Posted by islesfan:

Posted by djsunyc:

i'll say it again since nobody caught it he first time.

"i mean with so many quality minds here, it's almost like we have a mass-debate."

get it? mass-debate...as in masterbate.

BWHAHAHAHAHAAHA.

That's it. I'm not going to your UK gathering at the Nets game.

Now you asking everyone if they're "coming", makes a lot more sense.

it's too bad b/c we're all going to be dining in...and eating out...

You don't take big risks unless you hope for big rewards. Teams that never make any moves, and instead only draft and make moves in Free Agency have to get incredibly lucky. Cap space is good but not enough. There has to be a Shaquille there ready to bolt, or a Steve Nash getting disrespect from Mark Cuban, or a T-Mac/Grant Hill collusion to go to Orlando at once. In other words, you need everything to break right, otherwise you end up spending your cap space on lesser players, see Martin, Kenyon.

Atlanta and Charlotte are the only teams with cap space so they are the only teams building for a title then, huh?

Posted by kam77:

You don't take big risks unless you hope for big rewards. Teams that never make any moves, and instead only draft and make moves in Free Agency have to get incredibly lucky. Cap space is good but not enough. There has to be a Shaquille there ready to bolt, or a Steve Nash getting disrespect from Mark Cuban, or a T-Mac/Grant Hill collusion to go to Orlando at once. In other words, you need everything to break right, otherwise you end up spending your cap space on lesser players, see Martin, Kenyon.

Atlanta and Charlotte are the only teams with cap space so they are the only teams building for a title then, huh?

You post as if you're really thick-headed. It's hard to have a conversation with you when you do a mental replace with what was said with what you heard.

Anyway, Atlanta and Charlotte actually are building for a championship. They're continuing to acquire young pieces and have the cap room that if the right free agent comes along, they can jump on it. They're also in the wrong cities, where free agents are less inclined to go. If the Knicks were doing what Atlanta and Charlotte were doing, we'd be in outstanding shape. Take Charlotte. So far under the cap, has a core of Okafor, Felton, Morrison, Knight, Wallace, and the money to chase the star of their choice. In NY, there's a nice chance that you stay under the guy you want comes along, possibly trade one or two of the kids for picks that won't need to be re-upped right away and have a legit shot at LeBron, Wade, Bosh, etc...? You don't think, say, Okafor + LeBron = championship?

Sure, opportunity is a huge factor, but so is being in a position to take advantage of the opportunity. Steve Nash (your example) is a GREAT example. The Suns were ABLE to TAKE ADVANTAGE of the opportunity because they got under the cap. We never are, so when a great opportunity comes along, it passes us by because we were in no position to do anything to help ourselves. See it yet?

Posted by Solace:
It's hard to have a conversation with you when you do a mental replace with what was said with what you heard.

Oh brother, do I know the feeling. (not referring to you kam btw)

Great opportunities are great! How can one disagree. In a perfect world where we can control all the variables i'd be an idiot to think differently. But just having cap space isn't enough. You gotta have the right guy there waiting in FA. How often does it happen though?

What if Nash wasn't available... who does PHX go out and spend their money on that gets them anywhere close to the team they are today under Nash? they either sit on their money for another year and have another 30 win season or they spend it on a guy who may not fit as well.

Atlanta is no worse a city than PHX in my opinion. Probably nicer. Why can't they attract a FA and instead had to trade Boris Diaw and two first rounders (lottery first rounders) to PHX for Joe Johnson?

Atlanta has had cap space for years.

I contend that every five years, you get a shot at nabbing a supserstar as a free agent. it just doens't happen as often as you think.

I get it.

Posted by kam77:

DJSU

KOBE went nowhere. He could have gone elsewhere, had an offer from the Clips and wouldn't have had to even move. Stayed with the LAKERS and why??? Becuase they can pay him more than any other team.

Free agents rarely bolt. Mark Cuban's folly is just as critical to PHXs ascencion as the Marbury trade that freed up the money they spent on Nash. Credit Colangelo a million times for that. But it doesn't happen without luck.

new york is different. and i firmly believe that. cap space + ny = super duper star.

no plan is perfect. isiah has his own methods and vision.
i just don't agree with it as a sound plan for building towards an elite level team. that's all.

and my basis for judgement is by using all the teams that made the finals over the past 20+ years.

but you like what you're seeing so far. it's all good.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 01-11-2007 5:36 PM]

One of our biggest problems is we think its luck

Whatever mistakes Isiah has made.... ok we don't have a Chris Paul and and a Tyrus thomas. We gave up Kirk Snyder in the Marbury deal. I'm trying to think of all the other #1 picks we could have had... whatever...

Are we still on the path to a title, I voted yes. Maybe Marbury will not be here when we get there, it might take 5 years or more, but if it does it'll be because we had some talent on our roster. Curry, Frye, lee, these guys are nothing to sneeze at either.

The funny part is, we wouldn't even be discussing any of this if Isiah had coached the team last year. So much destruction happened to us in 2006.

When JJ shoots the ball they should automatically score us a turnover

Mavs got Dirk=Luck

Heat hitch their wagon to ZO&Eddie jones, turn thatinto Shaq and Wade=Luck

Spurs are not a titlewith RObinson, he goes down the year Duncan is a senoir=Luck

Nets Trade under achieving Marbury, for under achieving Kidd, which Kidd then turns out to be a top three point guard of all time=Luck

How many of those have to do with Lottery picks and cap space????? I can keep going.

Everybody knows Jordan and Ewing were franchise players who were top draft picks, but who was that player for the Pacers??? Smits & Reggie??? Teams grow and get lucky, stop bitching and enjoy the ride!!!!!!!!