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James is going to remain a starter! (NYPost)
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holfresh
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2/4/2007  10:24 PM
Posted by fishmike:

so its where you set up? So when Ewing took all those jumpers he wasnt playing center anymore? Maybe when QRich posts smaller guards he's moved to center? This is just silly

Believe what you want... but Queenie is right, and this will last 3 minutes into the Clipper game when SnacksI or SnacksII has to guard Brand.

Also we just won, so our guys will go back to loaf mode until we lose horribly again.

Please stop taking the argument elsewhere, Curry played 40 mins, Snacks played 15 and Frye 26...
Frye didn't get much burn the second half..When did he play center...
AUTOADVERT
holfresh
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2/4/2007  10:47 PM

You know, instead of us celebrating the fact the we have two good young players vying for the PF spot..Both complimenting each other's game...here I am trying to defend one guy being railroaded out of town, when the other isn't the answer at the position...
oohah
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2/4/2007  11:04 PM
Posted by Ira:
Posted by oohah:
Posted by Anji:

So that means when Curry was out with fouls and Jerome james was on the bench, Frye was still playing Power Forward in Orlando???? In the second half.

We can call it whatever we like, but he was setting up 15-20 feet from the basket. When Curry leaves the game Frye does not automatically become a center, he's still the same player. He might get a couple more low post opportunities, but I don't think that makes him a center.

oohah

Dave Cowens often set up 15-20 ft from the basket. So did Bill Laimbeer. Even Patrick Ewing set up from about 15 ft sometimes.

None of those guys were traditional centers offensively. Both Riley and Van Gundy were always saying that they wanted Ewing's head "under the rim" more. Most of Ewing's offense started with his back to the basket and ended with shots from within ten feet.

It's guys like Laimbeer, Brad Miller etc. who have caused the term "True Center" to become part of basketball jargon.

Back to Frye, if the majority of guy's offensive game begins with facing the basket 15-20 feet away, faking and taking jumpers off of a dribble, he ain't a center. Not every 7 footer is a center anymore.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
djsunyc
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2/4/2007  11:11 PM
i'm sorry but this discussion is going in circles.

ultimately, this is the most important thing to take from this roster change...isiah no longer believes that frye + curry can start together. that's a MAJOR admission.
oohah
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2/4/2007  11:12 PM
It's all in the name. A "center" plays in the middle. Today's NBA has changed that to a certain degree, but "True Centers" tend to play close to the basket, and 7 footers who can shoot and do other things sometimes play the center on defense.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
djsunyc
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2/4/2007  11:16 PM
Posted by oohah:

It's all in the name. A "center" plays in the middle. Today's NBA has changed that to a certain degree, but "True Centers" tend to play close to the basket, and 7 footers who can shoot and do other things sometimes play the center on defense.

oohah

frye guards brand and he drops 18 points in a quarter. frye guards kaman and he can probably stay out on the court alot longer. frye, on defense, can't stick most pf's in the league. that's why many say he's a center b/c he'd stay out of foul trouble and he'd be on the court longer. this has nothing to do with offense b/c like you said, centers do many different things in today's nba. but defensively, the guy gets toasted by opposing pf's. he needs to guard centers.
oohah
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2/4/2007  11:16 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

i'm sorry but this discussion is going in circles.

ultimately, this is the most important thing to take from this roster change...isiah no longer believes that frye + curry can start together. that's a MAJOR admission.

That is big leap to make from one lineup change made for a specific reason. If Frye is still coming off the bench for the next 5 to 10 games, I'll agree that IT has changed his mind. (I don't know about this "admission" stuff, who is he admitting to?)

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
oohah
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2/4/2007  11:20 PM
frye guards brand and he drops 18 points in a quarter. frye guards kaman and he can probably stay out on the court alot longer. frye, on defense, can't stick most pf's in the league. that's why many say he's a center b/c he'd stay out of foul trouble and he'd be on the court longer. this has nothing to do with offense b/c like you said, centers do many different things in today's nba. but defensively, the guy gets toasted by opposing pf's. he needs to guard centers.

Maybe you are right, but Brand is a bad example to use. He is a top 5 player, he uses everybody up.

If Frye guards Kaman, then we put Curry on Brand? And Brand goes for 36 in the first quarter instead!?!?!

Frye has poor man-to-man D, but I don't think it will be much better on centers if at all better. He will probably get beat up. He just needs to learn how to play D better, and rehabilitate his rep with the officials. Lee has the same problem, he is not fast enough to guard small forwards, but he is a little light to guard PF's.

Nobody's perfect!

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 04-02-2007 11:21 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
djsunyc
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2/4/2007  11:26 PM
i think if we made frye the center and developed him as one, and gave him 20 touches a night, we would be better off than with eddy playing center. but that's not going to happen as long as isiah is here.
nixluva
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2/4/2007  11:27 PM
Can we at least admit that Frye is a developing player in his 2nd year in the league? He's still trying to find his niche. He has an NBA skill, shooting and he has NBA size. The guy can score and he would score more if they actually ran more stuff for him. There's nothing wrong with Frye. He's who he is. Not a great rebounder, but good enough. Not a great defender or shotblocker, but he has his moments. All together we have a bunch of bigs that have flaws, but also have enough size and NBA skills to compete. Who cares if Frye is a C or PF? WHo cares if Lee starts or not. The thing is these guys all get to contribute and the more they play with each other and the more they develop individually as players the better this team will be.

Isiah got good results out of the "Karate James" experiment and I don't fault him for trying it again. He's definitely a more physical defender and a more imposing presence inside. More and more Isiah has this team playing a smash mouth style of ball. To start the year he was going with the pretty slick stuff and wanted to be like the Suns, but not anymore. Now he's pounding teams inside relentlessly. I LIKE IT! I was all for the motion offense stuff, but this style is just fine as long as we start winning more games. I've been remarking all year to my sons how big the Knicks really are and that no one seems to talk about that. Well now Isiah is going to that strength and we'll see how it works.
djsunyc
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2/4/2007  11:30 PM
btw, this starting of jerome james is such a short sighted move...again, like isles said before, if lb did this, there would be many pissed off people here. i thought we were rebuilding. why in the hell is jerome cutting into channing and david's minutes?
Erniecat
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2/4/2007  11:51 PM
Posted by BigC:
Posted by holfresh:


It really doesn't matter where the guy plays as long as he is effective where ever the coach ask him to play...The Lee faithful wants him traded so Lee can inherit the position all to himself...Does that make the team better, probably not...Getting rid of Frye would only make the Knicks need a new PF or center or whatever you want to call him...

Good points. I feel Frye has been jerked this season by Isiah, but let's see how Frye finishes this season.

Personally I think Isiah is going to say to Dolan look at the great job that I am doing. I have Curry who was an allstar candidate, and Lee who is up there for 6 man of the year.

Yeah, then if Dolan had any brains he would reply: "OK, then why does our record still suck?"

That is the fundamental problem with this team: The whole is not equal to the sum of the parts. Of course, that is far too complicated a thought for Dolan to digest.
Anji
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2/4/2007  11:58 PM
Well that's not a fair slant at all. I remember saying why don't Frye and Lee play when LB was here. I don't think we were arguing when David Lee should get his 30 minutes and Frye get his 26 minutes last year. I don't remember thinking too much of, "who should play with Curry the 35 minutes he is on the floor" and it was more of, "why isn't Curry on the floor". No reason to drag LB into this year when it's too different situations.

I personally hope Jerome is a buffer to us going to David Lee at the 4. I don't know why, but Isiah believes Frye is really mentally weak for some reason. I don't think he is best used with curry, but I have never called Frye soft because I don't think he is soft. Isaih really acts like he is though.
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
alexs
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Kenya
2/5/2007  5:12 AM
btw, this starting of jerome james is such a short sighted move...again, like isles said before, if lb did this, there would be many pissed off people here. i thought we were rebuilding. why in the hell is jerome cutting into channing and david's minutes?

This is typical what you get with one-year mandates of the coach. He'll do anything to try to get some results and easily forget the longer-term needs. You cannot be rebuilding with a one-year mandate, that's completely contradictory, people overlook this constantly but a one-year manger can't be brought to rebuild.
fishmike
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2/5/2007  7:37 AM
Posted by nixluva:

Can we at least admit that Frye is a developing player in his 2nd year in the league? He's still trying to find his niche. He has an NBA skill, shooting and he has NBA size. The guy can score and he would score more if they actually ran more stuff for him. There's nothing wrong with Frye. He's who he is. Not a great rebounder, but good enough. Not a great defender or shotblocker, but he has his moments. All together we have a bunch of bigs that have flaws, but also have enough size and NBA skills to compete. Who cares if Frye is a C or PF? WHo cares if Lee starts or not. The thing is these guys all get to contribute and the more they play with each other and the more they develop individually as players the better this team will be.

Isiah got good results out of the "Karate James" experiment and I don't fault him for trying it again. He's definitely a more physical defender and a more imposing presence inside. More and more Isiah has this team playing a smash mouth style of ball. To start the year he was going with the pretty slick stuff and wanted to be like the Suns, but not anymore. Now he's pounding teams inside relentlessly. I LIKE IT! I was all for the motion offense stuff, but this style is just fine as long as we start winning more games. I've been remarking all year to my sons how big the Knicks really are and that no one seems to talk about that. Well now Isiah is going to that strength and we'll see how it works.
he's not developing, he's regressing

DJ nailed it. What are we doing here? Why is JJ taking Frye and Lee's minutes?

LOL.. maybe we are showcasing Big Snacks in case there's a team that NEEDS a center.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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2/5/2007  7:40 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

i think if we made frye the center and developed him as one, and gave him 20 touches a night, we would be better off than with eddy playing center.
That's why I'd love to make Frye the center with Lee the PF and trade Eddy while his value is the highest it's ever been. You might get a pick somewhere in the lottery for him and get a real two-way player. You're right that Curry's here to stay and to start as long as Isiah's here, though.



[Edited by - bonn1997 on 02-05-2007 07:41 AM]
Solace
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2/5/2007  8:06 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by djsunyc:

i think if we made frye the center and developed him as one, and gave him 20 touches a night, we would be better off than with eddy playing center.
That's why I'd love to make Frye the center with Lee the PF and trade Eddy while his value is the highest it's ever been. You might get a pick somewhere in the lottery for him and get a real two-way player. You're right that Curry's here to stay and to start as long as Isiah's here, though.

That would be nice. I'm all for trading Eddy, but I don't think Frye at center is the answer either. If we want to climb out of mediocrity, we need a nice young center who plays on both sides of the ball. Obviously, Bynum, Oden, etc... fit the bill, but how do we get any of these guys?
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Bonn1997
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2/5/2007  9:33 AM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by djsunyc:

i think if we made frye the center and developed him as one, and gave him 20 touches a night, we would be better off than with eddy playing center.
That's why I'd love to make Frye the center with Lee the PF and trade Eddy while his value is the highest it's ever been. You might get a pick somewhere in the lottery for him and get a real two-way player. You're right that Curry's here to stay and to start as long as Isiah's here, though.

That would be nice. I'm all for trading Eddy, but I don't think Frye at center is the answer either. If we want to climb out of mediocrity, we need a nice young center who plays on both sides of the ball. Obviously, Bynum, Oden, etc... fit the bill, but how do we get any of these guys?
Oh I don't think it's a long-term solution either. What I really want is to tear it down and get as many expiring contracts and draft picks as possible for what we have. I know that won't happen, though.
holfresh
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2/5/2007  1:34 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

i'm sorry but this discussion is going in circles.

ultimately, this is the most important thing to take from this roster change...isiah no longer believes that frye + curry can start together. that's a MAJOR admission.

Do you think that Isiah going to Big Snacks and not Lee a MAJOR admission as well...
holfresh
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2/5/2007  1:36 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by nixluva:

Can we at least admit that Frye is a developing player in his 2nd year in the league? He's still trying to find his niche. He has an NBA skill, shooting and he has NBA size. The guy can score and he would score more if they actually ran more stuff for him. There's nothing wrong with Frye. He's who he is. Not a great rebounder, but good enough. Not a great defender or shotblocker, but he has his moments. All together we have a bunch of bigs that have flaws, but also have enough size and NBA skills to compete. Who cares if Frye is a C or PF? WHo cares if Lee starts or not. The thing is these guys all get to contribute and the more they play with each other and the more they develop individually as players the better this team will be.

Isiah got good results out of the "Karate James" experiment and I don't fault him for trying it again. He's definitely a more physical defender and a more imposing presence inside. More and more Isiah has this team playing a smash mouth style of ball. To start the year he was going with the pretty slick stuff and wanted to be like the Suns, but not anymore. Now he's pounding teams inside relentlessly. I LIKE IT! I was all for the motion offense stuff, but this style is just fine as long as we start winning more games. I've been remarking all year to my sons how big the Knicks really are and that no one seems to talk about that. Well now Isiah is going to that strength and we'll see how it works.
he's not developing, he's regressing

DJ nailed it. What are we doing here? Why is JJ taking Frye and Lee's minutes?

LOL.. maybe we are showcasing Big Snacks in case there's a team that NEEDS a center.

Or maybe Isiah wants some one on the front line who plays defense...

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