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isiah: expiring contracts not as asset
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martin
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10/31/2006  10:01 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

"Actually we saved money by buying (Rose and Maurice Taylor) out," Thomas said to reporters yesterday.

wait, you being facisious or did Isiah really say that?

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Bippity10
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10/31/2006  10:01 AM
CEO's will be studying his smoke screens for years. 5 coaches, 35 buyouts, 3 rosters, 3 different "stars" to build around. A coach led out by security guards, a coach who's assistants are fired, a coach who has no fit with his players, lawsuits. How does he still have a job?

That question aside it's nice to see that he is starting to do many of the things that the "haters" have called for. Trust will take a long time to be earned but at least this offseason has just been mediocre instead of being a disaster.
I just hope that people will like me
djsunyc
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10/31/2006  10:02 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by djsunyc:

"Actually we saved money by buying (Rose and Maurice Taylor) out," Thomas said to reporters yesterday.

wait, you being facisious or did Isiah really say that?

he really said that. isiah is a visionary...
martin
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10/31/2006  10:17 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by martin:
Posted by djsunyc:

"Actually we saved money by buying (Rose and Maurice Taylor) out," Thomas said to reporters yesterday.

wait, you being facisious or did Isiah really say that?

he really said that. isiah is a visionary...

someone forgot to tell Isiah that he wasted a boatload by bringing them in in the first place.
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izybx
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10/31/2006  10:24 AM
Lets look at it this way.

1. JRose hurts the team by being on the floor because plays even worse defense than Marbury and he takes minutes from balkman.

2. Hurts the team by being on the bench because he probably doesnt deserve to be playing behind balkman considering he is a 33 year old uninjured solid player. That will get ugle very quickly.

So Rose helps this team more off it than on it.

As for the expiring contract, yeah we could have traded it for KMart, whi is retiring cause of his knee (imagine if that had went through? !!!!)Or we can hold on to it to trade for KG who probably isnt going to be traded.

At some point it has to stop and we have to get under the cap. It amuses me that some of the same people we have complained about Isiahs free spending ways are now complaining about the team trying to exercise some fiscal responsibility.

It was a mistake to get rose. Isiah lost his cool i think, and traded for rose in desperation. So he f..ked up, and it cost some rich guy 35 million bucks. Why should we care?

We need to get the cap under control. Just because isiah did such a bad job before doesnt mean he should continue blowing money on big contracts.

Beat the Evil Empire. BEAT MIAMI
djsunyc
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10/31/2006  10:27 AM
Posted by izybx:

Lets look at it this way.

1. JRose hurts the team by being on the floor because plays even worse defense than Marbury and he takes minutes from balkman.

2. Hurts the team by being on the bench because he probably doesnt deserve to be playing behind balkman considering he is a 33 year old uninjured solid player. That will get ugle very quickly.

So Rose helps this team more off it than on it.

As for the expiring contract, yeah we could have traded it for KMart, whi is retiring cause of his knee (imagine if that had went through? !!!!)Or we can hold on to it to trade for KG who probably isnt going to be traded.

At some point it has to stop and we have to get under the cap. It amuses me that some of the same people we have complained about Isiahs free spending ways are now complaining about the team trying to exercise some fiscal responsibility.

It was a mistake to get rose. Isiah lost his cool i think, and traded for rose in desperation. So he f..ked up, and it cost some rich guy 35 million bucks. Why should we care?

We need to get the cap under control. Just because isiah did such a bad job before doesnt mean he should continue blowing money on big contracts.



nobody is complaining about jalen getting waived. we're upset that some still don't see how the move was total BS from the get go.
izybx
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10/31/2006  10:31 AM
No i agree with you, it was a complete panic trade. But seriously, what did it cost us?
Beat the Evil Empire. BEAT MIAMI
djsunyc
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10/31/2006  10:33 AM
Posted by izybx:

No i agree with you, it was a complete panic trade. But seriously, what did it cost us?

it cost us nothing. but it's just another feather in the cap that will ultimately cost isiah his job. useless moves at the expense of uncle jimmy.
nixluva
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10/31/2006  10:33 AM
Hey Isiah is human and if you look at most GM's even the great ones like West have made lot's of mistakes. The difference is that they didn't do it in NY. Look at Colangelo, he is the one that gave Steph that huge contract and he was stuck until he was bailed out by Isiah. Still people want to think of Colangelo as this great GM. He was VERY fortunate to have landed Nash. He certainly couldn't have known when he traded Steph, that Dallas would let Nash go. Colangelo basically got lucky. If Dallas keeps Nash, he has NOTHING to show for the Marbury trade.

In any event the roster is cleared up a bit more which is a good thing. We didn't need to use the Exp. Contracts so letting them go and not bringing in more salary is gonna be good for this team. We'll be down to around 75mil at the end of the year. Still a lot but much less than we had before.
djsunyc
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10/31/2006  10:37 AM
Posted by nixluva:

Hey Isiah is human and if you look at most GM's even the great ones like West have made lot's of mistakes. The difference is that they didn't do it in NY. Look at Colangelo, he is the one that gave Steph that huge contract and he was stuck until he was bailed out by Isiah. Still people want to think of Colangelo as this great GM. He was VERY fortunate to have landed Nash. He certainly couldn't have known when he traded Steph, that Dallas would let Nash go. Colangelo basically got lucky. If Dallas keeps Nash, he has NOTHING to show for the Marbury trade.

In any event the roster is cleared up a bit more which is a good thing. We didn't need to use the Exp. Contracts so letting them go and not bringing in more salary is gonna be good for this team. We'll be down to around 75mil at the end of the year. Still a lot but much less than we had before.

nixluva, it's simple...if you have a sound plan, then a mistake or two won't derail you from that plan. that's why paxson was able to improve the bulls even after 4 lottery picks have departed the team: crawford, jwill, curry, and chandler (3 of which were there when he arrived). that's why colangelo can give penny + marbury those deals but got rid of them when he had the chance.

if lb can be lambasted by many people after one season as coach, then isiah can get flamed for his abysmal 3 years as gm.

you make your own luck. isiah is BAD luck. not a good vibe and it shows as the team is a laughing stock and at no point in the organizations history has there been such inner turmoil.
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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10/31/2006  10:41 AM
Isiah buying Jalen out was a shock initially, but now I'm womndering what plans he has for that roster spot.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
nyk4ever
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10/31/2006  10:42 AM
It's been 3 years of trades and draft picks under Isiah and the Knicks STILL don't have a legitimate player to build this team around.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
martin
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10/31/2006  10:44 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by nixluva:

Hey Isiah is human and if you look at most GM's even the great ones like West have made lot's of mistakes. The difference is that they didn't do it in NY. Look at Colangelo, he is the one that gave Steph that huge contract and he was stuck until he was bailed out by Isiah. Still people want to think of Colangelo as this great GM. He was VERY fortunate to have landed Nash. He certainly couldn't have known when he traded Steph, that Dallas would let Nash go. Colangelo basically got lucky. If Dallas keeps Nash, he has NOTHING to show for the Marbury trade.

In any event the roster is cleared up a bit more which is a good thing. We didn't need to use the Exp. Contracts so letting them go and not bringing in more salary is gonna be good for this team. We'll be down to around 75mil at the end of the year. Still a lot but much less than we had before.

nixluva, it's simple...if you have a sound plan, then a mistake or two won't derail you from that plan. that's why paxson was able to improve the bulls even after 4 lottery picks have departed the team: crawford, jwill, curry, and chandler (3 of which were there when he arrived). that's why colangelo can give penny + marbury those deals but got rid of them when he had the chance.

if lb can be lambasted by many people after one season as coach, then isiah can get flamed for his abysmal 3 years as gm.

you make your own luck. isiah is BAD luck. not a good vibe and it shows as the team is a laughing stock and at no point in the organizations history has there been such inner turmoil.

nixluva, you pick an isolated incident. If memory serves correct Steph had just carried the Suns to a near victory over the Spurs. Marb was also probably on best behavior cause he was in a contract year or 2. As a GM you just can't let your All-star player walk for nothing... so Colangelo was not in a good position to NOT sign Steph. Are you saying that it was a mistake to sign Steph at all?

GMs that don't do their homework are the worst. Ask around the league and everyone will tell you that James had 4-5 good games but has done nothing else and doesn't want to do much else. Ask everyone in Chicago and they will tell you the Curry has weight problems and motivation problems. Ask anyone about LB and they will tell you he needs defensive minded vets on a team to succeed.

As a fan, I KNOW the above without much thought process. And as a GM Isiah should know this better. He makes the same mistake over and over and over and over again. We are not talking about 1 bad signing, we are talking MANY.
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nixluva
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10/31/2006  10:46 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by nixluva:

Hey Isiah is human and if you look at most GM's even the great ones like West have made lot's of mistakes. The difference is that they didn't do it in NY. Look at Colangelo, he is the one that gave Steph that huge contract and he was stuck until he was bailed out by Isiah. Still people want to think of Colangelo as this great GM. He was VERY fortunate to have landed Nash. He certainly couldn't have known when he traded Steph, that Dallas would let Nash go. Colangelo basically got lucky. If Dallas keeps Nash, he has NOTHING to show for the Marbury trade.

In any event the roster is cleared up a bit more which is a good thing. We didn't need to use the Exp. Contracts so letting them go and not bringing in more salary is gonna be good for this team. We'll be down to around 75mil at the end of the year. Still a lot but much less than we had before.

nixluva, it's simple...if you have a sound plan, then a mistake or two won't derail you from that plan. that's why paxson was able to improve the bulls even after 4 lottery picks have departed the team: crawford, jwill, curry, and chandler (3 of which were there when he arrived). that's why colangelo can give penny + marbury those deals but got rid of them when he had the chance.

if lb can be lambasted by many people after one season as coach, then isiah can get flamed for his abysmal 3 years as gm.

you make your own luck. isiah is BAD luck. not a good vibe and it shows as the team is a laughing stock and at no point in the organizations history has there been such inner turmoil.

Isiah's time here hasn't been abysmal. If he had done what some wanted and basically tried to gut the team at the start, there are no guarantees we'd be any closer to a title. He had a so so, 1st half season, followed by a bad year in his 1st full season. Last year should've been the 1st yr of our new youth movement, but LB didn't do his job. now this year we can get this thing cranked up. It hasn't been a bad 3 yrs. If he hadn't retooled this team and brought in talented youth then i'd say it was a bad 3 years. The thing is some of you guys can't look at what he's done in a very short time and give him credit for remaking this team which was pure garbage when he got here.

Let me ask you realistically how soon was he supposed to be able to turn around this team which was headed NOWHERE when he got here? 1 year, 2 years, 3 years? So many of you guys and the media are SO OFF BASE ! They only look at the money spent and ignore that it almost always takes YEARS to fix a totally broken team.
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10/31/2006  10:51 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:

Isiah is the biggest liar that has ever walked this Earth. This is the complete opposite of what he said last year.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 10-31-2006 12:11 AM]
Didn't LB do this exact same thing, like right in the exact same interview?
Didn't hear you calling him a liar.

Just looking for some parity.
Killa4luv
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10/31/2006  10:56 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

lb wanted to be gm.
he went behind isiah's back to broker deals.
we wanted him to concentrate on coaching.

why did you trade for francis and rose?
b/c larry told us to.
And every single one of you LB lovers wanted him to make the trades that LB asked for, right up until they didn't work out. When will you (and your kind) stop trying to have it both ways. You know theres a word for that...starts with bi, and ends with sexual.
nyk4ever
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10/31/2006  11:00 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by djsunyc:

lb wanted to be gm.
he went behind isiah's back to broker deals.
we wanted him to concentrate on coaching.

why did you trade for francis and rose?
b/c larry told us to.
And every single one of you LB lovers wanted him to make the trades that LB asked for, right up until they didn't work out. When will you (and your kind) stop trying to have it both ways. You know theres a word for that...starts with bi, and ends with sexual.

Killa, you are one of 3 people still harping on the word "LB lovers."

And no, there weren't many people who wanted Francis and Rose here besides the people who only see talent and don't see chemistry killer.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 10-31-2006 11:02 AM]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
nixluva
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10/31/2006  11:12 AM
I'm still waiting to find out how many years do you guys think it would take for any GM to turn around a team like NY was when Isiah got here, into a playoff team?

1 Year
2 Years
3 Years
4 Years
5 Years

Incidentially many media analysts felt it would take about 5 years to fix that mess. If LB had done his job we would at least have started to get the ship turned in the right direction after just 2.5 seasons. Now we're headed into the 3rd full season and if Isiah can get this team to the playoffs I say that he has done a good job here.

If we tried gut the team, wait out the big contracts and lose big for the 1st 2.5 years while picking up a few draft picks, this team still would be on the outside looking in. Isiah took a diffferent path, but the team is poised to make significant improvement just the same. I just think that too many Knick fans and Media are too harsh with Isiah and what he's done with this team. Yes it's been a circus, but underneath all of that he's been putting together a good roster. One I believe you can win with.
islesfan
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10/31/2006  11:17 AM
The bottom line is that Isiah has done a ridiculously poor job as the GM and President of the Knicks.

As far as the team itself:

- he's spent hundreds of millions of dollars
- he's traded away 4 possibly very high draft picks
- he's onto his 5th head coach in his 2 1/2 years here
- he has put together a mismatched roster that doesn't compliment each other well and the best we can hope for after close to 4 full seasons here is a mediocre team

As far as the organization he's made us into the laughingstock of the league by:
- being involved in a sexual harrassment case
- going through coach after coach making it impossible to get a good proven coach here as long as Isiah is here
- getting involved in immature spats with sportswriters because his ego can't stand criticism
- seemingly changing plans and directions more often than he changes head coaches

It's not hate (ok, maybe a little bit), it's about wanting what's best for a franchise that a lot of us have put a lot of time and passion into for a lot of years. It's become obvious for most of us (thank God) that Isiah's tenure has done more harm than good to this franchise and think that it's time for change.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TMS
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10/31/2006  11:26 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by djsunyc:

lb wanted to be gm.
he went behind isiah's back to broker deals.
we wanted him to concentrate on coaching.

why did you trade for francis and rose?
b/c larry told us to.
And every single one of you LB lovers wanted him to make the trades that LB asked for, right up until they didn't work out. When will you (and your kind) stop trying to have it both ways. You know theres a word for that...starts with bi, and ends with sexual.

Killa, you are one of 3 people still harping on the word "LB lovers."

And no, there weren't many people who wanted Francis and Rose here besides the people who only see talent and don't see chemistry killer.

speaking for myself, i had no problem w/the Steve Francis trade when it was made because i was of the belief that it was made to set themselves up for a possible play for KG or Jermaine O'Neal... that trade never came, & that plan ended up to be pretty much yet another smoke screen of a plan set up to cover up the fact that there was no plan to begin with... it was just another move made w/no consideration for the adverse effect it would have on cap flexibility going forward that has kept this franchise in the mud spinning its wheels for a while now.

the Jalen Rose trade i was a little skeptical about, but the added 1st round pick along w/the fact that i thought we had some good tradeable assets to make a big blockbuster trade this offseason made it all worth it for me... again, a smokescreen w/little merit from the get go... expiring contracts have zero value if you're not willing to take on longterm contracts in exchange for them, & Dolan has switched his mindset on that & put his foot down on such deals going forward... it's a refreshing change to be honest & i'm willing to squash any feelings of being duped or frustration over this franchise's lack of a plan if they continue to make moves to cut payroll & stop taking on bad contracts to further handicap this franchise in the coming years.

if only this franchise would admit their own mistake of ever bringing Marbury in here to begin with & get rid of the guy, i'd actually have alot more faith in this team's prospects for a championship going forward... but obviously that'll never happen as long as Isiah's in charge of personnel decisions.

[Edited by - TMS on 10-31-2006 11:29 AM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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