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You Guys Do Realize Realistically We Need to Blow This Up?
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MS
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7/24/2007  11:44 AM
The thing with Okafur is he blks a ton of shots, he alters a ton of shots and he makes people have to work when they come in the lane, Curry doesn't do that and he should....

Ok I would trade Crawford, Morris, Nate, Zach and Chandler for Chris Paul and you know what would happen the knicks would be one of the best teams in the entire league thats a fact he would get our frontcourt so many easy baskets it's disgusting, we would lee the nba in pts in the paint and dunks.

Paul/Collins
Marbury/Nicholas
Q/Balkman
Lee/Jefferies
Curry/Rose

I know West doesn't command the doubles that curry does but he scores and rebounds at the same rate, plays better defense and doesn't turn it over that much, which is going to be a huge problem, crawford, nate, eddy, zach all suck at taking care of the ball.
AUTOADVERT
COSSUCKS
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7/24/2007  11:50 AM
The biggest thing we lack is a ball distributing PG that makes other players better. Thats why Crawfords occasional setups stand out so much.

Okafor is great but despite his great defense and Currys poor defense Curry still out scored him and shot a much higher percentage head to head.

If you watch some of the Bobcats vs Knicks games Curry seems to wear him down. Often early Okafor gets some blocks and then late in the games Curry manhandles him. That said Okafor playing PF next to Curry would probably put us in the NBA finals.
tkf
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7/24/2007  11:52 AM
Posted by COSSUCKS:
Posted by MS:

add zack those other players really don't bring anything to the table, to date no one in the knicks young core has made an allstar team, so i am wondering how many of the above you would trade places with

I think your whole list only had 3 all stars on it.

Thats your opinion that Zach, Crawford and Qrich dont bring anything to the table. I find it doubtful that NBA players would share that opinion.
I prefer our group to all of them outside of Portland and maybe Charlotte.

If most of those guys were Knicks you would be bashing them probably.


I agree, he would be bashing them. I looked at the Hawks and I have been a hawks season ticket holder for a few years, and the fact that he has shelden williams on that list makes me laugh. I think our yough competes with any team on that list...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
MS
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7/24/2007  11:53 AM
Well if you think we have such great young talent why not give the cats, Nate, Chandler, Morris and Randolf for Okafur and see if they take it?

Would you do that deal?
MS
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7/24/2007  11:56 AM
Williams was awful last season but if you put morris on the list or chandler you put on williams who had a good summer league rebounding the basketball.

I love Johnson, and really like Smith even though he is braindead and plays out of control. But he has improved every year. Childress I like as a player because he can do a variety of things and is tradable.....

I wouldn't be bashing them I would be bashing the GM who never makes the right decisions
tkf
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7/24/2007  11:57 AM
Posted by COSSUCKS:
Posted by MS:

You can actually trade people in the group as opposed to ours. Why would I give anyone the benefit of the doubt besides lee and balkman.

And in the Western Conference the year before Paul Came

2004-2005 18-64
Enter Paul
2005-2006 38-44
2006-2007 39-43 (Injures to west, paul, jackson, peja, chandler, mason) they got hit worse than us and won 39 games in the west.......If you don't think he makes his group better i think there is a reason you are so optimistic about the knicks.....

Would you take Josh Smith over David Lee or Balkman? Would you take Horford the our last two drafts?
You keep wanting to make this about individuals instead of groups.
Pretty much everyone on our 27 and under list has value. Charlotte reportedly offered their lottery pick for Dlee and Jcraw and WE REFUSED!

Any player that leads the NBA in points in the paint while making 8 mill has value

Any player who can average a double double off the bench while shooting 60% has value

Any player that is one of only 5 to put up 20-10 has value

No I wouldnt take Josh Smith over David Lee.

I would take Horford over any single player in our last 2 drafts but I would not take him over Balk, Mardy, Chandler, Nichols and Morris.

I like josh smith, but it is funny how he gets praised yet displays a lot of the same traits guys like MS and others knock marbury and others for. The hawks have yet to extend josh and they are really thinking about moving him, he has had problems with coaches and teamates, this kid had attitude problems since his AAU days, I used to go to some of those games and watch him pout and throw fits on the bench as he was taken out, and this was a guy that had players like Dwight Howard on his team along with randolph morris, he was known as a selfish individual.... Yet he is god around here to some, simply because he doesn't wear a knick uniform. That is some sad shyt!
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
COSSUCKS
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7/24/2007  11:58 AM
Posted by MS:

Well if you think we have such great young talent why not give the cats, Nate, Chandler, Morris and Randolf for Okafur and see if they take it?

Would you do that deal?

If Oaks back problems are behind him I would for sure
islesfan
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7/24/2007  12:00 PM
Posted by COSSUCKS:

Okafor is great. One of my favorite nba players but he is really a Pf height and thats why Charlotte usually plays him with a center.

Head to Head

Curry-36.2mpg-20.5ppg-53%FG-2.8orb-6.7rpg-.3bpg
E Oak-37.5mpg-12.0ppg-43%FG-2.7orb-10.2rpg-2.7bpg

If Charlotte is playing Okafor at PF and usually plays someone else at center, why are you comparing them head to head when they aren't playing each other head to head?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
COSSUCKS
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7/24/2007  12:01 PM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by COSSUCKS:
Posted by MS:

You can actually trade people in the group as opposed to ours. Why would I give anyone the benefit of the doubt besides lee and balkman.

And in the Western Conference the year before Paul Came

2004-2005 18-64
Enter Paul
2005-2006 38-44
2006-2007 39-43 (Injures to west, paul, jackson, peja, chandler, mason) they got hit worse than us and won 39 games in the west.......If you don't think he makes his group better i think there is a reason you are so optimistic about the knicks.....

Would you take Josh Smith over David Lee or Balkman? Would you take Horford the our last two drafts?
You keep wanting to make this about individuals instead of groups.
Pretty much everyone on our 27 and under list has value. Charlotte reportedly offered their lottery pick for Dlee and Jcraw and WE REFUSED!

Any player that leads the NBA in points in the paint while making 8 mill has value

Any player who can average a double double off the bench while shooting 60% has value

Any player that is one of only 5 to put up 20-10 has value

No I wouldnt take Josh Smith over David Lee.

I would take Horford over any single player in our last 2 drafts but I would not take him over Balk, Mardy, Chandler, Nichols and Morris.

I like josh smith, but it is funny how he gets praised yet displays a lot of the same traits guys like MS and others knock marbury and others for. The hawks have yet to extend josh and they are really thinking about moving him, he has had problems with coaches and teamates, this kid had attitude problems since his AAU days, I used to go to some of those games and watch him pout and throw fits on the bench as he was taken out, and this was a guy that had players like Dwight Howard on his team along with randolph morris, he was known as a selfish individual.... Yet he is god around here to some, simply because he doesn't wear a knick uniform. That is some sad shyt!

Nate dunks= side show
Josh dunks= unreal leaping

Nate causes problems= cancer
Josh cause problems= youth growing pains
COSSUCKS
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7/24/2007  12:01 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by COSSUCKS:

Okafor is great. One of my favorite nba players but he is really a Pf height and thats why Charlotte usually plays him with a center.

Head to Head

Curry-36.2mpg-20.5ppg-53%FG-2.8orb-6.7rpg-.3bpg
E Oak-37.5mpg-12.0ppg-43%FG-2.7orb-10.2rpg-2.7bpg

If Charlotte is playing Okafor at PF and usually plays someone else at center, why are you comparing them head to head when they aren't playing each other head to head?

They play each other about 50% of each game is a fair estimate
MS
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7/24/2007  12:02 PM
well aware of smiths problems, but the guy has good value around the league if i was the hawks i would look to move him with another player, because i think the

Johnson, Marvin Williams or Childress, Horford 2-4 is going to be very effective. I bet the Suns would be very interested in kid
tkf
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7/24/2007  12:02 PM
Posted by COSSUCKS:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by COSSUCKS:
Posted by MS:

You can actually trade people in the group as opposed to ours. Why would I give anyone the benefit of the doubt besides lee and balkman.

And in the Western Conference the year before Paul Came

2004-2005 18-64
Enter Paul
2005-2006 38-44
2006-2007 39-43 (Injures to west, paul, jackson, peja, chandler, mason) they got hit worse than us and won 39 games in the west.......If you don't think he makes his group better i think there is a reason you are so optimistic about the knicks.....

Would you take Josh Smith over David Lee or Balkman? Would you take Horford the our last two drafts?
You keep wanting to make this about individuals instead of groups.
Pretty much everyone on our 27 and under list has value. Charlotte reportedly offered their lottery pick for Dlee and Jcraw and WE REFUSED!

Any player that leads the NBA in points in the paint while making 8 mill has value

Any player who can average a double double off the bench while shooting 60% has value

Any player that is one of only 5 to put up 20-10 has value

No I wouldnt take Josh Smith over David Lee.

I would take Horford over any single player in our last 2 drafts but I would not take him over Balk, Mardy, Chandler, Nichols and Morris.

I like josh smith, but it is funny how he gets praised yet displays a lot of the same traits guys like MS and others knock marbury and others for. The hawks have yet to extend josh and they are really thinking about moving him, he has had problems with coaches and teamates, this kid had attitude problems since his AAU days, I used to go to some of those games and watch him pout and throw fits on the bench as he was taken out, and this was a guy that had players like Dwight Howard on his team along with randolph morris, he was known as a selfish individual.... Yet he is god around here to some, simply because he doesn't wear a knick uniform. That is some sad shyt!

Nate dunks= side show
Josh dunks= unreal leaping

Nate causes problems= cancer
Josh cause problems= youth growing pains

LOL.. exactly..... well said

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
MS
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7/24/2007  12:04 PM
Your also comparing a guy that blocked more shots than our starting frontcourt by himself to nate who has serious mental issues and clashes with everyone on the team and has his own agenda. Smith is not a choir boy, if nate was 6'8 with four foot arms they would be very similiar talents, but he isn't so its tougher to put up with a guy like nate
misterearl
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7/24/2007  12:06 PM
Josh gives the finger to the crowd - frustrated

Nate doesn't want to come out of game - bad sport

Josh curses at coach and is suspended - boys will be boys

Nate instigates Denver - get rid of him, whoops, hold up... team bonds and suddenly starts to play better basketball.. scratch that
once a knick always a knick
islesfan
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7/24/2007  12:07 PM
Posted by COSSUCKS:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by COSSUCKS:

Okafor is great. One of my favorite nba players but he is really a Pf height and thats why Charlotte usually plays him with a center.

Head to Head

Curry-36.2mpg-20.5ppg-53%FG-2.8orb-6.7rpg-.3bpg
E Oak-37.5mpg-12.0ppg-43%FG-2.7orb-10.2rpg-2.7bpg

If Charlotte is playing Okafor at PF and usually plays someone else at center, why are you comparing them head to head when they aren't playing each other head to head?

They play each other about 50% of each game is a fair estimate

So the head to head stats that you offered were in fact very misleading.

What were their head to head stats when they actually played each other?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
COSSUCKS
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7/24/2007  12:10 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by COSSUCKS:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by COSSUCKS:

Okafor is great. One of my favorite nba players but he is really a Pf height and thats why Charlotte usually plays him with a center.

Head to Head

Curry-36.2mpg-20.5ppg-53%FG-2.8orb-6.7rpg-.3bpg
E Oak-37.5mpg-12.0ppg-43%FG-2.7orb-10.2rpg-2.7bpg

If Charlotte is playing Okafor at PF and usually plays someone else at center, why are you comparing them head to head when they aren't playing each other head to head?

They play each other about 50% of each game is a fair estimate

So the head to head stats that you offered were in fact very misleading.

What were their head to head stats when they actually played each other?

You can only go with the best resource available. I dont think they were misleading at all.
nixluva
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7/24/2007  12:12 PM
Nate has some maturity issues, but I think he can grow up and be a very effective player. Look this team has guys that can produce in this league and the difference between wins and losses were often very small. It's not like this team wasn't in a lot of games with a chance to win, if we executed better. Those execution problems went all around the roster. The thing is that you can see this team getting better. The young players we rely on are going to be more dependable as we move along and I expect that along with the addition of Zach will mean more wins.

Isiah hasn't done as bad a job as so many want us to believe. No one is questioning if Paxson so far has put together a title team or if the Bobcats, Hawks, Sixers, Celtics or Hornets are a title team, but with Isiah they want to hold him up to the fire right now.
MS
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7/24/2007  12:17 PM
Earl of course you bring your one sided view to the table, both the guys are very troubled and both have bad attitudes, if you have to choose between one of the other you would choose:

Josh Smith

Nate to review got into two fights in the lockeroom, one on the court, has mental issues that the team wanted to get taken care of so they asked him to get help he refused. He isn't well liked by his teammates, if your going to have a headache you choose the most talented headache.

Who coaches the hawks, where is the history in the organization, where is the veteran leadership. I think he would have a little more respect for Isiah, but i am not being one sided here they both have their problems and frankly if i was building a team they wouldn't be on it
misterearl
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7/24/2007  12:32 PM
MS - who died and made you the arbiter of fair and balanced reporting?

one more thing, that pure bs on Nate. How do you know how he relates to his teammates if you've never been in the freakin' Knicks locker room?

ever

of course my views are one-sided

I only have one brain
once a knick always a knick
MS
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7/24/2007  12:43 PM
have a buddy that is very friendly with a current knick player who made that statement, not pure bs at all
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