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Why does the NBA go so bizzerk over fights? Baseball/Hockey/Football fight ALL THE TIME
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MS
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12/21/2006  3:51 PM
In all honesty what’s the bottom line in any business it’s making money, and that is what Stern is all about, growing the league, expanding globally, and who is the most important people off the court to make that happen? The fan base who happens to be predominatly white, and they pay the excessive salaries for a lot of these babies who don’t take care of the game or conduct themselves in a professional manner. Was the dress code about race, absolutely, the NBA is trying to protect its image and when you have people coming into press conference with huge diamond chains, sun glasses, and du-rags the consumer has a hard time identifying with that.

Was a dress code needed, I think it was because some of these players take it too far, I personally think players look more professional in suits and business attire, every job has some sort of dress code, everyone would like to wear jeans sneakers and casual cloths, but you look like **** doing it…….

The NBA is the most identifiable league going, players are recognized all over the world and the game needs ambassadors to take care of the league, and they need to preserve there fan base, grow their fan base, and if Stern creates a dress code to do that, more power to him……

And with guaranteed contracts, these players a lot of them are not well spoken or intelligent enough to see that they benefit financially in the long run, things are not being changed to be racist……

You want to make it a huge racial issue, its more than fair because it is, fighting takes place in every sport and its not nearly as big of deal, throwing a fastball at someone’s head is far more dangerous than what Collins did, Bertuzzi nearly paralyzing a player on the ice was far more criminal than what I have scene in the NBA, but its about identifiablity, Stern is not a facist, he is trying to save this game that we all love, and culture has notions of what to expect and unfortunately they see tats, cornrows and, and black players fighting they generalize what the league is about, which isn’t fair…..
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Anji
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12/21/2006  5:04 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by Anji:

IT's because it the NBA is viewed as an black league populated by inner city hoodlums by suburban midde age whites. Pretty simple.


I don't see it as simple at all.

Lets project a hypothetical 10 years out from now. Hip Hop has become over-saturated and waned. The new cultural phenomenon is called "Hell Hop". It grews out the the white outer-suburbs and is based on Hells Angels fashions. Typical attire long pony tails and beards, leather vests with no shirts, big black boots full of chrome spikes with similar wrist bands, and of course, chains abound. The poster child of the movement is the dude from the Gimme Shelter concert who stabbed a Stones fan and provoked a riot.

Along with such dress the fashion also includes decked out Harley Davidson SABs (Suburban Assault Bikes) with sawed off shot guns in the rear boot (which they use with pride) and loud acid-metal music that is homophobic, misogynistic and not too subtlety anti-minority. Disrespect for authority goes without saying, and gang-bang brawls are not uncommon.

Shocking as it may seem, the NBA player of the near future embraces this "white" fashion/culture en mass, but the fans aren't sure they can relate as the more money the athletes make the more casual their approach to the game, and the more trouble they get in. Practice is treated like a joke by many, coaches who aren't hand picked by the stars are annual casualties, and drug and gun arrests are commonplace

The future black commissioner of the NBA has no interest in regulating society as a whole, but he does require that NBA players at least forgo the leather and spikes when traveling with the team and wear casual business attire or better.

Would that requirement be racially motivated?

[Edited by - BlueSeats on 12-20-2006 6:42 PM]
YOu are taking about the dress code??? No???

This thread is taking about overt racial labbing that NBA players get for things that happen more often in other sports.... right??? I could careless about a dress code. Clyde and Earl wore suits but kept their Gulliness and flare. So I have no problems with having to dress up, because that does mean you can't still be gully in a suit.

Second, Hip hop music is in Football and baseball as well. Drugs and Guns are in football and baseball way more then basketball. If Cocain was apart of Basketball like it was in baseball in the 90's, why aren't they considered to be crack heads??? Because they are good ole boys and they look like whites. Football players are way more violent and get in way more troube, but the most visible aspects of the sport are not threating to white people. Most of the coaches are white, most of the quarterbacks are white and everyone in the NFL is a replaceable cog that wears helmits....basically invisible.

People can act like it isn't there, but IF you are 60 years old somebody in your family probably killed a black man. If you are 50 years old your father grew up in america when the goverment said it was legal to kill blacks. If you are 40 years old you grew up in house hold that was told they had more rights then blacks. This are the writers and people with money today. IT's because it the NBA is viewed as an black league populated by inner city hoodlums by suburban midde age whites. Pretty simple. We don't have to get into the mental part of about then why do whites support the league or how many black friends you have. This country is racial with a bloody racist past. That doesn't go away over nigth. Simple.
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
BlueSeats
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12/21/2006  6:39 PM
Posted by Anji:
YOu are taking about the dress code??? No???

I believe killa was, I'm merely following his lead.
This thread is taking about overt racial labbing that NBA players get for things that happen more often in other sports.... right??? I could careless about a dress code. Clyde and Earl wore suits but kept their Gulliness and flare. So I have no problems with having to dress up, because that does mean you can't still be gully in a suit.

I agree.
Second, Hip hop music is in Football and baseball as well. Drugs and Guns are in football and baseball way more then basketball.


Now you're losing me. Is this about music? Drugs and guns?

If Cocain was apart of Basketball like it was in baseball in the 90's, why aren't they considered to be crack heads??? Because they are good ole boys and they look like whites.


Conversely, if someone is "out to get" the NBA player why no steroid scandals?

Football players are way more violent and get in way more troube, but the most visible aspects of the sport are not threating to white people. Most of the coaches are white, most of the quarterbacks are white and everyone in the NFL is a replaceable cog that wears helmits....basically invisible.

But the brawls don't go into the stands.
People can act like it isn't there, but IF you are 60 years old somebody in your family probably killed a black man. If you are 50 years old your father grew up in america when the goverment said it was legal to kill blacks. If you are 40 years old you grew up in house hold that was told they had more rights then blacks. This are the writers and people with money today. IT's because it the NBA is viewed as an black league populated by inner city hoodlums by suburban midde age whites. Pretty simple. We don't have to get into the mental part of about then why do whites support the league or how many black friends you have. This country is racial with a bloody racist past. That doesn't go away over nigth. Simple.


What is the "it" to which you refer?

The dress code that you say doesn't bother you, or something else?

If "it" is so simple why are you guys having such a hard time to define what you're talking about?
BlueSeats
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12/21/2006  6:46 PM
Posted by MS:

Was the dress code about race, absolutely, the NBA is trying to protect its image and when you have people coming into press conference with huge diamond chains, sun glasses, and du-rags the consumer has a hard time identifying with that.


See I think that's a racist notion to identify a racial group with dressing down. Any race is capable of it, and no race needs to be defined by it. Fashion is transitory and chosen, race is something one is born into and lasts a lifetime.

That's why I see no one biting on my Hell Hop example. If the down dressers are white, or white inspired, and the league didn't want it's employees trotting around in those white inspired beards, chains and bear chested leather, would it still be charged with racism, or would it just be considered the maintenance of standards that the broadcasters, coaches and executives (of all races) still adhere to?


[Edited by - BlueSeats on 12-21-2006 7:00 PM]
SugarRayRichardson
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12/21/2006  6:47 PM
Isiah had a dress code long before the NBA. Is he racist because of it? Many business have dress codes. Its really low to equate that with racism
I LOVED how Curry just exploded in the 4th, speaking as a fan of the Raptors, Curry looked well, scary I think is the word. Or Shaq-like Curry: 19.1ppg-7.3rpg-58%fg
Anji
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12/21/2006  6:57 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by Anji:
YOu are taking about the dress code??? No???

I believe killa was, I'm merely following his lead.
This thread is taking about overt racial labbing that NBA players get for things that happen more often in other sports.... right??? I could careless about a dress code. Clyde and Earl wore suits but kept their Gulliness and flare. So I have no problems with having to dress up, because that does mean you can't still be gully in a suit.

I agree.
Second, Hip hop music is in Football and baseball as well. Drugs and Guns are in football and baseball way more then basketball.


Now you're losing me. Is this about music? Drugs and guns?

If Cocain was apart of Basketball like it was in baseball in the 90's, why aren't they considered to be crack heads??? Because they are good ole boys and they look like whites.


Conversely, if someone is "out to get" the NBA player why no steroid scandals?

Football players are way more violent and get in way more troube, but the most visible aspects of the sport are not threating to white people. Most of the coaches are white, most of the quarterbacks are white and everyone in the NFL is a replaceable cog that wears helmits....basically invisible.

But the brawls don't go into the stands.
People can act like it isn't there, but IF you are 60 years old somebody in your family probably killed a black man. If you are 50 years old your father grew up in america when the goverment said it was legal to kill blacks. If you are 40 years old you grew up in house hold that was told they had more rights then blacks. This are the writers and people with money today. IT's because the NBA is viewed as an black league populated by inner city hoodlums by suburban midde age whites. Pretty simple. We don't have to get into the mental part about why do whites support the league or how many black friends you have. This country is racial with a bloody racist past. That doesn't go away over nigth. Simple.
It is racism, be it subconscious or not. It was the Law of this counrty for tooo long for it not to be. I don't blame most people, I do know it is real though..........

ANd Baseball players have gone after fans way more then it has happened in basketball. HOw is that not worst???? Because they aren't animals????

What is the "it" to which you refer?

The dress code that you say doesn't bother you, or something else?

If "it" is so simple why are you guys having such a hard time to define what you're talking about?

IT is
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
Anji
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12/21/2006  6:59 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by Anji:
YOu are taking about the dress code??? No???

I believe killa was, I'm merely following his lead.
This thread is taking about overt racial labbing that NBA players get for things that happen more often in other sports.... right??? I could careless about a dress code. Clyde and Earl wore suits but kept their Gulliness and flare. So I have no problems with having to dress up, because that does mean you can't still be gully in a suit.

I agree.
Second, Hip hop music is in Football and baseball as well. Drugs and Guns are in football and baseball way more then basketball.


Now you're losing me. Is this about music? Drugs and guns?

If Cocain was apart of Basketball like it was in baseball in the 90's, why aren't they considered to be crack heads??? Because they are good ole boys and they look like whites.


Conversely, if someone is "out to get" the NBA player why no steroid scandals?

Football players are way more violent and get in way more troube, but the most visible aspects of the sport are not threating to white people. Most of the coaches are white, most of the quarterbacks are white and everyone in the NFL is a replaceable cog that wears helmits....basically invisible.

But the brawls don't go into the stands.
People can act like it isn't there, but IF you are 60 years old somebody in your family probably killed a black man. If you are 50 years old your father grew up in america when the goverment said it was legal to kill blacks. If you are 40 years old you grew up in house hold that was told they had more rights then blacks. This are the writers and people with money today. IT's because the NBA is viewed as an black league populated by inner city hoodlums by suburban midde age whites. Pretty simple. We don't have to get into the mental part about why do whites support the league or how many black friends you have. This country is racial with a bloody racist past. That doesn't go away over nigth. Simple.

What is the "it" to which you refer?

The dress code that you say doesn't bother you, or something else?

If "it" is so simple why are you guys having such a hard time to define what you're talking about?

It is racism, be it subconscious or not. It was the Law of this counrty for tooo long for it not to be a problem. I don't blame most people, I do know it is real though..........

ANd Baseball players have gone after fans way more then it has happened in basketball. HOw is that not worst???? Because they aren't animals????


[Edited by - anji on 12-21-2006 6:59 PM]
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
BlueSeats
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12/21/2006  7:03 PM
Posted by Anji:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by Anji:
YOu are taking about the dress code??? No???

I believe killa was, I'm merely following his lead.
This thread is taking about overt racial labbing that NBA players get for things that happen more often in other sports.... right??? I could careless about a dress code. Clyde and Earl wore suits but kept their Gulliness and flare. So I have no problems with having to dress up, because that does mean you can't still be gully in a suit.

I agree.
Second, Hip hop music is in Football and baseball as well. Drugs and Guns are in football and baseball way more then basketball.


Now you're losing me. Is this about music? Drugs and guns?

If Cocain was apart of Basketball like it was in baseball in the 90's, why aren't they considered to be crack heads??? Because they are good ole boys and they look like whites.


Conversely, if someone is "out to get" the NBA player why no steroid scandals?

Football players are way more violent and get in way more troube, but the most visible aspects of the sport are not threating to white people. Most of the coaches are white, most of the quarterbacks are white and everyone in the NFL is a replaceable cog that wears helmits....basically invisible.

But the brawls don't go into the stands.
People can act like it isn't there, but IF you are 60 years old somebody in your family probably killed a black man. If you are 50 years old your father grew up in america when the goverment said it was legal to kill blacks. If you are 40 years old you grew up in house hold that was told they had more rights then blacks. This are the writers and people with money today. IT's because the NBA is viewed as an black league populated by inner city hoodlums by suburban midde age whites. Pretty simple. We don't have to get into the mental part about why do whites support the league or how many black friends you have. This country is racial with a bloody racist past. That doesn't go away over nigth. Simple.

What is the "it" to which you refer?

The dress code that you say doesn't bother you, or something else?

If "it" is so simple why are you guys having such a hard time to define what you're talking about?

It is racism, be it subconscious or not. It was the Law of this counrty for tooo long for it not to be a problem. I don't blame most people, I do know it is real though..........

ANd Baseball players have gone after fans way more then it has happened in basketball. HOw is that not worst???? Because they aren't animals????


You're still not defining, or illustrating, what you consider to be the expression of racism in the NBA.
SugarRayRichardson
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12/21/2006  7:04 PM
Well many baseball teams and hockey teams have dress codes. The giants also have a dress code. So I guess basically every one is a racist. Most the companys I worked for had dress codes as well. I guess they were all racists, lol
I LOVED how Curry just exploded in the 4th, speaking as a fan of the Raptors, Curry looked well, scary I think is the word. Or Shaq-like Curry: 19.1ppg-7.3rpg-58%fg
Anji
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12/21/2006  7:27 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:




You're still not defining, or illustrating, what you consider to be the expression of racism in the NBA.
Well The new rules and the dress code, while not racist, yhey were put in place for racial reason. Because basketball players fight calls and it's veiwed as whinning. BUt kicking dirt on a Ump is showing heart. MOstly it's the language and ideas that are racial.

But these guys are millionaires, none of this effects them in the lease. It's us little people who are effected by this.
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
BlueSeats
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12/21/2006  9:13 PM
Posted by Anji:
Posted by BlueSeats:




You're still not defining, or illustrating, what you consider to be the expression of racism in the NBA.
Well The new rules and the dress code, while not racist, yhey were put in place for racial reason. Because basketball players fight calls and it's veiwed as whinning. BUt kicking dirt on a Ump is showing heart. MOstly it's the language and ideas that are racial.

But these guys are millionaires, none of this effects them in the lease. It's us little people who are effected by this.


I still don't get what you are saying. If this is how well you address a topic you consider "simple" I'd hate to get into it over something complicated.
Bippity10
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12/21/2006  9:52 PM
Posted by Anji:
Posted by BlueSeats:




You're still not defining, or illustrating, what you consider to be the expression of racism in the NBA.
Well The new rules and the dress code, while not racist, yhey were put in place for racial reason. Because basketball players fight calls and it's veiwed as whinning. BUt kicking dirt on a Ump is showing heart. MOstly it's the language and ideas that are racial.

But these guys are millionaires, none of this effects them in the lease. It's us little people who are effected by this.

If you kick dirt on an ump aren't you ejected.
I just hope that people will like me
simrud
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12/21/2006  10:16 PM
There is one major difference between the NFL, MLB, and the NBA. I'll leave hockey out of it because it’s a predominantly white sport. NFL is mostly black, and there many blacks in the MLB, albeit it is dominated by Hispanics, and the number of black players has gone down in the recent years.

NBA markets itself through its players, while NFL and MLB market through teams. So when the main marketing product of the NBA, which is players, act like crap, the league looks like crap. In the NFL, no one player is ever made bigger than his team, largely due to the way the league works in general, with their cap system and all.

Now, to say that racism is not part of the equation is naive, as it is always part of any situating. But to claim that this is an issue dominated by racism is stupid.

And by the way, I'm going to say it regardless of what people think, but the so called hip hop culture is counterproductive to the African American community in a variety of ways. It gives racists their ammunition in bunches and promotes a self defeatist attitude where success makes someone a "sellout". Regardless of how many bad things happened to blacks in America in the past, giving up and just blaming everything on the powers that be of today is not a solution. I certainly don't have an answer to the problem of being African American in a racist society, but the hip hop way is a dead-end.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
sebstar
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12/22/2006  1:45 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by Anji:

IT's because it the NBA is viewed as an black league populated by inner city hoodlums by suburban midde age whites. Pretty simple.


I don't see it as simple at all.

Lets project a hypothetical 10 years out from now. Hip Hop has become over-saturated and waned. The new cultural phenomenon is called "Hell Hop". It grews out the the white outer-suburbs and is based on Hells Angels fashions. Typical attire long pony tails and beards, leather vests with no shirts, big black boots full of chrome spikes with similar wrist bands, and of course, chains abound. The poster child of the movement is the dude from the Gimme Shelter concert who stabbed a Stones fan and provoked a riot.

Along with such dress the fashion also includes decked out Harley Davidson SABs (Suburban Assault Bikes) with sawed off shot guns in the rear boot (which they use with pride) and loud acid-metal music that is homophobic, misogynistic and not too subtlety anti-minority. Disrespect for authority goes without saying, and gang-bang brawls are not uncommon.

Shocking as it may seem, the NBA player of the near future embraces this "white" fashion/culture en mass, but the fans aren't sure they can relate as the more money the athletes make the more casual their approach to the game, and the more trouble they get in. Practice is treated like a joke by many, coaches who aren't hand picked by the stars are annual casualties, and drug and gun arrests are commonplace

The future black commissioner of the NBA has no interest in regulating society as a whole, but he does require that NBA players at least forgo the leather and spikes when traveling with the team and wear casual business attire or better.

Would that requirement be racially motivated?

[Edited by - BlueSeats on 12-20-2006 6:42 PM]

Well its good to see that you think chrome spikes and sawed off shotguns are equivalent to Air Jordan’s, oversized jeans, and polo shirts. Not only is it an exaggerated and comical comparison, but a hypothetical thesis where white and black people as a whole are viewed as interchangeable is generally flawed to begin with. The White culture has the power and resources to punish blacks in virtually all facets of life, not the other way around. If this had been a world controlled by the black male for hundreds of years, well...

In response to the pulse of the thread --- i.e the media's reaction to the NBA and David Stern's legislation of it. The NBA is so strongly identified with black culture that it is felt like an attack on black people. For example, over the years the NBA has been referred to as the "n*gga basketball association" and the like. Black people have a right to be suspicious. It could very well be a purely elitist attack on the hip hop culture, similar to conservatives reaction to the rock music of the '60s and the long hair of the hippies. But when race is thrown in the mix all hell breaks loose, and the white establishment has not earned the benefit of the doubt. In any event I'm laughing at the people in this thread who don’t connect the media overreaction of fights to the complexities of race relations.
And by the way, I'm going to say it regardless of what people think, but the so called hip hop culture is counterproductive to the African American community in a variety of ways. It gives racists their ammunition in bunches and promotes a self defeatist attitude where success makes someone a "sellout". Regardless of how many bad things happened to blacks in America in the past, giving up and just blaming everything on the powers that be of today is not a solution. I certainly don't have an answer to the problem of being African American in a racist society, but the hip hop way is a dead-end

What were racists' excuse before hip hop? Hip hop is the music born out of harsh economic conditions shaped by institutional and overt racism which celebrates, the hopes, dreams and dysfunctions of a culture whose back has been against the wall. Racists created the environment that birthed hip hop. Anyway, your take on "the hip hop" is really bad and backwards.

My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
BlueSeats
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12/22/2006  8:12 AM
Posted by sebstar:
Well its good to see that you think chrome spikes and sawed off shotguns are equivalent to Air Jordan’s, oversized jeans, and polo shirts. Not only is it an exaggerated and comical comparison, but a hypothetical thesis where white and black people as a whole are viewed as interchangeable is generally flawed to begin with. The White culture has the power and resources to punish blacks in virtually all facets of life, not the other way around. If this had been a world controlled by the black male for hundreds of years, well...


Dude, it wasn't meant to be a direct comparison. I could have used hillbilly wear, hippy wear, or any number of alternative styles. But as hard as I try to conjure an example that defies race you just wont let me.

The point is institutions have used dress codes as part of their image control since the history of man, an this includes within the same race.

Why has everyone dodged the example of Isiah instituting his stricter dress code on the Knicks before the league?

One guy who was significantly affected by the dress code was Tim Duncan. Whenever he was injured the guy was dressed in a flannel shirt like it was Sunday and he needed to rake his leaves. He was dressed "whiter" than me, but it was not the look the league wanted. How is that about race?

Why do blacks have to define themselves by dressing down? Do these guys?




As far as the media against the brawl, I didn't read the papers on the incident. I certainly don't doubt that somewhere in the dozens or hundreds of articles some goober said something dumb which we could agree on. But I've also asked repeatedly for someone to quote some such offensive passages but no one has stepped up. With all the times people have used words like "obvious" and "naive" I wouldn't think this should be such a difficult task.

I'm not trying to be right about this guys, I have no idea what's in the minds of Stern and others, but lets be able to discuss the subject without be so dismissive and charged about the whole thing.
TMS
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12/22/2006  10:38 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:


that's a nice suit.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Killa4luv
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12/22/2006  1:03 PM
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by Anji:

IT's because it the NBA is viewed as an black league populated by inner city hoodlums by suburban midde age whites. Pretty simple.


I don't see it as simple at all.

Lets project a hypothetical 10 years out from now. Hip Hop has become over-saturated and waned. The new cultural phenomenon is called "Hell Hop". It grews out the the white outer-suburbs and is based on Hells Angels fashions. Typical attire long pony tails and beards, leather vests with no shirts, big black boots full of chrome spikes with similar wrist bands, and of course, chains abound. The poster child of the movement is the dude from the Gimme Shelter concert who stabbed a Stones fan and provoked a riot.

Along with such dress the fashion also includes decked out Harley Davidson SABs (Suburban Assault Bikes) with sawed off shot guns in the rear boot (which they use with pride) and loud acid-metal music that is homophobic, misogynistic and not too subtlety anti-minority. Disrespect for authority goes without saying, and gang-bang brawls are not uncommon.

Shocking as it may seem, the NBA player of the near future embraces this "white" fashion/culture en mass, but the fans aren't sure they can relate as the more money the athletes make the more casual their approach to the game, and the more trouble they get in. Practice is treated like a joke by many, coaches who aren't hand picked by the stars are annual casualties, and drug and gun arrests are commonplace

The future black commissioner of the NBA has no interest in regulating society as a whole, but he does require that NBA players at least forgo the leather and spikes when traveling with the team and wear casual business attire or better.

Would that requirement be racially motivated?

[Edited by - BlueSeats on 12-20-2006 6:42 PM]

Well its good to see that you think chrome spikes and sawed off shotguns are equivalent to Air Jordan’s, oversized jeans, and polo shirts. Not only is it an exaggerated and comical comparison, but a hypothetical thesis where white and black people as a whole are viewed as interchangeable is generally flawed to begin with. The White culture has the power and resources to punish blacks in virtually all facets of life, not the other way around. If this had been a world controlled by the black male for hundreds of years, well...

In response to the pulse of the thread --- i.e the media's reaction to the NBA and David Stern's legislation of it. The NBA is so strongly identified with black culture that it is felt like an attack on black people. For example, over the years the NBA has been referred to as the "n*gga basketball association" and the like. Black people have a right to be suspicious. It could very well be a purely elitist attack on the hip hop culture, similar to conservatives reaction to the rock music of the '60s and the long hair of the hippies. But when race is thrown in the mix all hell breaks loose, and the white establishment has not earned the benefit of the doubt. In any event I'm laughing at the people in this thread who don’t connect the media overreaction of fights to the complexities of race relations.
And by the way, I'm going to say it regardless of what people think, but the so called hip hop culture is counterproductive to the African American community in a variety of ways. It gives racists their ammunition in bunches and promotes a self defeatist attitude where success makes someone a "sellout". Regardless of how many bad things happened to blacks in America in the past, giving up and just blaming everything on the powers that be of today is not a solution. I certainly don't have an answer to the problem of being African American in a racist society, but the hip hop way is a dead-end

What were racists' excuse before hip hop? Hip hop is the music born out of harsh economic conditions shaped by institutional and overt racism which celebrates, the hopes, dreams and dysfunctions of a culture whose back has been against the wall. Racists created the environment that birthed hip hop. Anyway, your take on "the hip hop" is really bad and backwards.

What you said here is beautiful. I mainly agree with Sinrud about Hip Hop, it is mainly negative and self-defeating. But the idea that hip hop music represents the whole of black thinkning (which Sim is basically saying)is really comical and untrue. Much of this new hip hop is very very bad for my community though.

Blueseats, you are looking for a smoking gun and there isnt one. But I say that the NBA put the dresscode in place specifically because of the hip hop style of black players. you have no response.

Is Isiah's dress code in place for the same reason? I don't think so, look at the players on the squad when he did it. Eisenspoon, Allan houston, Kurt Thomas? I don't think these guys were wearing this hip hop fashion. Never saw Allan with a gold chain and baggy pants. You have to look at who the intended targets of these rule changes are to gauge intent.

So would you like to answer my question now, do you think the NBA dress code was aimed at the black players with the Hip Hop style?

The Isiah vs. Stern thing is an interesting debate from a hypothetical level, but their applications are different when you look at the players they effected.

BlueSeats
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12/22/2006  1:29 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

Blueseats, you are looking for a smoking gun and there isnt one. But I say that the NBA put the dresscode in place specifically because of the hip hop style of black players. you have no response.

Killa, I've been asking you and everyone else in this thread to be as explicit and specific in what your charges are here and if anyone was doing so I missed it. Now that I see you asking me a direct question I will gladly answer it AGAIN, as I believe most of my answers indirectly have already.

I think Stern implemented the dress code for image control. That the athletes in question happen to be black is secondary to the concern.

To wit, which image do you think the league would prefer for it's stars:




Is Isiah's dress code in place for the same reason? I don't think so, look at the players on the squad when he did it. Eisenspoon, Allan houston, Kurt Thomas? I don't think these guys were wearing this hip hop fashion. Never saw Allan with a gold chain and baggy pants. You have to look at who the intended targets of these rule changes are to gauge intent.

What am I missing? You appear to be contradicting yourself. You tell me Stern imposed his code because of hip hop, but then tell me Isiah put in a stricter code even though he had no such wearers on his squad.

So how about you tell us why you believe Isiah DID do it?
So would you like to answer my question now, do you think the NBA dress code was aimed at the black players with the Hip Hop style?

No, I think it was to raise the "professionalism" of the league, and it's only because the league is 80% black that it appears to be against that race. If it were 80% white and he didn't want them in flip flops, surfer shorts and reefer T-shirts it would appear to be reverse racism. If it were 80% asian and it were against red headbands and nunchucks it would appear anti Asian.

I hope I've answered your question sufficiently, now please do so with mine. Why is it okay for Isiah to implement a stricter dress code than Stern?

[Edited by - BlueSeats on 12-22-2006 1:33 PM]
TMS
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USA
12/22/2006  1:38 PM
that chick looks like she needs to eat about 10 Big Macs.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
playa2
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12/22/2006  1:44 PM
One of the reasons they might have wanted a dress code is so they could distinguish between tag alongs(posse) and the professional players. Remember we all look alike.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
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