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Isiah doing everything Larry wanted
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joec32033
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1/14/2007  1:04 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by babyKnicks:

is that when the trade happened? or was that just a rumor?

This was a trade reported on the air on TNT when Lenny was the coach. I remember they said it was just about done. This was NOT a rumour. TNT reported it as a trade that was immenint at the time.

But it never happened until LB was here... and it is a rumor until it happens.

"Brown upset the Knicks during the season when he feuded with point guard Stephon Marbury, was highly critical of a variety of players and used a league-record 42 different starting lineups in an effort to find a combination he liked. Dolan was particularly upset that Brown approved trades for high-priced Jalen Rose and Steve Francis and then quickly soured on both.

According to a person familiar with details of the firing, Brown “begged for [Rose and Francis]. Two weeks later, he said, ‘You’ve got to get rid of them.’"

Fortunately, I can use the it's only a rumour card when guys say that Larry was the one who really wanted them here considering Isiah was the last name that had to ok the deal.

Please come at me with something stronger that "it was only a rumour until it happened".
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jaydh
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1/14/2007  1:09 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by babyKnicks:

is that when the trade happened? or was that just a rumor?

This was a trade reported on the air on TNT when Lenny was the coach. I remember they said it was just about done. This was NOT a rumour. TNT reported it as a trade that was immenint at the time.

But it never happened until LB was here... and it is a rumor until it happens.

"Brown upset the Knicks during the season when he feuded with point guard Stephon Marbury, was highly critical of a variety of players and used a league-record 42 different starting lineups in an effort to find a combination he liked. Dolan was particularly upset that Brown approved trades for high-priced Jalen Rose and Steve Francis and then quickly soured on both.

According to a person familiar with details of the firing, Brown “begged for [Rose and Francis]. Two weeks later, he said, ‘You’ve got to get rid of them.’"

Fortunately, I can use the it's only a rumour card when guys say that Larry was the one who really wanted them here considering Isiah was the last name that had to ok the deal.

Please come at me with something stronger that "it was only a rumour until it happened".


Did that deal that you mentioned happen? No? then its a rumor...whats so hard? until a deal actually happens, its considered a rumor.
islesfan
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1/14/2007  1:13 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by islesfan:

So out of all the players available in the NBA, Larry set his sights on Rose and Francis and forced Isiah to bring both here.

I believe he wanted others, but he settled for Rose and Francis. And yes, he was a driving force in bringing them here.

What settling? Isiah was going to do anything he could to get Larry Brown his type of players here. No matter what.

Or maybe you think guys like Eric Snow were untouchable.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
jaydh
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1/14/2007  1:14 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by islesfan:

So out of all the players available in the NBA, Larry set his sights on Rose and Francis and forced Isiah to bring both here.

I believe he wanted others, but he settled for Rose and Francis. And yes, he was a driving force in bringing them here.

What settling? Isiah was going to do anything he could to get Larry Brown his type of players here. No matter what.

Or maybe you think guys like Eric Snow were untouchable.

who said anything about snow? i'm talking about Earl Watson.. there were others but Watson is all i can recall right now.
joec32033
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1/14/2007  1:17 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by babyKnicks:

is that when the trade happened? or was that just a rumor?

This was a trade reported on the air on TNT when Lenny was the coach. I remember they said it was just about done. This was NOT a rumour. TNT reported it as a trade that was immenint at the time.

But it never happened until LB was here... and it is a rumor until it happens.

"Brown upset the Knicks during the season when he feuded with point guard Stephon Marbury, was highly critical of a variety of players and used a league-record 42 different starting lineups in an effort to find a combination he liked. Dolan was particularly upset that Brown approved trades for high-priced Jalen Rose and Steve Francis and then quickly soured on both.

According to a person familiar with details of the firing, Brown “begged for [Rose and Francis]. Two weeks later, he said, ‘You’ve got to get rid of them.’"

Fortunately, I can use the it's only a rumour card when guys say that Larry was the one who really wanted them here considering Isiah was the last name that had to ok the deal.

Please come at me with something stronger that "it was only a rumour until it happened".


Did that deal that you mentioned happen? No? then its a rumor...whats so hard? until a deal actually happens, its considered a rumor.

The fact that it was a rumour and the fact that it was reported as immenent and the source it was reported from to me only proves to me that Isiah did target Jalen before Larry got here. If my argument was that the deal happened back then you would be right. But you are not understanding waht I am saying. Isiah gave up the same thing(an expring contract) to get Rose that was rumoured the year before.

Who knows maybe Lenny told Isiah he didn't need or want Rose and Isiah had to back off, and Larry was dumb enough to tell Isiah he would try and work with it.

My intention is to show that Isiah did in fact chase Jalen before. No more ,no less. I have done that. Unless you start debating that point-as opposed to whether the deal happened or not-this argument is going nowhere.

I posted the game, date, time, station that this report was made. If you want to see it, call the station and ask for the tapes.

99% of rumours are started with a reason. This is not some messagebaord rumour. This is a rumour reported by one of the most respected station and guys-Ernie was the one who was reporting it-in the sport.
~You can't run from who you are.~
jaydh
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1/14/2007  1:21 PM
Posted by joec32033:

The fact that it was a rumour and the fact that it was reported as immenent and the source it was reported from to me only proves to me that Isiah did target Jalen before Larry got here. If my argument was that the deal happened back then you would be right. But you are not understanding waht I am saying. Isiah gave up the same thing(an expring contract) to get Rose that was rumoured the year before.

I'll give you that Isiah had interest in Rose's expriring contract, but that deal was never going to happen if LB didn't come here. Only reason I say that is because Isiah had the chance to get Rose but pulled out of the deal(before LB was here).
holfresh
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1/14/2007  1:23 PM

I just love the way history is being rewritten in these pages...That fact that Dolan said LB begged for these players mean nothing...How about this..How does Isiah justify to Dolan a player he wanted so badly half a season ago needs to be bought out?..How does he also justify that Francis that he wanted should now be bought out?...


jaydh
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1/14/2007  1:29 PM
Posted by holfresh:


How does Isiah justify to Dolan a player he wanted so badly half a season ago needs to be bought out?..How does he also justify that Francis that he wanted should now be bought out?...

this is why some people think isiah is incompetent. they don't like to look at the truth but are blinded by their hate for isiah.
joec32033
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1/14/2007  1:30 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by joec32033:

The fact that it was a rumour and the fact that it was reported as immenent and the source it was reported from to me only proves to me that Isiah did target Jalen before Larry got here. If my argument was that the deal happened back then you would be right. But you are not understanding waht I am saying. Isiah gave up the same thing(an expring contract) to get Rose that was rumoured the year before.

I'll give you that Isiah had interest in Rose's expriring contract, but that deal was never going to happen if LB didn't come here. Only reason I say that is because Isiah had the chance to get Rose but pulled out of the deal(before LB was here).

And how do we know it was Isiah who pulled back? The report was a multi team deal. How do you know Toronto didn't pull back? Anfernee still had a full year left on his contract. Maybe Toronto thought they could get immediate relief at best, at worst they were stuck with Jalen who was still playing decently.

The fact that Isiah wanted Roses' contract also happens to come with Rose the player, offsets the fact tnhat Isiah only wanted his contract. And I would like to know why he wanted his contract if he was just going to buy him out? If he was a going to use his expiring contract as a bigger piece of a trade, fine-then why buy him out?

Look, Dolan has been saying that it was all Larry's fault those guys are here. Isiah was just getting what the coach wants. Now Larry's gone and at the begining of the season we have both Francis and Rose. Why now does Dolan put financial retraints on Isiah if all this salary that was brought in was all Larry's fault? Why? Why put the restraints on the guy you trust to make moves to fix a situation that he said was no fault of Isiah's?

~You can't run from who you are.~
joec32033
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1/14/2007  1:31 PM
Posted by holfresh:


I just love the way history is being rewritten in these pages...That fact that Dolan said LB begged for these players mean nothing...How about this..How does Isiah justify to Dolan a player he wanted so badly half a season ago needs to be bought out?..How does he also justify that Francis that he wanted should now be bought out?...



I'll pose the same question to you...

Dolan has been saying that it was all Larry's fault those guys are here. Isiah was just getting what the coach wants. Now Larry's gone and at the begining of the season we have both Francis and Rose. Why now does Dolan put financial retraints on Isiah if all this salary that was brought in was all Larry's fault? Why? Why put the restraints on the guy you trust to make moves to fix a situation that he said was no fault of Isiah's?
~You can't run from who you are.~
holfresh
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1/14/2007  1:33 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by joec32033:

The fact that it was a rumour and the fact that it was reported as immenent and the source it was reported from to me only proves to me that Isiah did target Jalen before Larry got here. If my argument was that the deal happened back then you would be right. But you are not understanding waht I am saying. Isiah gave up the same thing(an expring contract) to get Rose that was rumoured the year before.

I'll give you that Isiah had interest in Rose's expriring contract, but that deal was never going to happen if LB didn't come here. Only reason I say that is because Isiah had the chance to get Rose but pulled out of the deal(before LB was here).

And how do we know it was Isiah who pulled back? The report was a multi team deal. How do you know Toronto didn't pull back? Anfernee still had a full year left on his contract. Maybe Toronto thought they could get immediate relief at best, at worst they were stuck with Jalen who was still playing decently.

The fact that Isiah wanted Roses' contract also happens to come with Rose the player, offsets the fact tnhat Isiah only wanted his contract. And I would like to know why he wanted his contract if he was just going to buy him out? If he was a going to use his expiring contract as a bigger piece of a trade, fine-then why buy him out?

Look, Dolan has been saying that it was all Larry's fault those guys are here. Isiah was just getting what the coach wants. Now Larry's gone and at the begining of the season we have both Francis and Rose. Why now does Dolan put financial retraints on Isiah if all this salary that was brought in was all Larry's fault? Why? Why put the restraints on the guy you trust to make moves to fix a situation that he said was no fault of Isiah's?

Tell the entire story why don't you...He wanted a guy name Vince Carter as well..Toronto wanted to include Rose's contract..But why tell the whole story, it would support your entire argument...
joec32033
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1/14/2007  1:35 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by joec32033:

The fact that it was a rumour and the fact that it was reported as immenent and the source it was reported from to me only proves to me that Isiah did target Jalen before Larry got here. If my argument was that the deal happened back then you would be right. But you are not understanding waht I am saying. Isiah gave up the same thing(an expring contract) to get Rose that was rumoured the year before.

I'll give you that Isiah had interest in Rose's expriring contract, but that deal was never going to happen if LB didn't come here. Only reason I say that is because Isiah had the chance to get Rose but pulled out of the deal(before LB was here).

And how do we know it was Isiah who pulled back? The report was a multi team deal. How do you know Toronto didn't pull back? Anfernee still had a full year left on his contract. Maybe Toronto thought they could get immediate relief at best, at worst they were stuck with Jalen who was still playing decently.

The fact that Isiah wanted Roses' contract also happens to come with Rose the player, offsets the fact tnhat Isiah only wanted his contract. And I would like to know why he wanted his contract if he was just going to buy him out? If he was a going to use his expiring contract as a bigger piece of a trade, fine-then why buy him out?

Look, Dolan has been saying that it was all Larry's fault those guys are here. Isiah was just getting what the coach wants. Now Larry's gone and at the begining of the season we have both Francis and Rose. Why now does Dolan put financial retraints on Isiah if all this salary that was brought in was all Larry's fault? Why? Why put the restraints on the guy you trust to make moves to fix a situation that he said was no fault of Isiah's?

Tell the entire story why don't you...He wanted a guy name Vince Carter as well..Toronto wanted to include Rose's contract..But why tell the whole story, it would support your entire argument...


How about you read the link I supported. This deal had NOTHING to do with Vince Carter.
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holfresh
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1/14/2007  1:36 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by holfresh:


I just love the way history is being rewritten in these pages...That fact that Dolan said LB begged for these players mean nothing...How about this..How does Isiah justify to Dolan a player he wanted so badly half a season ago needs to be bought out?..How does he also justify that Francis that he wanted should now be bought out?...



I'll pose the same question to you...

Dolan has been saying that it was all Larry's fault those guys are here. Isiah was just getting what the coach wants. Now Larry's gone and at the begining of the season we have both Francis and Rose. Why now does Dolan put financial retraints on Isiah if all this salary that was brought in was all Larry's fault? Why? Why put the restraints on the guy you trust to make moves to fix a situation that he said was no fault of Isiah's?

Because the Knicks as an organization has spent silly money the last few years...They answer in making the team better isn't spending money but getting the team to play better...I'm sure if this team plays well and get to the playoffs then Isiah can go out and get the pieces to get to the next level...
joec32033
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1/14/2007  1:41 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by holfresh:


I just love the way history is being rewritten in these pages...That fact that Dolan said LB begged for these players mean nothing...How about this..How does Isiah justify to Dolan a player he wanted so badly half a season ago needs to be bought out?..How does he also justify that Francis that he wanted should now be bought out?...



I'll pose the same question to you...

Dolan has been saying that it was all Larry's fault those guys are here. Isiah was just getting what the coach wants. Now Larry's gone and at the begining of the season we have both Francis and Rose. Why now does Dolan put financial retraints on Isiah if all this salary that was brought in was all Larry's fault? Why? Why put the restraints on the guy you trust to make moves to fix a situation that he said was no fault of Isiah's?

Because the Knicks as an organization has spent silly money the last few years...They answer in making the team better isn't spending money but getting the team to play better...I'm sure if this team plays well and get to the playoffs then Isiah can go out and get the pieces to get to the next level...


So all of a sudden after 3 years of Isiah he just happens to change the way he wants Isiah to operate after two horrible -especially from the financial side-trades both he and Larry had a hand in now it's a new business approach because it is all the guy that you had fired's fault.

Ok, if you say so.
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oohah
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1/14/2007  1:42 PM
Joe, whacha gonna say when Francis and Rose are starting for Philly?

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
joec32033
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1/14/2007  1:47 PM
Posted by oohah:

Joe, whacha gonna say when Francis and Rose are starting for Philly?

oohah

LOL! That Larry made a smart move signing them for the minimum after Isiah spent millions to buy them out.

The question is whose payroll do they come off of first, New York or Philly?
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jaydh
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1/14/2007  1:53 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by joec32033:

The fact that it was a rumour and the fact that it was reported as immenent and the source it was reported from to me only proves to me that Isiah did target Jalen before Larry got here. If my argument was that the deal happened back then you would be right. But you are not understanding waht I am saying. Isiah gave up the same thing(an expring contract) to get Rose that was rumoured the year before.

I'll give you that Isiah had interest in Rose's expriring contract, but that deal was never going to happen if LB didn't come here. Only reason I say that is because Isiah had the chance to get Rose but pulled out of the deal(before LB was here).

And how do we know it was Isiah who pulled back? The report was a multi team deal. How do you know Toronto didn't pull back? Anfernee still had a full year left on his contract. Maybe Toronto thought they could get immediate relief at best, at worst they were stuck with Jalen who was still playing decently.

The fact that Isiah wanted Roses' contract also happens to come with Rose the player, offsets the fact tnhat Isiah only wanted his contract. And I would like to know why he wanted his contract if he was just going to buy him out? If he was a going to use his expiring contract as a bigger piece of a trade, fine-then why buy him out?

I remember reading it back when all this was happening that isiah pulled out of the original deal with toronto, i'll search online and try to find it.

Isiah had no intention of buying him out but rather trading his expiring deal for someone with a longer contract while also picking up picks along the way, but that philosophy has obviously changed. Dolan most likely wants to fix the mess before adding more salary again. That is why Rose and possibly Francis will be bought out, both LB guys. This is why Malik Rose isn't being bought out, he's not in the plans but remains. Isiah is just getting rid of the guys LB told him to bring here last season. It makes zero sense for Isiah to have wanted Francis and Rose be a part of this team. Not when he already has Marbury, Crawford, Nate, Qrich, Ariza. It just seems redundant and also seems like it wasn't his call(which it wasn't).
holfresh
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1/14/2007  1:56 PM

We all have had our fill of LB...The Knicks has turned the page now and so should we...This season is nothing like what LB wanted...LB wanted to be a disruptive force that surrounded on what his personal needs were...He is, and has, and will always be a DIVA..It was all about the drama last year and now it's about basketball and the team getting better..I like it better this way...

Everyone on the planet knows who just don't fit here and and that we needed more defensive minded players...Isiah is trying to make those moves...Screw LB and the horse he rode out of town on...Let him now spend Philly's money and screw that organization..You just know it's coming..He will be GM and coach before you can say delusionalbuyouttalktothepressbury...I still can't believe he is still some sort of Gothic figure after the stunt he pulled here last year...
jaydh
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1/14/2007  1:58 PM
btw, deep down, i think LB is just paying us back for beating his Reggie Miller Pacers around during their best years.
islesfan
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1/14/2007  2:43 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by joec32033:

The fact that it was a rumour and the fact that it was reported as immenent and the source it was reported from to me only proves to me that Isiah did target Jalen before Larry got here. If my argument was that the deal happened back then you would be right. But you are not understanding waht I am saying. Isiah gave up the same thing(an expring contract) to get Rose that was rumoured the year before.

I'll give you that Isiah had interest in Rose's expriring contract, but that deal was never going to happen if LB didn't come here. Only reason I say that is because Isiah had the chance to get Rose but pulled out of the deal(before LB was here).

And how do we know it was Isiah who pulled back? The report was a multi team deal. How do you know Toronto didn't pull back? Anfernee still had a full year left on his contract. Maybe Toronto thought they could get immediate relief at best, at worst they were stuck with Jalen who was still playing decently.

The fact that Isiah wanted Roses' contract also happens to come with Rose the player, offsets the fact tnhat Isiah only wanted his contract. And I would like to know why he wanted his contract if he was just going to buy him out? If he was a going to use his expiring contract as a bigger piece of a trade, fine-then why buy him out?

Look, Dolan has been saying that it was all Larry's fault those guys are here. Isiah was just getting what the coach wants. Now Larry's gone and at the begining of the season we have both Francis and Rose. Why now does Dolan put financial retraints on Isiah if all this salary that was brought in was all Larry's fault? Why? Why put the restraints on the guy you trust to make moves to fix a situation that he said was no fault of Isiah's?

Tell the entire story why don't you...He wanted a guy name Vince Carter as well..Toronto wanted to include Rose's contract..But why tell the whole story, it would support your entire argument...


That's pretty funny since Dolan said both Larry and Isiah wanted the Rose and Francis deals.

But why include that part when you can leave it out and place all the blame on Larry.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
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