his azz out of town...

Wake up man!!!! WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


"the buzz around the league"? LMFAO who do you think you are? oh man that is funny stuff.........

how can you criticize someone for second round draft chioces? do yourself a favor, go look up all of the second round draft choices from the last 10 years and let me know how many play signifigant minutes, let alone are still in the league........then tell me if anderson and rusell are good picks.........how can you call starters/contributors on a team that went to the playoffs every year and 2 nbs finals "non-factors?" true, wright and chenowith were horrible picks, but they were in the second round. second round pick are crap shoots and layden has two of the best second round picks ever

by the way when did i say that layden has done a good job? when did i say the ewing trade was a success? i have never said that, you just don't get it at all. i agree layden has made some bad moves. the childs-jackson trade sucked becasue he included a first round draft pick........as far as the dyees trade goes, that was another good deal to make at the time. find me a gm who would not have made that deal at the time. personally i think the jury is still out. but of course you being the master of dealing in the past and judging trades 3 years later can easily say it was a bad move.......if dyees never regains any of the old form of course it was a bad move.......OF COURSE IT WAS! but let's see what happens ultimatley in the end before we judge that move........if he's healthy he is one of the top 3 big men in the east (j o'niel, b wallace the other 2)

lastly, would you rather have glen rice or eisley and anderson? that was a good move personel wise, but not salary cap wise......the MISTAKE was getting rice in the first place. as i said before in retrospect it is easy to say that. you have shown that even with a very diminished capacity it is easy to judge trades 3 years after the fact......


was layden senior the one who drafted malone and stockton or was it grunfield?
Pike
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5/19/2003  3:15 PM
- the mistake was not letting Ewing walk
- the mistake was trading for Rice
- the mistake was INEXPLICABLY giving Rice a 4 year 36MM contract when he only had one remaining when the trade was consummated
- the mistake was trading for 2006/07 Anderson/Rice ... personnel wise HELLO, as you said, it was a CAP TRADE DISASTER...

I'm going to write a book... "How To Ruin A Franchise" by architect, Scott Layden... and doobie, you don't have to say for the 4th time, where did I say Layden's doing a good job... just quit while you're behind. If this were a prize fight, it would have been mercifully stoped long ago. (rolling eyes, shaking head)
necrom33
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5/19/2003  3:26 PM
- the mistake was not letting Ewing walk
- the mistake was trading for Rice
- the mistake was INEXPLICABLY giving Rice a 4 year 36MM contract when he only had one remaining when the trade was consummated
- the mistake was trading for 2006/07 Anderson/Rice ... personnel wise HELLO, as you said, it was a CAP TRADE DISASTER...

awww, man, don't stop there. How's about paying over 100MM to a player no one would give over 70MM to? or contract extension after contract extension to a laughing stock of a coach?
Pike
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5/19/2003  3:32 PM
... covered that on another thread.
necrom33
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5/19/2003  3:38 PM
Posted by Pike:

... covered that on another thread.

Oh, yeah... threads... forgot about those!
tkf
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5/19/2003  3:43 PM
Posted by Pike:

- the mistake was not letting Ewing walk
- the mistake was trading for Rice
- the mistake was INEXPLICABLY giving Rice a 4 year 36MM contract when he only had one remaining when the trade was consummated
- the mistake was trading for 2006/07 Anderson/Rice ... personnel wise HELLO, as you said, it was a CAP TRADE DISASTER...

I'm going to write a book... "How To Ruin A Franchise" by architect, Scott Layden... and doobie, you don't have to say for the 4th time, where did I say Layden's doing a good job... just quit while you're behind. If this were a prize fight, it would have been mercifully stoped long ago. (rolling eyes, shaking head)

LOL.. pike I have stopped responding to him, he is repeating the same stuff and doesn't get it, I KO'D his azz several posts ago and he just won't stop.. He wants us to give layden credit for Anderson and Russel!!! LOL!!!! And then he ask me to name him in the last 10 years other 2nd round picks that are better!!LOL.. I tell you he loves walking into these but here it goes..:

here is doobies post: how can you criticize someone for second round draft chioces? do yourself a favor, go look up all of the second round draft choices from the last 10 years and let me know how many play signifigant minutes, let alone are still in the league........then tell me if anderson and rusell are good picks......

Lucious Harris
Nick Van Exel. Yes the same guy tearing up the playoffs!!!
Voshon Lenard
Rebraca
Andrew Declerq
Eric snow
Othella Harrington
Moochie Norris

Want me to stop?
Hell no!!

Jeff Mcinnis
Malik Rose: Key minutes on a championship team!!
Mark Jackson
Alvin Williams!!
Chris crawford
Cuttino Mobley
Rashard Lewis!!!!!!!!!!
Shammond Williams
Ruben patterson
Tod Mccullough
Calvin Booth

Here I come off the Top Rope!!

Marco Jaric
Eduardo Najera , yes from the maverics!!
Gilbert Arenas!!!!!
Earl watson..

And guess what, this is not even a full 10 years!!!
Russel and Anderson Suck, I would take any of these guys on the list over them in a heartbeat!!

YOU HAVE JUST BEEN ERASED DOOBIE:
GOODBYE!!!
CLOWN!!
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
BRIGGS
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5/19/2003  3:45 PM
New York daily News reported today that Mcdyess wont be back until Jan1 2004 at the earliest and that his career is most likely done.
RIP Crushalot😞
tkf
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5/19/2003  3:46 PM
Oh and by the way..Layden didn't have a hand in any of those picks...LOL!!!!!!!!!!
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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5/19/2003  3:47 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

New York daily News reported today that Mcdyess wont be back until Jan1 2004 at the earliest and that his career is most likely done.

haha.... that just figures!!!! Damn!!
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
KARNIVORE
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Nigeria
5/19/2003  3:51 PM
PIKE & TKF are the tag team champions !!! lol..... BRIGGS......ah well, one more drop of rain on the parade !!!
ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL, BUT THEY ARE NOT TREATED EQUAL !!!
DefAndReb
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5/19/2003  4:04 PM
Posted by necrom33:

awww, man, don't stop there. How's about paying over 100MM to a player no one would give over 70MM to? or contract extension after contract extension to a laughing stock of a coach?

The Allan Houston deal, to me, is the defining screw-up deal that puts Layden at the bottom of the GM barrel. I wanted Houston out of town, and Layden gives him 100m, highest-paid Knick ever. Huh?!
tkf
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5/19/2003  4:10 PM
Posted by DefAndReb:
Posted by necrom33:

awww, man, don't stop there. How's about paying over 100MM to a player no one would give over 70MM to? or contract extension after contract extension to a laughing stock of a coach?

The Allan Houston deal, to me, is the defining screw-up deal that puts Layden at the bottom of the GM barrel. I wanted Houston out of town, and Layden gives him 100m, highest-paid Knick ever. Huh?!

Haha.. and to top that off, layden was bidding against himself and still lost.. no other team expressed real interest. Houston said himslf he wanted to stay in NY, started building a new home in CONN..
And in classic layden fashion, he panicked and gave Houston 100M...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
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