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It's shocking how Isiah isn't gone at this point...
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Solace
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1/16/2007  5:59 PM
Posted by TMS:
Then you see Andrew Bynum, a guy who plays at the same position and is going to be better than both Curry and Frye.

that's a bold prediction to make after watching Curry have some of the monster games he's had over his career & the much improved play he's shown this year.

I don't think it's a bold prediction. Bynum has shown more flashes during his first few months than Curry showed during his first few years. He also has better fundamentals. I could see Curry capping out at 22 pts, 8 rebs and 1 block in his best season (not hating), while I could see Bynum capping out at 20 pts, 11 rebs and 3 blocks. He's just a beast.

[Edited by - Solace on Jan 16 2007 5:59 PM]
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
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Bonn1997
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1/16/2007  6:00 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

misterearl: This is why I think Isiah is overrated as a drafter. I don't think he's bad at it to start off. He's solid. However, the problem has been this while he's been here. He's picked a couple of nice guys to have, but he picked them based on short term need. When he picked Frye, he flat out said he did it b/c he can contribute right away. Then you see Andrew Bynum, a guy who plays at the same position and is going to be better than both Curry and Frye. He'd be ready in 3 years probably, which goes by so fast, and he'd be ready to make an impact. Why couldn't we be patient and just take Bynum? It's not like our record is good anyway.
I agree that Bynum's gonna be better than Curry and Frye. At age 19, he's already way ahead of Curry in all phases of the game except scoring actually. And he's at almost the same level Curry was at the same age as far as scoring goes. Bynum has size, strength, speed, AND great conditioning. Briggs may have been obsessive last year but was 100% right on this guy.
islesfan
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1/16/2007  6:04 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by TMS:
Then you see Andrew Bynum, a guy who plays at the same position and is going to be better than both Curry and Frye.

that's a bold prediction to make after watching Curry have some of the monster games he's had over his career & the much improved play he's shown this year.

I don't think it's a bold prediction. Bynum has shown more flashes during his first few months than Curry showed during his first few years. He also has better fundamentals. I could see Curry capping out at 22 pts, 8 rebs and 1 block in his best season (not hating), while I could see Bynum capping out at 20 pts, 11 rebs and 3 blocks. He's just a beast.

[Edited by - Solace on Jan 16 2007 5:59 PM]

Agreed. That's not bold at all. Bynum is already better defensively than either Curry or Frye. He's a much better rebounder already. Offensively he needs time to learn and grow. Give him the same time that Curry has had in the league and he'll be a much better and more complete player than either Curry or Frye.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
misterearl
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1/16/2007  8:13 PM
Isles - the beatles had it right

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money can't buy me love"

Enjoy The Ride
once a knick always a knick
TMS
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1/16/2007  8:35 PM
Curry's already posted a few 30 pt games over the course of his career as well as multiple 20 & 10 type games as well... how anyone can possibly say from any position of authority that Bynum has shown more in his short NBA career than Curry has up to this point is beyond me... if you want to say that at a comparable age, Bynum looks like he's got more polished skills than Curry did at a comparable age, that's a different story & i can buy into something like this.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
holfresh
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1/16/2007  8:40 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Solace:
Posted by TMS:
Then you see Andrew Bynum, a guy who plays at the same position and is going to be better than both Curry and Frye.

that's a bold prediction to make after watching Curry have some of the monster games he's had over his career & the much improved play he's shown this year.

I don't think it's a bold prediction. Bynum has shown more flashes during his first few months than Curry showed during his first few years. He also has better fundamentals. I could see Curry capping out at 22 pts, 8 rebs and 1 block in his best season (not hating), while I could see Bynum capping out at 20 pts, 11 rebs and 3 blocks. He's just a beast.

[Edited by - Solace on Jan 16 2007 5:59 PM]

Agreed. That's not bold at all. Bynum is already better defensively than either Curry or Frye. He's a much better rebounder already. Offensively he needs time to learn and grow. Give him the same time that Curry has had in the league and he'll be a much better and more complete player than either Curry or Frye.

How does Bynum second year numbers compare to Curry second year and why does that show you he will be much better than Curry...Curry showed the natural ability to score from day one...Bynum lock on developing into a stud is pure fantasy...Curry is on the verge of all star status...Can you really say Bynum will get there??... Much better rebounder???..He rebounds at a rate 1.5 better than Curry in his second year...
Bonn1997
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1/16/2007  8:53 PM
He rebounds at a rate 1.5 better than Curry in his second year
How'd you get that? Are you misusing the term "rate"? For rate, I calculate 14.3 per 48 min for Bynum and 10.8 per 48 min at age 19 for Curry. (Curry's rate at age 24, sadly, is even worse: 10.3 per 48 min.)

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 01-16-2007 8:54 PM]
holfresh
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1/16/2007  9:01 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
He rebounds at a rate 1.5 better than Curry in his second year
How'd you get that? Are you misusing the term "rate"? For rate, I calculate 14.3 per 48 min for Bynum and 10.8 per 48 min at age 19 for Curry. (Curry's rate at age 24, sadly, is even worse: 10.3 per 48 min.)

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 01-16-2007 8:54 PM]

Yeah I did misuse the term...But there is no need to extrapolate they both played at 19 mins per game their second year...Bynum 5.8 reb to Curry's 4.3...in 40 mins that make Bynum up 3 rebs better per game...Does that difference make up for his offense?..And how is that much better?...Curry has made it as a player..he is almost there...What's the guarantee behind Bynum??
Solace
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1/16/2007  9:10 PM
Per 40 minutes in their second years (granted Bynum's is incomplete):

Bynum - 16.2 pts, 11.8 rebs, 2.2 asts, 3.2 blk, 0.2 stl, 57% FG, 73% FT
Curry - 21. pts, 8.8 rebs, 1 ast, 1.6 blk, 0.4 stl, 58.5% FG, 62% FT

It's clear that Curry has the offensive edge, but Bynum is WAY better defensively, and Bynum also has a good offensive game, although not as good as Curry's. Bynum is definitely a more well rounded player. Curry is one-dimensional.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
djsunyc
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1/16/2007  9:14 PM
i think at this stage in their careers, people were talking about eddy becoming a very good offensive player and were excited about him.

and the same goes for bynum as lakers fans are excited about the potential he's displaying.

there is a bit of a difference tho - curry got minutes and played on a young rebuilding squad that could live with his mistakes while he's on the court.

bynum can't get away or play through them as much b/c the lakers are trying to win at the same time. they are a playoff team and are looking to advance.

so at 19, bynum is showing good signs AND contributing to a winning situation.
curry was learning the game and given more chances on that bulls team.

we'll see where bynum is in 3-4 more years. he's a definite project but one that MAY reap better long term rewards than eddy as he is experiencing some quality, winning basketball at this age.
holfresh
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1/16/2007  9:32 PM
While DJ's opinion is noted and I do agree to some extent...Bynum numbers are not guaranteed..Curry looks like the real deal now..Nothing guarantees Bynum will be good in 3 or 4 years..Pushing out those numbers over 40 mins doesn't mean he is better..It only means it looks better mathematically...Kwame Brown had the same numbers as Byrun did in his second year..How do we know that Bynum doesn't take Brown route..Why is it such a lock that Bynum will be good??



[Edited by - holfresh on 01-16-2007 9:34 PM]
Solace
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1/16/2007  9:35 PM
Posted by holfresh:

While DJ's opinion is noted and I do agree to some extent...Bynum numbers are not guaranteed..Curry looks like the real deal now..Nothing guarantees Bynum will be good in 3 or 4 years..Pushing out those numbers over 40 mins doesn't mean he is better..It only means it looks better mathematically...Kwame Brown had the same numbers as Byrun did in his second year..How do we know that Bynum doesn't take Brown route..Why is it such a lock that Bynum will be good??

There's no guarantees, but for the record, Bynum's numbers are definitely better than Kwame's were at that age.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
holfresh
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1/16/2007  9:38 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by holfresh:

While DJ's opinion is noted and I do agree to some extent...Bynum numbers are not guaranteed..Curry looks like the real deal now..Nothing guarantees Bynum will be good in 3 or 4 years..Pushing out those numbers over 40 mins doesn't mean he is better..It only means it looks better mathematically...Kwame Brown had the same numbers as Byrun did in his second year..How do we know that Bynum doesn't take Brown route..Why is it such a lock that Bynum will be good??

There's no guarantees, but for the record, Bynum's numbers are definitely better than Kwame's were at that age.

By what 0.6 scoring and 0.3 rebonding in 2 plus mins???..You call that definitely better..
djsunyc
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1/16/2007  9:40 PM
Posted by holfresh:

While DJ's opinion is noted and I do agree to some extent...Bynum numbers are not guaranteed..Curry looks like the real deal now..Nothing guarantees Bynum will be good in 3 or 4 years..Pushing out those numbers over 40 mins doesn't mean he is better..It only means it looks better mathematically...Kwame Brown had the same numbers as Byrun did in his second year..How do we know that Bynum doesn't take Brown route..Why is it such a lock that Bynum will be good??



[Edited by - holfresh on 01-16-2007 9:34 PM]

but you can say that about anybody. what's the guarantee lebron was going to be better than marbury when he didn't play 1 professional game yet?

there's never a guarantee but you have to take into account where you are as a team, and where you want to go.

if we drafted bynum two drafts ago, then our team would look completely different. and we'll never know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

but i ask this, if isiah and crew get credit for developing curry, then why couldn't he do the same with bynum and make him a respectable scorer IN ADDITION to his defense, rebounding, and shot blocking (which is better than curry right now)?
Bonn1997
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1/16/2007  9:42 PM
The only thing Curry's more of a gaurantee than Bynum at 19 is to be a defensive liability. Bynum's already ahead of Curry at 24 in every aspect of the game except low-post scoring.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 01-16-2007 9:42 PM]
Bonn1997
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1/16/2007  9:44 PM
Posted by Solace:

Per 40 minutes in their second years (granted Bynum's is incomplete):

Bynum - 16.2 pts, 11.8 rebs, 2.2 asts, 3.2 blk, 0.2 stl, 57% FG, 73% FT
Curry - 21. pts, 8.8 rebs, 1 ast, 1.6 blk, 0.4 stl, 58.5% FG, 62% FT

It's clear that Curry has the offensive edge, but Bynum is WAY better defensively, and Bynum also has a good offensive game, although not as good as Curry's. Bynum is definitely a more well rounded player. Curry is one-dimensional.
I bet the 4.8 scoring differential would be a lot smaller (maybe even) if Bynum wasn't sharing the ball with Kobe.

islesfan
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1/16/2007  9:55 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Bonn1997:
He rebounds at a rate 1.5 better than Curry in his second year
How'd you get that? Are you misusing the term "rate"? For rate, I calculate 14.3 per 48 min for Bynum and 10.8 per 48 min at age 19 for Curry. (Curry's rate at age 24, sadly, is even worse: 10.3 per 48 min.)

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 01-16-2007 8:54 PM]

Yeah I did misuse the term...But there is no need to extrapolate they both played at 19 mins per game their second year...Bynum 5.8 reb to Curry's 4.3...in 40 mins that make Bynum up 3 rebs better per game...Does that difference make up for his offense?..And how is that much better?...Curry has made it as a player..he is almost there...What's the guarantee behind Bynum??

Would you trade Curry for Oden straight up?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Solace
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1/16/2007  10:00 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Solace:
Posted by holfresh:

While DJ's opinion is noted and I do agree to some extent...Bynum numbers are not guaranteed..Curry looks like the real deal now..Nothing guarantees Bynum will be good in 3 or 4 years..Pushing out those numbers over 40 mins doesn't mean he is better..It only means it looks better mathematically...Kwame Brown had the same numbers as Byrun did in his second year..How do we know that Bynum doesn't take Brown route..Why is it such a lock that Bynum will be good??

There's no guarantees, but for the record, Bynum's numbers are definitely better than Kwame's were at that age.

By what 0.6 scoring and 0.3 rebonding in 2 plus mins???..You call that definitely better..

This is the problem. You name two stats, when there's a multitude of others to compare. If you want stats, how about 57% FG to 46%? Terrible for a center. Kwame also got more minutes in his second year. If we figure out the ratios, Bynum beats Kwame in almost every stat.

Your point that there's no guarantees at this stage is still true, but Bynum is looking like a future stud. You can't say that about Kwame, who one month into his first season was labeled a bust. Lowest point total ever for a #1 pick, etc.... etc...
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
holfresh
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1/16/2007  10:08 PM
Bynum was too much of a long term project/gamble for the Knicks pull the trigger on...We needed help a lot sooner than Bynum would have provided it if he becomes good...Is Bynum's talent that good that we could have waited 4 to 5 years or maybe 6 to develop, I really not sure...A guy like Frye can contribute in 2 to 3 years right when everyone else is rounding into form..I'm not sure of the LB hire time table with respect to the draft, but how do you draft a Bynum for a coach like LB knowing LB might be wearing out his welcome in about three years...

One more point...Knicks didn't have the luxury of fronline line talent(meaning starting players) to have a guy like Bynum sit and develop for a few years..Bynum works for LA because Kobe and Odum can carry that ball club to respectability until Bynum gets up to speed..The Knicks didn't have that luxury...Bynum is a nice luxury for a team who can afford it..Knicks isn't one of them...
holfresh
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1/16/2007  10:19 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Bonn1997:
He rebounds at a rate 1.5 better than Curry in his second year
How'd you get that? Are you misusing the term "rate"? For rate, I calculate 14.3 per 48 min for Bynum and 10.8 per 48 min at age 19 for Curry. (Curry's rate at age 24, sadly, is even worse: 10.3 per 48 min.)

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 01-16-2007 8:54 PM]

Yeah I did misuse the term...But there is no need to extrapolate they both played at 19 mins per game their second year...Bynum 5.8 reb to Curry's 4.3...in 40 mins that make Bynum up 3 rebs better per game...Does that difference make up for his offense?..And how is that much better?...Curry has made it as a player..he is almost there...What's the guarantee behind Bynum??

Would you trade Curry for Oden straight up?

Isles It depends on direction of the organization and pieces I currently have in place...If Curry, Lee, and Frye exceeds expectations for the rest of the year and looks like a front line that can make a run..Ill do nothng...Oden to me right now is a polished Motumbo...Good defensive player and rebounder with limited offensive game..Do I break up my team and sell pieces with the hope that Oden will be ready in another 4 to 5 years..I'm not sure...
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