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Just when I support Isiah.......
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joec32033
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12/6/2006  1:56 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by nixluva:

You guys aren't getting the POINT. You don't want to play Lee and Jared for long stretches at the same time with Curry. I don't care that Lee hit some jumpers. If you think teams won't just give him those and keep Curry on lock down you're crazy. Lee won't keep hitting those at a high enough percentage and we lose the fouls that Curry draws. It's a purely logical decision. You can't give teams two players they can leave in order to double down on Curry. Balkman get's left open a lot for the same reason. Isiah is thinking clearly on this. He's looking at the film and can see how teams change their D, depending on the lineup he has out there. In addition Lee will help bring back the bench, which has done nothing since he left it.

Who is saying that Jeffries has to start? I think most are just saying they want Lee to remain in the starting lineup and have both Frye AND Jeffries come off the bench. I know I do.


My lineup

Marbury-because now we are switching (again) to a more half court based offense, and as I said before Steph is better in the half court and Francis is better in a running offense.
Q
Jefferies
Lee
Curry

[Edited by - joec32033 on 12-06-2006 1:57 PM]
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King1
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12/6/2006  2:06 PM
You say Jefferies has been better than Lee in practice. He must have had a hell of a practice yesterday since that was his first day back. Put Lee on the second team and then we will bitch when they get down 15 points again and the 2nd team bails them out.
newyorknewyork
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12/6/2006  2:23 PM
I believe the Knicks have more potential with Frye in the starting lineup at PF. But Lee is the safer start especially since Frye has been struggling. We would be able to get good defense from 2-4 with a Richardson, Jefferies, Lee starting lineup.

But I do agree with nixluv with the fact that if Frye got it together then the highpost-lowpost tandem that he would provide with Eddie Curry would be very effective. Problem is though that Frye might be to stiff at PF especially playing perimeter defense vs an agile PF who can put the ball on the floor. We will see. Frye needs to be the type of player on offense that can put the ball on the floor in the high post, nail jumpers, set good screens, make good passes.

That Francis trade is really looking ugly and is going to look worse. With Francis, Marbury, Nate, Crawford, Balkman. Balkman is going to have to play backup PF, Crawford, SF, Francis SG, Nate PG. With Lee at center as the backup unit.

I don't question Isiahs willingness to win though. Thats one thing I don't have to question. Winning will make him look good. Losing will make him look bad. There is no way he can lose and look good. So I don't get how anyone can say he is only doing these moves to look good. How can he look good if these moves are going to make him lose?? He believes that this give him the best chance to win.
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King1
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12/6/2006  2:39 PM
So if you have a 5 year contract you play the guy with potential, if you have a 3 month contract you play the guy that is producing. Frye cant put the ball on the ground, and he cant pass, so what you want him to be, and what he really does is two different things. Lee is beating Frye in every category so until Frye beats him out he shouldnt start, but when you're as good as the Knicks have been and won so many games you can do unconventional things like start a guy on potential. I have no idea why I would judge what IT has done for the Knicks.
holfresh
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12/6/2006  3:18 PM
As well as Lee has played he isn't ready for prime time yet...I think this was clearly shown the two games played against bigger stud power forwards in the East...Weed and Bosh showed that Lee needed a little more seasoning at PF before being thrown to the wolves...The last thing you need right now is Lee having confidence problems...

Frye plays a stronger PF and man up better against those guys...

For all those who happened to miss it...JARED JEFFRIES WON'T START WHEN HE GETS BACK FROM INJURY!!!!!...Q is head and shoulders better than this kid, hands down....Q is a better man on man defender than JJ....

I know you guys might have missed this one as well...Zeke said the MARBS HAS BEEN THE KNICKS'BEST PERIMETER DEFENDER THE LAST FIVE GAMES....

Seriously, You guys are insane to think that Curry play is somehow due to Lee being in the starting lineup, INSANE...Somehow, Lee being in the lineup helps Curry's post moves and keeps his out of foul trouble...Amazing...



[Edited by - holfresh on 12-06-2006 3:19 PM]
BlueSeats
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12/6/2006  3:28 PM
I think Isiah wants Frye in the starting lineup with Eddy so he can play small-ball with the bench.

He's not worried about where Lee fits in because he can work with either unit, but what's best for Frye is the half-court sets.
GodSaveTheKnicks
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12/6/2006  3:29 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by GodSaveTheKnicks:

Ultimately what will save Zeke's arse is winning games. If you think he's more concerned about his ego/image, etc...you may be right but...

Either his priorities look something like this:

1. Win games
2. Save my a$s by making myself look good

or this:

1. Save my a$s by making myself look good
2. Win games

He gets to see these guys everyday in practice and during games. Assuming that Lee> Jeffries, there is no way Zeke should have any reason to give Jeffries more minutes than Lee if Lee gives the team a better shot at winning games.

Unless he's too dumb to see that Lee is clearly better than Jeffries in contributing towards Ws. Which might be the case.

I'm going to try to keep an open mind till I see a few games with whatever lineup Zeke throws out there once Jeffries comes back.

he just gave jeffries $30 mil.
dlee is the 30th pick.

I understand that if he sings a player for $30 M and then benches him for a 2nd year player it makes Isiah look bad but wouldn't playing someone based on contract vs. merit results in losses and make him look even worse?
Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
BasketballJones
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12/6/2006  3:32 PM
Posted by holfresh:

Seriously, You guys are insane to think that Curry play is somehow due to Lee being in the starting lineup, INSANE...Somehow, Lee being in the lineup helps Curry's post moves and keeps his out of foul trouble...Amazing...


Curry is not better because of Lee.....
Curry is not better because of Lee.....
Curry is not better because of Lee.....
Curry is not better because of Lee.....
Curry is not better because of Lee.....
Curry is not better because of Lee.....
https:// It's not so hard.
King1
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12/6/2006  3:34 PM
Sheed was 2-9 in that game. Did I miss the first game of the year when Warrick had he way with Frye and Lee shut him down? Bosh got Lee good but to say Frye is a better defender is crazy. Lee is a better than Frye right now he has outplayed him the first 25 games and doesnt have the durablilty issues.
nyk4ever
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12/6/2006  3:35 PM
Posted by holfresh:

As well as Lee has played he isn't ready for prime time yet...I think this was clearly shown the two games played against bigger stud power forwards in the East...Weed and Bosh showed that Lee needed a little more seasoning at PF before being thrown to the wolves...The last thing you need right now is Lee having confidence problems...

Frye plays a stronger PF and man up better against those guys...

For all those who happened to miss it...JARED JEFFRIES WON'T START WHEN HE GETS BACK FROM INJURY!!!!!...Q is head and shoulders better than this kid, hands down....Q is a better man on man defender than JJ....

I know you guys might have missed this one as well...Zeke said the MARBS HAS BEEN THE KNICKS'BEST PERIMETER DEFENDER THE LAST FIVE GAMES....

Seriously, You guys are insane to think that Curry play is somehow due to Lee being in the starting lineup, INSANE...Somehow, Lee being in the lineup helps Curry's post moves and keeps his out of foul trouble...Amazing...



[Edited by - holfresh on 12-06-2006 3:19 PM]

Reality to Holfresh.

Holfresh you there?

Holfresh?

This is reality, we're calling you back

Holfresh come back!

This is reality, please come back!
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
King1
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12/6/2006  3:38 PM
Holfresh please tell me what Frye has done better than lee this year? Frye is the one in the jar passing up shots and not getting things done. I guess IT word is gospel, I am going to keep my mouth shut I guess second guessing It is like second guessing, Red, Phil jackson, and Brar Bryant.
BRIGGS
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12/6/2006  3:40 PM
D le deserves to start he has EARNED it through his play. With Frye out and Lee catching his back--Curry has gone from medicore player to all-star. Why change that? I hope we LOSE games to show the effect if they realy intend to sit D L at the expense of the sticks. Leave Curry as is with Lee--I think both can flourish with big minutes
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newyorknewyork
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12/6/2006  3:57 PM
Posted by King1:

So if you have a 5 year contract you play the guy with potential, if you have a 3 month contract you play the guy that is producing. Frye cant put the ball on the ground, and he cant pass, so what you want him to be, and what he really does is two different things. Lee is beating Frye in every category so until Frye beats him out he shouldnt start, but when you're as good as the Knicks have been and won so many games you can do unconventional things like start a guy on potential. I have no idea why I would judge what IT has done for the Knicks.

Truthfully all Frye has to really do at this point would be to knock down his jumpers, and set good screens which he showed he can do last yr. All that other stuff can come with more experience in this league. Thats the beauty of only being in the leage for a 1yr & 1/4. He isn't Chris Webber with his passing ability, but he isn't bad either. I love Lee, but like I said before I can see one reason why Isiah would start Frye is because he has more potential as a high post player to Eddie Curry's low post game. Frye can draw a big out of the paint to free Curry up, or Curry can draw 2 bigs under the paint while Frye nails open jumpers. Isiah just got to make sure Lee gets his mins.

It comes down to playing matchups correctly anyway. He gotta put Lee & Frye in position to be the most effective in there matchups. There will be guys that Frye's skills will be needed in a matchup. And there will be a guys that Lee's skills will be needed in a matchup. Isiah plays them correctly then there is no problems.
https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
holfresh
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12/6/2006  7:21 PM

I must say you guys are being short sighted on this issue...Do yourselves a favor, Stop looking at Frye as the guy that is standing in DLee's way to being a good NBA PF...They are both assets of the NYKnicks and should be used as such...Frye in the starting line make sense because to add two dimensions to the game that David doesn't at this point in time...He stretches the Defense a bit more which will help Curry in the post...He will add the high post pick and roll in the offense now that Marbs seems to have his legs back...They can run a double post offense making it difficult to double either big men in the post...The ball can be swung around the perimeter and re-post on either side...Fyre before going down has shown he can block a few shots and seems to be a decent weak side help defender in the post...

Guys both of these players are NY Knickerbockers and can help us down the road...DLee will get his minutes...It just seems like we can be more of a threat with Frye in the lineup..I'm sure that is what Zeke is thinking...I could be wrong on all this, I guess we will see..
misterearl
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12/6/2006  7:27 PM
Curry is better because the guards have been instructed to get him the damn ball.

Having said that, I've had a crush on David Lee since he won the high school slam dunk contest with the jersey-over-the-head-off-the-dribble-move-from-the baseline.

but that's just me

Frye can play. He and Lee are best friends.

It will work itself out.
once a knick always a knick
gunsnewing
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12/6/2006  7:38 PM
juat when I was feeling a little optimistic the only reason Frye is starting is becaue Isiah wants his value to increase and since he hyped him up so much he kinda has to start him
holfresh
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12/6/2006  7:39 PM

Yeah I'm sure Frye having a great rookie season and being in the running for rookie of the year had nothing to do with it...
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