Posted by tomverve:


Curry isn't the fastest, tallest, or highest leaping guy on the court. He will almost certainly never be a great shotblocker because he doesn't have the physical tools to be a great shotblocker. He may improve his D but he will likely never be great at it. That's not necessarily an awful thing and it certainly doesn't negate the positive things Curry brings. You can be a good, effective player despite having flaws in your game (I think that's what Kenny Smith was trying to say). Tyson Chandler likely will never be more than a passable player on offense at best, but ask the Hornets how they like him so far.

I think your stressing my point though Tom. Both guys you mentioned are defensive players. Defense wins you basketball games.

Posted by Anji:

Damn, the same suspects..........SMH!!! If there is a UK Mafia, I want to start a UK WBC, Wett Blanket Committe. I nominate NYK4ever and joec32033 for Treasury!!!!!!

Why don't you actually TRY reading the posts and the other topics in the forum. Joe and I have been giving Eddy a great deal of praise for his offensive game and where its come from since even the beginning of this year.

Posted by tomverve:

Is Ben Wallace's defense enough for you? Sure he's a beast on D, but he gives it all back on the other end by being a liability on offense. It's a shame, the lazy bum never worked on his offensive game over his entire career. What a waste.

Curry isn't the fastest, tallest, or highest leaping guy on the court. He will almost certainly never be a great shotblocker because he doesn't have the physical tools to be a great shotblocker. He may improve his D but he will likely never be great at it. That's not necessarily an awful thing and it certainly doesn't negate the positive things Curry brings. You can be a good, effective player despite having flaws in your game (I think that's what Kenny Smith was trying to say). Tyson Chandler likely will never be more than a passable player on offense at best, but ask the Hornets how they like him so far.

I'm surprised you had this positive a view of Curry. He's so bad in all facets of the game except scoring close to the basket (and he's an okay rebounder). If you want to go by stats, his PER, net PER, and +/- are mediocre.

Posted by tomverve:

Is Ben Wallace's defense enough for you? Sure he's a beast on D, but he gives it all back on the other end by being a liability on offense. It's a shame, the lazy bum never worked on his offensive game over his entire career. What a waste.

Curry isn't the fastest, tallest, or highest leaping guy on the court. He will almost certainly never be a great shotblocker because he doesn't have the physical tools to be a great shotblocker. He may improve his D but he will likely never be great at it. That's not necessarily an awful thing and it certainly doesn't negate the positive things Curry brings. You can be a good, effective player despite having flaws in your game (I think that's what Kenny Smith was trying to say). Tyson Chandler likely will never be more than a passable player on offense at best, but ask the Hornets how they like him so far.

Excellent point, Tom. Thats why this is a TEAM game. Its up to managment to continue to put complimentary pieces around Curry.

Curry is a big guy and will never be great at guarding the pick and roll (Shaq got killed fro yrs by the Jazz with th pick and roll play.) Ewing was a good rebounder and okay defensively but never great. However, he had one of the best help defenders in the league at his side in Oak which made Ewing look better. Curry is being exposed because he's literally on an island by his lonesome. Theres know one to cover for him here.

BTW, Rebounding is a huge part of defense and last few games Curry has done a deceant job of that.

Our pick and roll coverage was much worse with Eddy out. Its all about recognition, trust and rotating. 2 plays in a row the griz ran pick and rolls. Lee showed big on the guard. Their big man then was left wide open for dunks after balkman came late

Posted by earthmansurfer:

Perhaps David is a part of the reason for Curry's sudden increase in his rebounding rate? Maybe Davide can bring to the table some of the things that Oakly did. Man, what a good duo.

Again, is it any coincidence that good things happen when David is starting (last years 6 game win streak and Eddy's improved play)?

EMS

I don't think its coincidence at all. I have been an advocate of David starting since last year because of what he brings to the the starting lineup both rebounding and hustle wise. I think Lee's contributions are making life easier for Eddy, because he's not working as hard as he had to on defense, so it's giving him more energy for the offensive end.

Also, I think Lee does an excellent job of boxing-out and that could be helping Eddy's rebounding numbers as well. This isn't to say that Eddy isn't improving at himself, he must be, but I think Lee's all around contributions are really helping Curry in all facets.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 12-05-2006 10:42 AM]

Posted by tomverve:

Posted by Bonn1997:

I'm surprised you had this positive a view of Curry. He's so bad in all facets of the game except scoring close to the basket (and he's an okay rebounder). If you want to go by stats, his PER, net PER, and +/- are mediocre.

I didn't promote a positive view of Curry there... I was refuting poorly constructed negative views of Curry which isn't the same thing.

As for the stats-- I don't take much stock in defensive PER or +/- since there are so many confounds there. Curry's PER currently isn't fabulous due in large part to the string of awful games he had earlier in the season. History would say that Curry will come down to earth after his recent tear but I think there is still some room for optimism about the type of player he can become (although these expectations of Curry becoming a franchise player are likely far too lofty and unrealistic).

Fair enough. I wouldn't agree 100% with the bold part. I think Curry's PER isn't great because he's not good at anything other than scoring. That's why his PER every year is not good. His PER might be good (although I don't know what it is) during this seven game stretch because his scoring and rebounding are so good that they're at least cancelling out his weaknesses.

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by tomverve:


Curry isn't the fastest, tallest, or highest leaping guy on the court. He will almost certainly never be a great shotblocker because he doesn't have the physical tools to be a great shotblocker. He may improve his D but he will likely never be great at it. That's not necessarily an awful thing and it certainly doesn't negate the positive things Curry brings. You can be a good, effective player despite having flaws in your game (I think that's what Kenny Smith was trying to say). Tyson Chandler likely will never be more than a passable player on offense at best, but ask the Hornets how they like him so far.

I think your stressing my point though Tom. Both guys you mentioned are defensive players. Defense wins you basketball games.

Is it possible that defense and offense win games? The Suns have won a ton of games in the last 3 years. When it comes to championships we never won despite probably having the best defense. The Bulls won with 2 great players that played great offensively as well. Ditto the Lakers, celtics, etc etc. I dont see many 100% defense teams winning. You need a combination of both defense and offense. Miami ws not the best defensive team in basketball last year. They won the championship

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by Anji:

Damn, the same suspects..........SMH!!! If there is a UK Mafia, I want to start a UK WBC, Wett Blanket Committe. I nominate NYK4ever and joec32033 for Treasury!!!!!!

Why don't you actually TRY reading the posts and the other topics in the forum. Joe and I have been giving Eddy a great deal of praise for his offensive game and where its come from since even the beginning of this year.

You know, nyk4ever, now I know why Americans are so far behind the Japanese in just about every category...our reading comprehension has just gone to crap. Without that everything else folds pretty quick. I hold up Anji as example 1A.

Anji, you not only have to read the words but you have to process them as well to get the idea that is trying to be conveyed. I personally have gone out of my way to praise Curry, going so far as to post numbers I believe he is capable of(that many other pure Knicks optimists have said is too high of an expectation)that are ALL-Star caliber, but stll, I hate him.

I'll open up the floor to anyone who wants to keep bringing up any so called negativity I have towards Curry:

Find ANY posts where I have said Curry is unsalvageable or doesn't have the potential to be a great center. Every other post about him I am saying how high I believe his potential is. Every other post I am not saying anything that is a revelation. He is a much better ofeensive player, his defense borders on horrible.

Here's a copy of Hoopshype's scouting report on Curry:

Full of strength and agility... Very polished offensive game... Very effective right-handed jump hook... Should grab more rebounds... Not a great defensive player... Lacks concentration... Turnover prone. http://www.hoopshype.com/players/eddy_curry.htm

Here are a few others:

STRENGTH: Frontcourt scoring. The skills of Eddy Curry and Channing Frye naturally complement each oth er, and each can fill it up. Curry is a beast in the post whose scoring average would be much more impressive if he could avoid fouls, while Frye's deadly mid-range shooting clears the lane for his teammate. Frye is one of this year's most obvious breakout candidates.

WEAKNESS: Defense. Curry and Frye make great complements on offense, but on defense they might be the league's most vulnerable frontcourt. Frye lacks strength and is a speed bump for bulky forwards, while Curry's poor conditioning and wandering concentration provide little deterrent to opposing drivers. Neither is much of a rebounder, and the Knicks' offense-minded perimeter players won't make up for their deficiencies.
http://www.nysun.com/article/42297

2005-06 season: The Knicks centered much of their high hopes for the season around their unrealistic hopes for Curry, making a crazy bet by dealing an unprotected lottery pick to Chicago as part of the deal for his rights. Thus, even though he stayed reasonably healthy and showed some improvement, many viewed him as a colossal disappointment.

Curry wasn't an All-Star, but his ability to score in the blocks was undeniable. He not only produced 21.0 points per 40 minutes, but did so with unusually high-percentage shot-making. Curry ranked second only to Shaquille O'Neal in field-goal percentage at 56.3 percent, but it was his ability to draw fouls that was even more amazing.

Curry's phenomenal rate of .814 free-throw attempts per field-goal attempt ranked fourth overall in the NBA, and was easily the best among players who were prominent offensive weapons -- defined as those with a usage rate over 20 (see chart). Even with a poor conversion rate at the line (63.2 percent), Curry ranked fourth among centers in TS% and 10th overall.

Based on all that, you'd think Curry would have been an All-Star last season, but he wasn't because he was so poor in the other facets of the game. Despite his size, Curry has been a supbar rebounder his whole career. Last season he made a sharp improvement but still only ranked 43rd among centers in rebound rate.

That wouldn't be so bad if the man wasn't redefining the term tunnel vision. Curry was the black hole to end all black holes last season. Curry ought to get some assists just by accident because opponents are so anxious to double-team him, but he had the worst assist ratio in the league. The worst. Only 1.9 percent of his possessions ended in an assist.

The low assist ratio is important because it makes it easier to understand why Curry was so turnover prone. His turnover ratio ranked 54th among centers, and was astronomical for such a high-profile scorer. But since Curry wasn't going to pass the ball out, he had to deal with lots of hands swiping at the ball and hordes of rotating defenders looking to take charges. Those offensive fouls hurt in another respect -- Curry's high foul rate helped limit him to 25.9 minutes per game.

Scouting report: Curry's size and touch make him one of the game's elite post scorers. He's capable of establishing deep post position, and from there he can turn with a quick hook or lean in and get fouled. He also has a decent jumper from 15 feet and in, although it would be nice if he'd improve his touch at the line considering how often he's fouled.

Curry's body is a serious concern. He weighs 285 pounds, plus or minus 15 depending on what day of the week it is, so staying in shape is an issue. And did we mention the heart condition? It scared the Bulls enough that they wouldn't re-sign him last season.

Curry's poor conditioning manifests itself most often on defense, where he is sluggish and usually a step late to help and is routinely beaten down the floor for easy buckets. He can push big guys out of the paint but he does little else well and is prone to touch fouls. Overall, the Knicks' defense was 5.3 points worse per 100 possessions with Curry on the court.

2006-07 outlook: Curry enters the season as the Knicks' starting center, but he's going to have a tough time improving on last season unless he gets in better shape and improves his defensive effort. That's theoretically possible since he won't be 24 until December, but if Curry is going to deliver on his All-Star potential we should start seeing results soon.

Either way he'll be a beast in the post capable of going off for 30 on any foul-free night, but his many other weaknesses make it unlikely he'll live up to the Knicks' expectations.From John Hollinger, ESPN insider http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?statsId=3514


Now before you go all crazy and say I am bashing CUrry, that is not the point of this at all. Just that the concerns many of us, myself in particular, are voicing does not mean we hate Curry. It is the reality of the situation. Sure he can improve every facet of his game and be an ALL-NBA great, I believe he has that potential. Whether he does depends on him.

Joe, you have to wonder if its you that doesn't remember saying he sucks or not. Seriously, put up a Japanese guy and me side by side and I bet I'll pass reading comprehension just as much as he does.

Silver, I know I didn't say he sucks because I truly and consciously stay away from saying anyone sucks. If you infer from my posts that is my attitude towards him, then I am not making myself clear or the people reading them are not processing the information correctly.

I am still waiting for you to find those posts where I say Curry sucks, and I have opened the floor to anyone else who wants to try. I have never said that about ANY player on any board I have been on because I am very specific when I am talking about any player and ALWAYS break them down into a strengths and weaknesses. Once again, I KNOW I never said that because I consciously stay away from that phrasing because I personally feel it brings down the entire level of the conversation.

I'm tired of defending myself against this. Silver, you and whoever else are free to find the posts where I said what you say and post them wherever you want on this board....in this thread, in a new thread, whatever. Until then stop putting words into my mouth.

And you base this on your judgment of a Knick fan off a forum? Wow!

And as being it based on one fan on a Knicks forum I figured you'd get the exaggeration.

Don't bother searching, Silver. I've found your evidence.

Posted by joec32033:

Every player on the Knicks sucks. Mark that down. Take it to the bank. I mean no innuendos here. They are all bona fide masters of sucktitude. Eddy Curry sucks worse that getting kicked in the balls + catching genital herpes x permanent dysentery. Make no mistake -- he sucks!!! Chisel this statement in stone and save it in the record books in case anyone ever calls me on it. If I deny it, may I be ridiculed on this board forever.