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rvhoss
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10/29/2006  8:09 PM
roflmao
Posted by nyk4ever:

Yes it does.

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TheGame
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10/29/2006  8:09 PM
I think the Knicks should have kept Jalen. We might need that contract in the unlikely event a good deal comes along. I guess this at least is a good PR move. Letting a guy go that you have no use for, if done right, creates goodwill with the team and the former player. I, however, think IT has learned from his mistakes and would have either let Jalen's contract expire or made a good trade with him. Adding KG or O'Neal to this team would be just what it needs to get over the hump and balance out the roster.
Trust the Process
rvhoss
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10/29/2006  8:13 PM
09/10, we're at projected $56 mill, and if you are adding 10% per year pay raises, are you using anything for the cap increase each year (we have to ignore the next Collective Bargaining agreement)

I see $56 million with basically the same starting lineup today minus Stevie Knicks, Starbury and QRich.

Even with Jerome's Gigantic Outrageous Overpaid Bloated contract.

is there a salary left off? I'm confident by then the players we have will be solid nba veterans and the rest of the league will have basically their summer leagues and everyone lebron and wade and melo's age leading the way. (KG, Duncan, Dirk on the decline imho)

can you help me understand who we would be bringing in that is better than what we have between now and 2 years from now (or is it 3)?
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rvhoss
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10/29/2006  8:15 PM
while I appreciate the skillset of KG and Oneil, they haven't proven when given "superior talent" they can make it to finals...let alone sustain it over more than one season.

Would they really put us over the hump and at what cost that hump?
Posted by TheGame:

I think the Knicks should have kept Jalen. We might need that contract in the unlikely event a good deal comes along. I guess this at least is a good PR move. Letting a guy go that you have no use for, if done right, creates goodwill with the team and the former player. I, however, think IT has learned from his mistakes and would have either let Jalen's contract expire or made a good trade with him. Adding KG or O'Neal to this team would be just what it needs to get over the hump and balance out the roster.

all kool aid all the time.
nyk4ever
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10/29/2006  8:24 PM
Posted by rvhoss:



is there a salary left off? I'm confident by then the players we have will be solid nba veterans and the rest of the league will have basically their summer leagues and everyone lebron and wade and melo's age leading the way. (KG, Duncan, Dirk on the decline imho)

Who would have thought that you would be confident that they will be solid NBA veterans by then? Even if they are just solid, that team isn't winning anything, it would need a true scorer and true scorers don't come cheaply.

Also in 09/10 whose to say Isiah hasn't used the midlevel exception 3 more times(if he's still around of course) Add to that rookies and players to fill the bench, the Knicks won't be under the cap.

The real problem is that Eddy Curry is making 10million+ and you dont even know if he's going to be anywhere near worth that yet. The players that are on the 09/10 roster as of now would have to rely on Curry being the main cog, a Shaq-like scorer and I just don't see that happening. He doesnt have that desire.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 10-29-2006 8:25 PM]
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eViL
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10/29/2006  8:27 PM
Posted by eViL:

This is the current outlook for the Knicks cap. We're are never gonna get under there without shedding some contracts. I factored in the remaining years on Curry and Jeffries by adding 10% raises for each consecutive year that they are signed. Let me know if this doesn't line up with what people know about their contracts:


Player			2007/08		2008/09		2009/10		2010/11

Stephon Marbury		$20,109,375 	$21,937,500 	$0 		$0 			
Steve Francis		$16,440,000 	$17,180,000 	$0 		$0 			
Eddy Curry		$8,988,213 	$9,887,035 	$10,875,738 	$0 				
Quentin Richardson	$8,825,750 	$9,352,500 	$0 		$0 				
Jamal Crawford		$7,920,000 	$8,640,000 	$9,360,000 	$10,080,000 				
Malik Rose		$7,101,250 	$0 		$0 		$0 		
Jerome James		$5,800,000 	$6,200,000 	$6,600,000 	$0 				
Jared Jeffries		$5,736,500 	$6,310,150 	$6,941,165 	$7,635,282 				
Channing Frye		$2,487,240 	$3,163,769 	$4,264,760 	$0 				
Nate Robinson		$1,268,160 	$2,020,178 	$2,911,077 	$0 				
Renaldo Balkman		$1,234,800 	$1,320,960 	$2,036,920 	$2,918,906 				
David Lee		$990,600 	$1,788,033 	$2,682,049 	$0 				
Mardy Collins		$932,760 	$997,800 	$1,801,029 	$2,701,543 				

TOTALS:			$87,114,398 	$88,271,175 	$56,825,238 	$23,335,731

I don't know what the cap is going to be in 09/10, but I know that we'll have at least one or two more first round picks with guaranteed salaries on the team. So add at least $1.5 - $3.0M to that projected $56. If we used the MLE at all, there will be no room in 09/10.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's unlikely. And it seems like our contracts are staggered in a way where even though a bunch of people expire -- Curry, Craw, Jeffries, James all reach peak salary at the same time.

That summer we will have to lock up Frye, Nate and Lee to deals if we intend to keep them the following year. It's possible that we won't even be near below the cap unless we take the risky approach and not extend those three the summer prior, allowing them to eventually be unrestricted. If they decide they don't want to sign extensions we risk losing them for nothing.
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rvhoss
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10/29/2006  8:31 PM
I beg to differ...I believe Crawford, Curry and Frye are true scorers in the making and can more than carry the load as the triplets.

They all have the ability and even in last year's crappy season managed to stand out as players that can do more than one thing well to win a game.

given another 2 years to play together, I see no reason a supporting cast of balkman, collins, lee, nate and jefferies can be more than adequate supporting cast (oh, and jerome james).
Posted by nyk4ever:
Who would have thought that you would be confident that they will be solid NBA veterans by then? Even if they are just solid, that team isn't winning anything, it would need a true scorer and true scorers don't come cheaply.

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TheGame
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10/29/2006  8:31 PM
If we could get KG for Frye and Jalen, that would make a huge difference for this team. KG would provide the rebounding and defense that Curry lacks, and he has a jumpshot so his game can compliment Curry's. Plus, KG has the fire that this team needs from its big men.

O'Neal is a more complete scorer than Frye is right now and IMO is a better rebounder and defender than Frye has shown to be. He is a health risk, but he is still fairly young and can grow with the team. We can run our offense through him and he has a good enough jumpshot to compliment Curry's game. He would be an improvement over Frye and I really think this team is only a few minor tweaks away from being a solid squad.

We would still have the issue of no defense in the backcourt, but adding these two would go a long way towards solving our problems in the frontcourt. You add O'Neal or KG to this team, and it will make the playoffs.

I am not sure either of these trades are possible(especially since Bird hates IT), but without Jalen's expiring contract, we will find it almost impossible to pull off a trade for either.
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rvhoss
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10/29/2006  8:37 PM
so you're saying there's a chance!?!?!?

Honestly, if it goes as planned (there's that word again) then there will be little or no need to add significant payroll and the cap will be much larger as much as you are sure we will be adding MLEs (not using them has been done when you are happy with your team's current make up).

with the way the NBA has gone, with the exception of the wade/lebron/melo contracts, waiting until after the season to resign players has been the norm.

I counted all the "if"'s in your response and I'm confident that we are both ifing our way to eventually agreeing that there is a chance that if not 09/10, 10/11 ($25 mill [i didn't scroll down to see the exact amount fish/isles]) even with the added MLE's every year between now and then and the possible resigning of QRich (but that is a stretch, I'm guessing, as usual...sorry guys).

All the crazy trades have occurred, we've learned that we don't need anybody else.

we passed on the Webber deal and have not looked back. (ignore last year's LB debacle...PLEASE!! if lb did not call reezy dillusional and treat him like crap, we may still have him and penny would have expired, who's to say that isn't the direction we were going and LB reversed it for one year...who is to say we weren't always planning on holding off for THE Deal and realize that everyone hates Zeke [olympics anyone] and won't make a fair deal so let them expire like a good little GM...WHO IS TO SAY?)
Posted by eViL:
Posted by eViL:

This is the current outlook for the Knicks cap. We're are never gonna get under there without shedding some contracts. I factored in the remaining years on Curry and Jeffries by adding 10% raises for each consecutive year that they are signed. Let me know if this doesn't line up with what people know about their contracts:


Player			2007/08		2008/09		2009/10		2010/11

Stephon Marbury		$20,109,375 	$21,937,500 	$0 		$0 			
Steve Francis		$16,440,000 	$17,180,000 	$0 		$0 			
Eddy Curry		$8,988,213 	$9,887,035 	$10,875,738 	$0 				
Quentin Richardson	$8,825,750 	$9,352,500 	$0 		$0 				
Jamal Crawford		$7,920,000 	$8,640,000 	$9,360,000 	$10,080,000 				
Malik Rose		$7,101,250 	$0 		$0 		$0 		
Jerome James		$5,800,000 	$6,200,000 	$6,600,000 	$0 				
Jared Jeffries		$5,736,500 	$6,310,150 	$6,941,165 	$7,635,282 				
Channing Frye		$2,487,240 	$3,163,769 	$4,264,760 	$0 				
Nate Robinson		$1,268,160 	$2,020,178 	$2,911,077 	$0 				
Renaldo Balkman		$1,234,800 	$1,320,960 	$2,036,920 	$2,918,906 				
David Lee		$990,600 	$1,788,033 	$2,682,049 	$0 				
Mardy Collins		$932,760 	$997,800 	$1,801,029 	$2,701,543 				

TOTALS:			$87,114,398 	$88,271,175 	$56,825,238 	$23,335,731

I don't know what the cap is going to be in 09/10, but I know that we'll have at least one or two more first round picks with guaranteed salaries on the team. So add at least $1.5 - $3.0M to that projected $56. If we used the MLE at all, there will be no room in 09/10.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's unlikely. And it seems like our contracts are staggered in a way where even though a bunch of people expire -- Curry, Craw, Jeffries, James all reach peak salary at the same time.

That summer we will have to lock up Frye, Nate and Lee to deals if we intend to keep them the following year. It's possible that we won't even be near below the cap unless we take the risky approach and not extend those three the summer prior, allowing them to eventually be unrestricted. If they decide they don't want to sign extensions we risk losing them for nothing.

all kool aid all the time.
rvhoss
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10/29/2006  8:39 PM
are indiana and/or minnesota under the cap?

Posted by TheGame:

If we could get KG for Frye and Jalen, that would make a huge difference for this team. KG would provide the rebounding and defense that Curry lacks, and he has a jumpshot so his game can compliment Curry's. Plus, KG has the fire that this team needs from its big men.

O'Neal is a more complete scorer than Frye is right now and IMO is a better rebounder and defender than Frye has shown to be. He is a health risk, but he is still fairly young and can grow with the team. We can run our offense through him and he has a good enough jumpshot to compliment Curry's game. He would be an improvement over Frye and I really think this team is only a few minor tweaks away from being a solid squad.

We would still have the issue of no defense in the backcourt, but adding these two would go a long way towards solving our problems in the frontcourt. You add O'Neal or KG to this team, and it will make the playoffs.

I am not sure either of these trades are possible(especially since Bird hates IT), but without Jalen's expiring contract, we will find it almost impossible to pull off a trade for either.

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eViL
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10/29/2006  8:48 PM 

Player			2007/08		2008/09		2009/10		2010/11

Stephon Marbury		$20,109,375 	$21,937,500 	$0 		$0 			
Steve Francis		$16,440,000 	$17,180,000 	$0 		$0 			
Eddy Curry		$8,988,213 	$9,887,035 	$10,875,738 	$0 				
Quentin Richardson	$8,825,750 	$9,352,500 	$0 		$0 				
Jamal Crawford		$7,920,000 	$8,640,000 	$9,360,000 	$10,080,000 				
Malik Rose		$7,101,250 	$0 		$0 		$0 		
Jerome James		$5,800,000 	$6,200,000 	$6,600,000 	$0 				
Jared Jeffries		$5,736,500 	$6,310,150 	$6,941,165 	$7,635,282 				
Channing Frye		$2,487,240 	$3,163,769 	$4,264,760 	$0 				
Nate Robinson		$1,268,160 	$2,020,178 	$2,911,077 	$0 				
Renaldo Balkman		$1,234,800 	$1,320,960 	$2,036,920 	$2,918,906 				
David Lee		$990,600 	$1,788,033 	$2,682,049 	$0 				
Mardy Collins		$932,760 	$997,800 	$1,801,029 	$2,701,543 				

TOTALS:			$87,114,398 	$88,271,175 	$56,825,238 	$23,335,731

Posted by rvhoss:

so you're saying there's a chance!?!?!?

First of all, you should be thanking me for even doing the little bit of work it took to make this basketball conversation possible -- Give credit where credit is due, you love to bash on people for not adding to the board with their posts. Well, there you have it, RV -- I did something that makes talking about the future of the Knicks that much easier, so you're welcome. No hate. No jokes. Just helpful info. Now you can consider the possibilities with more accuracy.

And yes, it's possible we end up under the cap. If the cap goes up. If we resist giving out more deals. And if we manage our current crop strategically. That's a lot of ifs. I hope it doesn't matter by then. If miracles happen maybe we'll be a good team already.
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rvhoss
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10/29/2006  8:52 PM
credit.
all kool aid all the time.
eViL
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10/29/2006  8:55 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

credit.

Thank you. Now all you have to do is buy my CD and we're even
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nyk4ever
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10/29/2006  8:55 PM
Posted by eViL:
Posted by rvhoss:

credit.

Thank you. Now all you have to do is buy my CD and we're even

LOL!
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
rvhoss
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10/29/2006  8:57 PM
if you bring it to the get together, I'll gladly take one.
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by eViL:
Posted by rvhoss:

credit.

Thank you. Now all you have to do is buy my CD and we're even

LOL!

all kool aid all the time.
eViL
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10/29/2006  9:06 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

if you bring it to the get together, I'll gladly take one.
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by eViL:
Posted by rvhoss:

credit.

Thank you. Now all you have to do is buy my CD and we're even

LOL!

Of course, I was joking, but I will have some at the get together for anyone whose interested (though, I sense people will be saving their dough for drinks ). And they are available online for those who won't be there.

But back to B-Ball -- the only sure-fire way that I see us under the cap is to move Craw. Trust me, it's not a popular move from my standpoint. I like him. I like his attitude. I like his clutch abilities. But if we can lose his $9M in 09/10 our prospects of landing a solid franchise guy just got a heck of a lot better.
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rvhoss
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10/29/2006  9:09 PM
Interesting...Craw...hmmm...it's have to be part of a package for Melo...maybe craw and qrich and possibly jerome (there's that name again).

i'm serious...I don't want anybody but the three guns or kobe.

anybody else is a waste of time and future imho.
all kool aid all the time.
eViL
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10/29/2006  9:13 PM
Does Denver do a Crawford for Najera and Hodge deal today? Let Hodge and Najera expire and we're looking at $47M in salary for 09/10. We'd finally have leverage again.
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Rich
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10/29/2006  9:18 PM
Craw is our only guard who looks to feed the post.
eViL
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10/29/2006  9:23 PM
Posted by Rich:

Craw is our only guard who looks to feed the post.

I hear ya. I like him. He might be my second favorite Knick right now. I'm just trying to be realistic about what we can do to gain that ever important flexibility that we need. Come up with a plan and post it in this thread:

http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=17749
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