Posted by PresIke:

Or heck Dennis Rodman. I mean the dude was a "role player" as well, but his hustle clearly helped those Bulls teams win, and the Pistons. It takes stars to mesh with great role players, but I think to so easily dismiss Balkman at this point is laughable at best.

LOL Yeah, because it's very common for role players to become stars like Big Ben and Rodman.

That's beyond laughable.

Call isles, Knick-ro-damous, then I guess.

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by PresIke:

Or heck Dennis Rodman. I mean the dude was a "role player" as well, but his hustle clearly helped those Bulls teams win, and the Pistons. It takes stars to mesh with great role players, but I think to so easily dismiss Balkman at this point is laughable at best.

LOL Yeah, because it's very common for role players to become stars like Big Ben and Rodman.

That's beyond laughable.

Not as laughable as banking on your assumption as to what we know about the future. I believe the reason Isiah drafted Balkman was because he reminded him of those very players. I'm not saying that he IS going to be them, or anywhere near as good. Just maybe use a little patience instead of bold predictions based on half of a rookie's first season.

Hey Pres, did you know that every Harvard dropout isn't guaranteed to become as successful as Bill Gates?

Tony Parker was drafted 28th

Gilbert Arenas was drafted in the second round. So go figure. But since we have Knick-ro-domus on the forum, nobody is allowed to suggest that something other than this future will ocurr.

sigh

Posted by PresIke:

Gilbert Arenas was drafted in the second round. So go figure. But since we have Knick-ro-domus on the forum, nobody is allowed to suggest that something other than this future will ocurr.

sigh

What has Balkman shown that he can be an out of this world rebounder and defender in the Wallace/Rodman molds?

That doesn't mean that he can't be a good role player but I'd rather have a good starting PG.

I wanted Williams too, at our spot, and maybe I will come to resent Isiah for that move, but I see some hope for Balkman.

If Ben Wallace was that great when he was younger, then why did the Wiz let him go, and then why was he traded for Grant Hill? Balkmman shows a lot of potential as a defensive stopper, a la a Bowen, who a lot of teams are desperate for, but can also block shots with one-on-one defense and finish well around the rim. I think Balkman's one-on-one defense might be huge for us in years to come against top SFs and some SGs like James and Anthony, if we ever get good, because he can block them while defending them. That's what Ben Wallace can do, and one reason why I like Balkman's potential. He can dribble pretty well, and finish. His jumper ain't much to write home about, but it is better than Wallaces by far. He won't block 10 shots a game, but he will be key against good teams.

In the current NBA finding top defenders, my friend, I believe is harder than potentially good PGs who like to shoot a lot.

[Edited by - PresIke on 01-08-2007 5:06 PM]

Another point to consider. Tayshaun Prince and Bruce Bowen weren't able to score earlier in their career. Neither of them are great offensive players now, but they learned to score enough to become effective starters - and both have rings.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Solace:

Posted by TMS:

1 of the main complaints people have had on this board is that we are lacking in a defensive minded pass first PG & yet people consistently bemoan the fact that the Knicks passed on a defensively weak shooting PG & took an athletic defensive minded player who can rebound & block shots.

this debate is always good for a monday morning chuckle.

If we didn't need him, we probably could've traded him for two late first round picks (like the Nets picks), instead of taking Balkman too high. The fact that people don't account for draft value at all is kinda worth a chuckle, too. It's not that Isiah didn't get a good player, it's that Isiah did what he always does: overpay. Take into account that that pick cost the Knicks $34 million. Foolish move by Isiah, but he "got his guy", even though it was a reach, just like he did with Frye, Nate, etc... so I guess it's okay.

Anyway, this topic is dry and boring at this point. Thinking of us having gotten Marcus Williams would've been a nice thing, but he's a Net and will seriously help that organization. We have Balkman. Let's move on.

again, where are you getting this fantasy notion that we would have been able to trade him for 2 late 1st rounders when he wasn't even taken until the #22 pick in the draft? does that make sense to you Solace? cuz it sure as hell doesn't make sense to me... when 21 other NBA GM's passed on this guy, what on God's green earth would give u the impression that the other 7 GM's who picked after the Nets did would've given you 2 late 1st rounders for him (if they even had 2 late 1st rounders to trade)? just more speculation that's completely unfounded... all these "woulda's, shoulda's, coulda's" are good for internet forum fodder, but let's try & deal in reality here... the Knicks picked the guy who made the most sense for their franchise & filled the biggest needs... case closed... all the talk about Balkman still being on the boards at #30 is just more speculation for the supposed "experts" to talk about til the cows come home... me personally, i'm not an expert... i form my opinions based on stuff that actually happens... & to me, Balkman has been a welcome addition to this franchise & well worth the pick we took him with.

sorry, just re-read that post & i don't mean to come off as an a-hole to you bro... just saying i'm sick of all the speculation based debates.

I was throwing that possibility out there simply. Frankly, I would've just let Jalen Rose expire and called it a day. Had we not done the Mo T trade and not done the Jalen trade, we would've had the #29 and #32 picks in that draft, PLUS something in the ballpark of $70 MM worth of savings. Those two picks could've most likely still netted us Balkman + Collins. Furthermore, Phoenix SOLD two picks during that draft for $3 million each. Clearly other teams were interested in Marcus Williams. I understand he slipped, but many teams were going to take him if the Nets hadn't. You can't deny that. Is it worth two late first rounders? Maybe. Or maybe just a late first rounder and early second rounder.

We've hashed through the details many times. Balkman really wasn't on anyone's radar as going that high. Other teams that liked him didn't peg him as a first rounder. We did, and so far he's shown that he deserved to be there, even though other teams hadn't pegged him that high. That's still no excuse to overpay. We pulled a typical Isiah and overpaid. I honestly believe Isiah would've taken Balkman 15th, 10th... because that's Isiah's mode. He targets in on his guy and ignores value.

That's why the team is in such a flux and guys are getting excited about being 15-21. Guys here knock on GMs who took 20 win teams to 45-50 win teams and these same people compliment Isiah for making us so bad that we don't even "threaten" to be a .500 team.

Marcus Williams would've been a nice piece, regardless of whether or not we kept him or traded him. Instead, we decided to draft a guy that we could use, then right after, sign a guy who makes the guy we drafted invalid. WOW.

Posted by izybx:

Posted by Bippity10:

I love Balkman but I think at some point we are going to have to find a young PG to grow with Eddie.

I agree, but I dont get the impression that M Williams is this once in a lifetime point guard. I think that in almost every drafy there will be equivalent players. Granted, the same can be said about balkman. At the very least, I dont think that it was that terrible of a decision by IT

I dont' think he's a once in a lifetime PG. And I'm wary of his off court nonsense. But he is a rarity in today's game and that is a PG with a natural feel for the game who knows how to not only run an offense, but lead a team and hit big shots. I think you will see that more and more as he gets real minutes. Mark my words, he will be good.

That's not to destroy the Balkman pick. I always say, your job is to get a good player in the draft. You can't always get the best. 90% of the drafts someone will pick someone better after you. So I don't have a huge problem with the actual pick. I just don't understand how you give away draft picks for a big man of the future. YOu have a PG who's prime will be past when that big man develops. How do you pass on a PG that could grow with the big man. Sometimes that's all the combination you need to be a legit contender. The rest is just filler. I ddon't question Isiah's draft picks. I just would have gone in a different direction.