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we have to many stupid basketball players
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simrud
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1/25/2007  3:38 PM
BRIGGS you should have used a black player as a smart example, than again, IT supporters would probably attack you on some other basis.

I bet if the argument was went something like, Rose and Q are our only smart players, carefully avoiding Lee, this would have been received much better.

Either way, you don't need more than a couple "smart" players, as long as they are the leaders of the team. Unfortunately for us, our smart player are either washed up (Rose), or too injury prone and at odds with the supposed leaders (Q). And Lee is just a young player, he can't really be the leader of the team. Oh, and just to be safe, Lee is not smarter than Marbury.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
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newyorknewyork
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1/25/2007  3:45 PM
Im not going to go as far to say we have STUPID basketball players. But I do agree that we don't have players with high basketball IQ.

Watching them play there isn't many times that we do a smart play. We do come up with plays that anyone who can play basketball can do. But we don't make the smart decisions where we can be like wow.

Like I was saying in that damn the suns play good basketball post. Shawn Marion missed a shot the ball bounced to Boris Diaw. And as soon as he saw Diaw get the rebound. Instead of standing by the 3pt line. He cut to the basket to get a no look pass from Diaw. Thats smart basketball as Diaw was doubled by 2 players who both took there attention off of Marion. The smart thing about it was that he cut so quick as soon as the ball bounced to Diaw that the defense had absolutly no time to recover. It was more than just a hustle play. It was a team that new how to play good basketball.
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islesfan
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1/25/2007  3:48 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by islesfan:

The Cardinals have a good young QB, a good RB and 3 very WR's. If they can develop a good defense and hire a good coach, they can be a very good team soon.

it's pretty hilarious how you can equate a completely unproven talent like Matt Leinert as a "good young QB" & yet can't say the same about Curry... & if Leinert has some good supporting pieces around him, then what do you think D Lee & Q Rich are? the Cardinals can be a very good team soon, but the Knicks can't? why's that? what leads you to believe the Cardinals will suddenly become this legitimate contending team when almost their entire history suggest otherwise, & yet you can't envision anything from the Knicks in the coming years?

the answer = your hate for Isiah

Leinart had a very good rookie year. He's not a 6th year pro like Curry.

I said the Cardinals can be a good team if they can develop a good defense and hire a good coach to go along with their good young QB and 3 All Pro skill players on offense.

Don't you think that's slightly more than what the Knicks have at the moment?

Seriously man, give it up. My feelings toward Isiah have nothing to do with this.

D Lee and Q Rich aren't All Pro's like Edge, Fitzgerald and Boldin.

Edge used to be an All pro, but not this year... & Fitzgerald won't be an All pro this year either... those guys played about as supportive a role on their teams as D Lee does for this team... Boldin is their star player... as for Leinert, he had seasoning playing 4 years against division 1-A competition before he came to the NFL whereas Curry had to make the jump straight from HS to the NBA.

anyway, i'm not trying to compare the 2 teams here... that's not the point... the point is you're able to see a light at the end of the tunnel for a quintessential underachieving team like the Cardinals, but can never admit to seeing anything positive in the future for the team you supposedly root for.

Light at the end of the tunnel? I think finding a good coach and building a good defense is a lot and puts them a lot further from the light than you think. But to compare these 2 teams, which is what you did, you'd have to acknowledge that having a good young QB, a 1100 yd RB and 2 All Pro receivers (Fitzgerald is 23 and had a monster year in 05 before missing 3 games this season) they have a very good base. Plus they're going to actually benefit from their below average season by drafting 5th overall.

They have a lot more positives moving forward than the Knicks do. I've been complimentary towards Lee, Curry's post game, Q, Balkman's hustle amongst other things. You need to pay more attention.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TMS
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1/25/2007  3:52 PM
no, actually i didn't compare the 2 teams... i was comparing your differing reactions to those 2 teams... it's different... & i never said you never paid compliments to those players... i said your general view of this team is that there is no future w/this current collection of talent... where am i off base on this & where haven't i been paying attention? feel free to set me straight on that cuz i don't see where i was painting your opinions inaccurately here.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TrueBlue
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1/25/2007  4:03 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by TMS:

since when is C the weakest position in basketball? you can equate the C position to the offensive line in football... the QB might be the PG of the team, but w/o a good C, you're not going anywhere.

I don't think that's what he meant. I think he meant the center position is the position with the least talent in the NBA, overall, so there's less competition than other positions. In other words, if Curry could get it together, he'd give us an unbelievably huge advantage. Do you disagree?

BINGO!
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
kam77
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1/25/2007  5:38 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by kam77:

"a troll is someone who posts in a thread intentionally to berate another poster "

And you're doing it. Not me. I said the title was ironic. Can you argue that? NO i don't think so. Stop being so sensitive punched in the eye again.

Let's just drop it, then. I apologize if I was offensive. I took your initial post as being offensive towards Briggs, who I believe has a medical condition which sometimes makes it difficult to type -- so it'd be nice if people would cut him a little slack. But I understand if you feel I misinterpreted your post altogether. My apologies.


Solace, truce. I didn't realize you were being a stand-up guy there for Briggs. But I disagree with calling our guys stupid.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
4949
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1/25/2007  5:40 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

the IQ is very low---except for Lee--most of these guys don't know how to play basketball--Curry is the only pleasant surprise--he doesnt have to think he just has to get underneath the basket strong an dunk--that is why he is not a shaq or for that facta bynum he doesnt pass the rebounds he gets fall to him he doesnt block shots unless they are coming off the backboard---but a lot is forgiven because he can go 30 points 55%++++ how about the other day that was great 1 rebound and it fell to him with like 10 seconds left?

ever see the looks on these guys faces?
frye? 24 years old 4 years of college--looks like he is scared 1/2 the time hes out there
jefferies--the player still hasnt figured out how to make a lay up at 6-11

nate--i love nate but hes an out of control time bomb who needs some basketball 101
jc---dumb 90% of the game
q rich---he's just happy hes got that headband look going and 8 large rolling in
Marbury--great talent tough guy dumb basketball player

balkman?
jerome james?

this is not something that you fix --it is what it is.



this 5+ year nightmare isnt getting fixed anytime soon. I HOPE that Dolan DOES NOT hand over any more $$$ to IT----the problem is IT IS smart and maipulative just enough to get his next big payday after that he is jerome james--he could care less:(




[Edited by - BRIGGS on 01-25-2007 01:02 AM]

The bad thing about something like that is, it reflects the coaching staff.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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1/25/2007  5:43 PM
Posted by VDesai:

I think Steph has a tremendous bball IQ, but has an agenda about how he wants to play. But the guy is a natural.

Well then I'll argue that he needs an 'all around' basketball IQ. 'All about starbury' isn't going to cut it.
I'll never trust this' team again.
kam77
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1/25/2007  5:43 PM
David Genius Lee has his brain fart moments too. Are we ignoring those because we assume he is smart? I recall recently a game where he turned the ball over twice in a row on travelling calls. At the end of the Indiana game, J'O'neal twice took David Lees lunch on the way to the hole. Int he last minute of that game, Dave was a seive.

Be fair guys. Malik, Quentin, Kelvin Cato, Reynaldo Balkman, Channing Frye... these guys all strike me as being above average with bball iq, its not just the favorite son DLee.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
4949
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1/25/2007  5:45 PM
I wonder what David Lee would say , to clear up this argument?
I'll never trust this' team again.
TMS
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1/25/2007  6:04 PM
Posted by kam77:

Be fair guys. Malik, Quentin, Kelvin Cato, Reynaldo Balkman, Channing Frye... these guys all strike me as being above average with bball iq, its not just the favorite son DLee.

w/the exception of Frye, i would have to agree w/you... i think Frye's a little below average (or maybe it's just that he's a clumsy oaf w/no balls or defensive instincts... his shooting touch is about all i can say that's above average for a young PF his size at this point... i think he's got a lot of talent, but he doesn't seem to pick things up half as quickly as someone like Lee does for example... & he doesn't seem to know where his teammates are on the floor whereas a guy like D Lee usually seems to know where his teammates are & what to do w/the ball when he gets it.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Solace
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1/25/2007  6:07 PM
Posted by 4949:

I wonder what David Lee would say , to clear up this argument?

He probably would just grin and smile. A true show of intelligence.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
4949
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1/25/2007  6:11 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by 4949:

I wonder what David Lee would say , to clear up this argument?

He probably would just grin and smile. A true show of intelligence.

Exactly! And probably even defend everyones intelligence, no matter what anyone thinks.
I'll never trust this' team again.
kam77
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1/25/2007  6:18 PM
TMS

maybe you're right about Frye. tho Maybe he's misused as a PF.
it's funny but Channing, Jamal, Eddy Curry, all are well-spoken guys who seem very articulate and intelligent for jocks. but all are perceived as low bball iq. whats the reason for that?
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
TMS
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1/25/2007  6:22 PM
in Jamal & Eddy's cases i think it has 100% to do w/their lack of consistent coaching over their careers... they've had to learn a new coach's system just about every year they've played organized basketball

in Frye's case, i really don't know... he learned under a great college coach at ARI, so you can't use the coaching excuse... he seemed to be progressing well early on last season as a rookie, then tailed off dramatically & this year he's regressed even further.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bonn1997
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1/25/2007  6:37 PM
Posted by TMS:

in Jamal & Eddy's cases i think it has 100% to do w/their lack of consistent coaching over their careers... they've had to learn a new coach's system just about every year they've played organized basketball

in Frye's case, i really don't know... he learned under a great college coach at ARI, so you can't use the coaching excuse... he seemed to be progressing well early on last season as a rookie, then tailed off dramatically & this year he's regressed even further.
Maybe coaching has a little to do with it, but I'm awfully skeptical when a player never picks things up after 6 or 7 years in the NBA. There are so many basic things that these guys don't do that they must have been told even in high school to do.
TMS
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1/25/2007  6:41 PM
in HS? dude, these kids are usually dumped the ball & told to go & score at that level... when you're a superstar player in your region of schools, how much coaching does it really take to just hand you the ball & let you do your thing? on a team where there aren't any superstar kids, i can see coaching playing a bigger factor, but a kid like Jamal or Curry were probably hardly ever coached at that level...

maybe i'm way off base on this... but i don't think i am.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bonn1997
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1/25/2007  7:08 PM
Then forget high school and focus on the 6 or 7 years in the NBA. I don't buy it when people come up with external reasons for veterans' poor decision making.
misterearl
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1/25/2007  7:20 PM
>>in Frye's case, i really don't know... he learned under a great college coach at ARI, so you can't use the coaching excuse... he seemed to be progressing well early on last season as a rookie, then tailed off dramatically & this year he's regressed even further.

TMS - Are we confusing "intelligence" with production?

How does one measure Frye's basketball IQ?
once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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1/25/2007  7:25 PM
... and Briggs, what measure of intelligence makes David Lee smarter than all of his teammates?
once a knick always a knick
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we have to many stupid basketball players
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