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No really, it was Larry Browns fault last year
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Masterplan
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12/7/2006  10:47 AM
Posted by mythfaze:

Perhaps instead of making him GM three years ago, we could have put him in charge of the draft for us.

and in charge of west side chicago reppin
AUTOADVERT
TMS
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12/7/2006  10:55 AM
OK Solace, if you want to engage in throwing personal insults at people for having a differing opinion, be that way... you yourself acknowledged that Isiah's draft picks have been good, so that would qualify you as 1 of those same idiots you're making fun of, just so you know... last i checked, drafting players was a big part of a GM's role.
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mythfaze
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12/7/2006  10:57 AM
Posted by Masterplan:
Posted by mythfaze:

Perhaps instead of making him GM three years ago, we could have put him in charge of the draft for us.

and in charge of west side chicago reppin

His two strengths. I hate it when he talks like he's a New Yorker, talking about what New York wants and what kind of a town New York is and what you can and can't do here. You're not one of us, so shut up. I'd like him a whole lot better if he never spoke.
Solace
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12/7/2006  10:58 AM
Posted by TMS:

OK Solace, if you want to engage in throwing personal insults at people for having a differing opinion, be that way... you yourself acknowledged that Isiah's draft picks have been good, so that would qualify you as 1 of those same idiots you're making fun of, just so you know... last i checked, drafting players was a big part of a GM's role.

I said for the most part. His one lottery pick, he screwed up badly. As for the idiot comment, it wasn't directed at you.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
newyorknewyork
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12/7/2006  4:39 PM
You guys know I have supported Isiah. I couldn't stand Layden since I knew he would be happy to just be mediocre. Isiahs moves haven't worked out and he has made bad moves along with some good. But I know his goal was to try and make the knicks a contender. Bottom line though is he hasn't produced results.
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Bippity10
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12/7/2006  5:19 PM
I don't know about all the talk about drafting adn trading and free-agent signings, blah, blah, blah. Isiah has his strengths and weaknesses just like any other GM. But one thing seals it for me. Anytime your team is a laughingstock, it doesn't matter what your strenghts are. You need to go.
I just hope that people will like me
Bonn1997
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12/7/2006  7:13 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Rich:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Rich:

You live for this.

You mean for getting one day closer to getting my Knicks back and hope for a brighter future?

You're Goddamn right I do.

With Dolan and Mills making the decisions? As if.

No, Mills goes too. And we can pray that Dolan's daddy takes the team away from him.

Then hopefully they get someone in here who has a clue.
So then why are you in a war against Isiah when it seems you know that replacing Mills and Dolan is at least as important?

Why fight wars you can't win?

My view, is why fight wars where "winning" won't make a meaningful difference? I don't see this team doing well with any GM if it's run by Dolan and Mills.
eViL
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12/7/2006  7:19 PM
Bonn, if you're right, then being a Knicks fan is practically meaningless. Most of us will be holding on to the glory days where we were close to championships, but still lost. The few old-timers here at least got to see some title teams. That's a pretty bleak outlook. It's almost as pessimistic as it gets. Boy you sure have changed. Even Islesfan is optimistic that a new GM can do something.
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Bonn1997
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12/7/2006  8:52 PM
Posted by eViL:

Bonn, if you're right, then being a Knicks fan is practically meaningless.
I just post here because I like the people and I also like watching some of the young players. But I don't expect the Knicks to go deep in the playoffs in my lifetime (and I'm only 27 and healthy). I'm just wondering how many more GMs we have to go through before people realize the GM is just a symptom of the real problem, not the real problem itself.
Panos
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12/7/2006  9:20 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:


My view, is why fight wars where "winning" won't make a meaningful difference? I don't see this team doing well with any GM if it's run by Dolan and Mills.

That's silly. They can't possibly be so incompetant that they cannot do the only single act
that is required of them: find and hire a GM with a proven track record. That's it.
They have no other responsibilities. Why do you think that is so impossible?
Rich
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12/7/2006  9:25 PM
Posted by Panos:
Posted by Bonn1997:


My view, is why fight wars where "winning" won't make a meaningful difference? I don't see this team doing well with any GM if it's run by Dolan and Mills.

That's silly. They can't possibly be so incompetant that they cannot do the only single act
that is required of them: find and hire a GM with a proven track record. That's it.
They have no other responsibilities. Why do you think that is so impossible?

Because Mills and Dolan will likely make the decision. One is incompetent; the other is an idiot.
BlueSeats
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12/7/2006  10:04 PM
Posted by Panos:
That's silly. They can't possibly be so incompetant that they cannot do the only single act
that is required of them: find and hire a GM with a proven track record. That's it.
They have no other responsibilities. Why do you think that is so impossible?



Most thought all they had to do was hire a coach with a winning track record, but a couple of HOFers, in Lenny Wilkens and Larry Brown, might tell us otherwise.

islesfan
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12/7/2006  11:34 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by Panos:
That's silly. They can't possibly be so incompetant that they cannot do the only single act
that is required of them: find and hire a GM with a proven track record. That's it.
They have no other responsibilities. Why do you think that is so impossible?



Most thought all they had to do was hire a coach with a winning track record, but a couple of HOFers, in Lenny Wilkens and Larry Brown, might tell us otherwise.

Well when you have a Team President and GM that sabotages them by letting Starbury continue to be a cancer, there's not much those HOF coaches can do.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Solace
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12/8/2006  8:47 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

My view, is why fight wars where "winning" won't make a meaningful difference? I don't see this team doing well with any GM if it's run by Dolan and Mills.

If you feel that way, why even be a Knick fan at all? You may be convinced that no GM could turn this franchise around; I'm not. Get the right guy in there, who understands that ANY team in our boat has one choice: rebuild and clear salaries. And suddenly it's doable.

Dolan wants playoffs right now. But after 6 years, he's shown some indication of realizing that you can't just buy your way into the playoffs, no matter how hard you try. The next GM will get less flexibility than Isiah had, which means he won't be able to run the team amok, and might actually come in with a plan that goes further than "let's get 12 athletic players".
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Panos
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12/8/2006  9:04 AM
The next GM will get less flexibility than Isiah had, which means he won't be able to run the team amok, and might actually come in with a plan that goes further than "let's get 12 athletic players".

See here's what I don't understand. I don't understand why you and a
lot of posters think its a great thing that a future GM will have less
spending flexibility.
It's not the flexibility that is the problem. It's not Dolan who gave
the flexibility that's the problem. IT IS THE GM THAT ABUSED IT WITHOUT A CONSISTENT PLAN that is the problem. No one forced
Isiah to go out and spend STUPIDLY. The flexibility is a great asset
if someone is disciplined to use it only when it makes sense -- like
to land your franchise player (or two).

What you don't do is:
- trade for a slouch underachiever making 14MM named Tim Thomas.
- trade for MoT getting paid 9MM each of 2 years because he is an expiring contract in 2 years.
- trade for Malik Rose for 3 years just to get 2 #30 picks.
- in the same trade, trade away your ONLY CENTER so that you are forced to:
- sign JJ, and then give him 5MM/year for FIVE FREAKIN YEARS.
- trade for Francis and his max contract (3 years)when you already have the same freakin' player ON A MAX CONTRACT.


I'll leave the Marbury trade out of it, because although he is definitely overpaid and in retrospect it turned out to be regrettable, at least he was trying to get franchise level talent in the deal, even tho it turns out that Marbury is not that.

If Isiah had reserved his use of Dolan's millions on good deals, we would be ahead of the game. Instead, we're hamstrung and are stuck with sh!t contracts for at least the next 3 years.


I'm not going to rant on about Eddy Curry, because that trade falls into a different category. (I don't mind the money spent on him, or the chance taken on him, its the failure to protect picks that was STUPID!)

[Edited by - panos on 12-08-2006 09:07 AM]
Silverfuel
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12/8/2006  9:13 AM
Good post Panos.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Bonn1997
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12/8/2006  10:38 AM
Posted by Panos:
Posted by Bonn1997:


My view, is why fight wars where "winning" won't make a meaningful difference? I don't see this team doing well with any GM if it's run by Dolan and Mills.

That's silly. They can't possibly be so incompetant that they cannot do the only single act
that is required of them: find and hire a GM with a proven track record. That's it.
They have no other responsibilities. Why do you think that is so impossible?
They're competent at acheiving their goal of making money. They're incompetent at achieving YOUR goal (and mine) of building a championship contending team. But they don't care about your goals and mine.
Panos
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12/8/2006  10:54 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Panos:
Posted by Bonn1997:


My view, is why fight wars where "winning" won't make a meaningful difference? I don't see this team doing well with any GM if it's run by Dolan and Mills.

That's silly. They can't possibly be so incompetant that they cannot do the only single act
that is required of them: find and hire a GM with a proven track record. That's it.
They have no other responsibilities. Why do you think that is so impossible?
They're competent at acheiving their goal of making money. They're incompetent at achieving YOUR goal (and mine) of building a championship contending team. But they don't care about your goals and mine.

You're wrong. At least competing for a championship will make them more money.
Panos
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12/8/2006  12:48 PM
Wow, I have a history of killing threads. Make my post, and then... crickets.
Strange
Solace
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12/8/2006  12:56 PM
Posted by Panos:

Wow, I have a history of killing threads. Make my post, and then... crickets.
Strange

I think this thread was earlier dying before you chimed in, for some reason. I actually agree with your points, which is why I say most of it falls on the GM. He was responsible for the trades that were made. A new GM will not be allowed to spend out of control. That's good, because it prevents another madman like Isiah to finding a way to getting us up to a $200 million payroll, and still being a 23 win team. It's a security blanket. You're right that with a competent GM, it's not a concern. We haven't had a competent GM since before Layden. And you do see what Isiah has done to the franchise. The fact that some people still buy into his act is mystifying. Glad you're more reasonable.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
No really, it was Larry Browns fault last year

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