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oohah
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12/14/2006  8:28 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Bip - it starts with enlightened and motivated ownership

For me, the perfect owner of the Knicks would be Bill Bradley. Intelligent beyond imagination (Rhodes Scholar) and bleeds orange and blue.

can't he get financing from Spike Lee and Woody Allen?

My dream General Manager?

Ernie Grunfeld. Damn you Van Gundy.

My dream Head Coach?

Mark Jackson. He reminds me of the boss of a crew.

But it will never happen

I would love to see Mark Jackson get a chance to coach in the NBA. It's probably better that he starts somewhere besides New York, look how we ran him out of town the first time around--now we are still looking for a playmaker/floor general--13-14 years later!

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
AUTOADVERT
PhilinLA
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12/14/2006  8:35 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Basketball IQ Test

Quick - Name one NBA GM who has been as bad as Isiah has been with the Knicks and kept his job?
How long did the Scotty Stirling era last? He was flipping awful.

http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
babyKnicks
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12/14/2006  8:39 PM
did someone mention the clippers?
Also, Danny Ainge ain't looking too good in Boston (that's about the same as long).
memphis has been brought up, they have the same playoff record as Marbury.
if isiah has been gawd awful, then 15 other GMs have been worst or have done nothing, which is worst.
Let's go Knicks. That's amare
nyk4ever
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12/14/2006  11:53 PM
I love the Knicks young players, I still don't think there is one players that we can "build" around though. Curry has been nice, but he's not a franchise player and neither are Frye or Lee. If the plan is to build around someone, we're going about it the wrong way.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
misterearl
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12/15/2006  8:22 AM
nyk4ever - can you define rebuilding the "right" way?

what franchise would be your best model?

[Edited by - misterearl on 12-15-2006 08:32 AM]
once a knick always a knick
Bippity10
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12/15/2006  10:11 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Billy King for the Sixers has been there how long?

Elgin Baylor has been GM of the Clippers forever. They have a checkered past but a bright future... but, my oh my, have they given away enough talent?

The Bulls have been in rebuild mode for seven years and haven't won a thing

I'm jus' sayin'

That's what I mean by low standards. Our standards are so low that we are using failures as a measurement for where we are. I don't care if these other guys are failures or if the Bulls have taken 7 years. We need to raise our standards.
I just hope that people will like me
islesfan
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12/15/2006  10:11 AM
Posted by misterearl:

nyk4ever - can you define rebuilding the "right" way?

what franchise would be your best model?

[Edited by - misterearl on 12-15-2006 08:32 AM]

I'm going to go with the Bulls.

Get under the cap.

Collect good young players.

Find a sucker like Isiah.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
misterearl
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12/15/2006  10:28 AM
bippity - raise the standards to exactly what following the tenure of Scott Layden?

Then again, what franchise - with a similar inherited cap conundrum - would you cite as the model to emulate?



once a knick always a knick
nyk4ever
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12/15/2006  10:31 AM
Posted by misterearl:

nyk4ever - can you define rebuilding the "right" way?

what franchise would be your best model?

[Edited by - misterearl on 12-15-2006 08:32 AM]

Heres the problem. You're asking me to define "rebuilding the right way" when you already have an idea in your head that the way Isiah has done it is great. You're going to disagree with whatever say, so really, why even bother asking me? Hell, I guess I will though.

I know you love doing this, so here you go.
Quick, name one team besides the Pistons that have won a championship without a franchise player.

Eeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrr. Times up.

Guess what, the Knicks young players like Curry, Frye, Lee, Nate are good enough to keep them from being the worst team in the league and getting that franchise player with the #1 pick but also bad enough to still keep them in the lottery, but in the 8-13 range and not getting any franchise player. Also, I like Curry, but trading 2 lottery picks for a player that is NOT a franchise player makes absolutely ZERO sense to me. NONE. If you're trying to rebuild, you don't throw away all your assets on a player whose good but not going to be a franchise.Sure bring up the fact that Shaq was traded to the Lakers, that's fine but its also a once in a lifetime move that the Lakers were lucky enough to take part of.

So here we go, now here comes the part where you say

"but NYK Dolan won't let the team be bad enough to get the #1 pick in the lottery!"

Well guess what, do you think Dolan let Isiah be #4 in the lottery last year(and not a pick for that matter) and #8 in the lottery the year before? So now last year and this year when tanking would have been the best option, we can't even tank because we didn't have our lotto pick last year and we don't have our lotto pick this year. The only teams that shouldn't have lotto picks are teams that are the true contenders for a championship and we're nowhere close.

This idea that that Isiah would/will get fired if the team isnt in the playoffs, is ridiculous, they haven't been in the playoffs the last 2 years and the year they did make it should hardly count since we got SWEPT by the freaking Nets of all teams. So now considering the fact that we got swept by our crosstown rivals one year and then in the lottery the other 2 years and we STILL don't have a franchise player, this merits FIRING if you ask me.

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
misterearl
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12/15/2006  10:34 AM
nyk4ever - i just asked a simple question.

Forget Isiah Thomas for a second. This is NOT about defending him. I could care less about going around in circles over your opinion of leadership. I want to know what YOU consider the model franchise.

I just want to know one thing:

Can you define rebuilding the "right" way?
once a knick always a knick
Rich
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12/15/2006  10:34 AM
But the Knicks didn't tank with Layden, and traded the #6 pick and Camby for an injured McDyess.

Isiah's presence has only continued the pattern.
misterearl
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12/15/2006  10:36 AM
>>Isiah's presence has only continued the pattern.

The pattern of trading a fan favorite and picks for older, injured players?

help me out here
once a knick always a knick
islesfan
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12/15/2006  10:37 AM
And Layden so richly deserved to be canned.

As does Isiah.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Bippity10
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12/15/2006  10:38 AM
Posted by misterearl:

bippity - raise the standards to exactly what following the tenure of Scott Layden?

Then again, what franchise - with a similar inherited cap conundrum - would you cite as the model to emulate?

1.) Don't use the fans as an excuse for losing
2.) Don't use LB as an excuse for your losing
3.) Don't allow your PG and coach to fight daily in the press
4.) If you fire a coach, even if you hate them lead them out of the Garden with dignity to show that you are the bigger man instead of leading them out with security guards.
5.) Don't allow your players to use a coach as an excuse for quitting.
6.) Don't allow your players to make excuses period for a lack of performance.
7.) Don't get over the cap to begin with.
8.) Don't sign players because a coach tells you to

I could go on and on. You don't need a model to raise your standard. You just need common sense. But if you want a model then you can use about 10 teams in this league today. From where we were we could have let the contracts run out, held onto draft picks and still winded up in a similar position we are today.

My question to you Mr. Earl is what is our organizational philosophy? What is our standard? What type of players are we targeting(young is not an answer)?Does anyone know?
I just hope that people will like me
misterearl
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12/15/2006  10:39 AM
what ten teams are your model?
once a knick always a knick
Rich
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12/15/2006  10:40 AM
Posted by misterearl:


The pattern of trading a fan favorite and picks for older, injured players?

help me out here

The pattern Knick GMs making short-sighted trades in which they give up more assets than they have to because the idea of a complete rebuild has been an anathema to Dolan.
misterearl
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12/15/2006  10:40 AM
bippity - try decaf and take a deep breath
once a knick always a knick
nyk4ever
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12/15/2006  10:41 AM
Posted by misterearl:

nyk4ever - i just asked a simple question.

Forget Isiah Thomas for a second. This is NOT about defending him. I could care less about going around in circles over your opinion of leadership. I want to know what YOU consider the model franchise.

I just want to know one thing:

Can you define rebuilding the "right" way?

The Orlando Magic have rebuilt that franchise in 3 years.

I believe the Bulls had the right idea and John Paxson has done a masterful job since Jerry Krause was fired and really rebuilt that team.

The Spurs did a good job by tanking when they had to to draft Duncan.

The Heat did a wonderful job of rebuilding when they traded for Odom, drafted Butler and drafted one of the top players in the league, Dwayne Wade. Forget about Shaq, they were already a damn good team before they even got him.

Kiki Vanderweghe did a great job of rebuilding in Denver with Carmelo, Nene, Camby


There are plenty teams to look at...

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
islesfan
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12/15/2006  10:42 AM
Name ten teams that have "rebuilt" like Isiah and have had contended for a championship.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Bippity10
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12/15/2006  10:42 AM
Posted by misterearl:

bippity - try decaf and take a deep breath

Good response. Insightful.

What was wrong with my post? There was no anger or malice in the post, just good points.
I just hope that people will like me
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Let build around our yoots and lets get The Garden rockin again!
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