Posted by kam77:

Hey. Kidd and Francis were two very recent examples off the top of my head. Granted Francis is not really a star so lets focus on Kidd.

Jason Kidd had a lot to say behind closed doors to management. First, he said sign ZO or else i won't re-sign. Nets sign ZO then let Martin walk. At that point, JK made some demands to be traded (sorry no sources, but pretty damn sure it happened). Nets consider moving him. Nets eventually placate him with VC.

Paul Pierce has been *this* close a few times to demanding a trade in public. So has JO. Each time, management steps in and soothes some feelings and patch things up for a little while.

We don't know how many times AI went to Billy King, frustrated, asking for help, dropping hints that he wanted to be dealt, before things actually came to that point of no return.

Just keep an open mind. Stars demand things all the time. sometimes they threaten that they'll go to the press with a trade demand. Its a ploy. Usually it doesn't become public.

from your own examples it sounds more to me like when star players go to management & want something, they usually get placated some way or another... so why is Lakers management messing around with Kobe here? first telling him 1 thing during their contract negotiations & then doing another? why put that stuff out there about Kobe & him orchestrating Shaq's departure & draw Kobe's ire? what is their purpose in alienating the best player the league has seen since MJ retired? & why would Kobe even want to stay there after all this mess? the Lakers have already passed on a potential trade for JO... what more does Kobe need to stick around to see at this point? that franchise obviously has different longterm goals than Kobe does... he wants to move on & the Lakers would do well to let him while getting as many young assets as they can instead of forcing an unhappy employee to stick around & give a half assed effort every night just to prove a point IMO

They can still make Kobe stay. The way they make him stay is by making a big splash that says "we're contending now." They do that by trading Bynum, picks and other assets for a J O'Neal or KG.

RemBee, if you were Jerry Buss or Mitch Kupchak.. why would you trade Kobe? How does it help to move him, especially when you don't have to?

Picture this... Kobe is still going to give 100% on the court or else his reputation takes a major hit... so if he dogs it, public opinion will swing to the Lakers.

So what does Buss/Kupchak have to lose by calling Kobe's bluff?

If i'm buss, i don't feel forced to do anything. Especially now when my guy is mad at me and bad-mouthing the direction. But at least give my GM a year or two to change Kobe's mind about the trade.

Posted by kam77:
If i'm buss, i don't feel forced to do anything.

You would think so. But again, there are a million examples of trade demands from a star forcing management's hand.

You are so sure Kobe would give 100%, I don't see why Buss would share your confidence. Not after Kobe shared his disgust with the organization with everyone who would listen. Not after he traveled to Spain to make his trade demand crystal clear. Not after he writes on his blog that the team doesn't share his passion for winning. Carter had a rep to defend too, before he started dogging it in Toronto to get out of there.

Neither of us know for sure, this back and forth can only stop when we know one way or the other next season. Just recognize that Lakers management has a lot less leverage in this dispute (if that’s what you want to call it right now) than most here are saying. A lot less.

If Kobe demands a trade to New York there is a real good chance that it happens. Period.

Posted by COSSUCKS:

After seeing the unselfish team first Spurs and Tim Duncan why would anyone want the most selfish me first player in the game?

Phil Jackson his own coach called him uncoachable. Here he is pointing his finger at his teammates again.

Could you imagine Duncan acting like this?

Nope thats why Knick fans need to remove their heads from the bright lights and look at the cold harsh reality of the possibility of having a Kobe Bryant on their team.

Do any of us know? Thats my point. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Than why do you keep claiming that all these different players requested trades? When as you said you don't know for sure.

Posted by kam77:

Hey. Kidd and Francis were two very recent examples off the top of my head. Granted Francis is not really a star so lets focus on Kidd.

Jason Kidd had a lot to say behind closed doors to management. First, he said sign ZO or else i won't re-sign. Nets sign ZO then let Martin walk. At that point, JK made some demands to be traded (sorry no sources, but pretty damn sure it happened). Nets consider moving him. Nets eventually placate him with VC.

Paul Pierce has been *this* close a few times to demanding a trade in public. So has JO. Each time, management steps in and soothes some feelings and patch things up for a little while.

We don't know how many times AI went to Billy King, frustrated, asking for help, dropping hints that he wanted to be dealt, before things actually came to that point of no return.

Just keep an open mind. Stars demand things all the time. sometimes they threaten that they'll go to the press with a trade demand. Its a ploy. Usually it doesn't become public.

These are the statement that I take issue with clearly you speak as though you know these things to be fact.

We all could go on all day about how this player probably requested this or that but you know jack for sure thats my whole point and having discussion about what players requested or didn't request to be traded is kinda of ridiculous in the end it gives no one anymore clue as to how these Kobe Lakers situation will play out.

[Edited by - bitty41 on 06-18-2007 7:48 PM]

Posted by kam77:

RemBee, if you were Jerry Buss or Mitch Kupchak.. why would you trade Kobe? How does it help to move him, especially when you don't have to?

Picture this... Kobe is still going to give 100% on the court or else his reputation takes a major hit... so if he dogs it, public opinion will swing to the Lakers.

So what does Buss/Kupchak have to lose by calling Kobe's bluff?

If i'm buss, i don't feel forced to do anything. Especially now when my guy is mad at me and bad-mouthing the direction. But at least give my GM a year or two to change Kobe's mind about the trade.

Listen, Sprewell choked his coach and repaired his image in 1 year... Vince and T-mac admitted to dogging it in toronto and orlando to get out and not many (outside myself) seem to find that much fault with what they did. In other words, people tend to forget when you produce. People will rationalize Kobe's behavior, they will say the lakers lied to him, that they forced him to stay in a situation after he was misled, believe me, kobe's camp will spin this and probably win! If he wants to leave this will be uglier for the lakers than it will be for kobe....

Who's arguing that Kobe won't get traded at all??? Most people believe it's very possible if not likely. What people are arguing is whether or not the Knicks are in position to trade for him. Most people realize that the Knicks don't have much more than role players to offer.

If Kobe demands a trade to New York there is a real good chance that it happens. Period.

That's just false. Period.

Apparently if Kobe demands a trade to NY, the Lakers are going to have to drop their pants, bend over and ask Isiah to give them what he thinks is fair for Kobe.

Or they can tell Kobe that the Knicks have nothing that they want and they'd rather let him and his $24M a year salary walk in 2 years so if he wants out in the next 2 years he better give them some other options.

Some of you would make unbelievably bad negotiators.

Posted by islesfan:

Who's arguing that Kobe won't get traded at all??? Most people believe it's very possible if not likely. What people are arguing is whether or not the Knicks are in position to trade for him. Most people realize that the Knicks don't have much more than role players to offer.

If Kobe demands a trade to New York there is a real good chance that it happens. Period.

That's just false. Period.

Apparently if Kobe demands a trade to NY, the Lakers are going to have to drop their pants, bend over and ask Isiah to give them what he thinks is fair for Kobe.

Or they can tell Kobe that the Knicks have nothing that they want and they'd rather let him and his $24M a year salary walk in 2 years so if he wants out in the next 2 years he better give them some other options.

Some of you would make unbelievably bad negotiators.

Isles it's like they've ignored all the Bulls, Phx, Mavs trade scenarios from the likes. Well Bucher about an hour or so ago said Dallas, Phx, and Bulls are the frontrunners and Kobe remaining in L.A. won't happen.