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Knicks - Celtics last night - My reaction (I was at the game)
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nyk4ever
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10/23/2006  1:36 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Can someone clarify for me, when is it okay for me to expect the players to play hard?

You can expect the players to play hard when the coach/gm and 95% of the players on the roster are not on the roster anymore... OR what Martin said.
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BlueSeats
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10/23/2006  1:44 PM
Hard play is a nice ideal, but there needs to be exceptions.

Obvious blowouts, like when we're down 10 in the 1st quarter. Bad starts are insurmountable and create a great opportunity to give the deep bench a good look.

If a player doesn't like a teammate, the coach or an assistant coach. Anyone would pout and fit under those conditions.

When room service is late with a meal.

Airport delays, rough flights or coach seating.

Home openers. These are really just about getting comfortable again and greeting celebrity row.

New plays or a new starter in the lineup can throw any team for a loop.

Afternoon games and holidays.

Nationally televised games. These are best used for self-promotional purposes. Any interviews should be focused on extracurricular business opportunities and explaining ones new demeanor.

Sure, hard play 100% of the time is a nice ideal, but one must keep the realities of this team in mind. This is just a hobby for some of these guys. You take what they give you.
nixluva
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10/23/2006  1:46 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by Bippity10:

Can someone clarify for me, when is it okay for me to expect the players to play hard?

You can expect the players to play hard when the coach/gm and 95% of the players on the roster are not on the roster anymore... OR what Martin said.

I think that it's clear when you look around the league during preseason that MOST teams aren't playing as hard as they can. WHY is this even an issue? You also have to factor in that Coach's will use some players and player combinations that they haven't used so far in the preseason, just to see how it goes. They may run certain plays to see how they work or leave out most of the playbook so as not to show their hand. This is the time to try stuff and work things out in your mind as a coach. To assume that the effort you get in the preseason is going to forecast exactly how the team will play during the season is just silly. I'd guess that in MOST cases teams will play harder and with more discipline during the regular season.
martin
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10/23/2006  1:50 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by Bippity10:

Can someone clarify for me, when is it okay for me to expect the players to play hard?

You can expect the players to play hard when the coach/gm and 95% of the players on the roster are not on the roster anymore... OR what Martin said.

I think that it's clear when you look around the league during preseason that MOST teams aren't playing as hard as they can. WHY is this even an issue? You also have to factor in that Coach's will use some players and player combinations that they haven't used so far in the preseason, just to see how it goes. They may run certain plays to see how they work or leave out most of the playbook so as not to show their hand. This is the time to try stuff and work things out in your mind as a coach. To assume that the effort you get in the preseason is going to forecast exactly how the team will play during the season is just silly. I'd guess that in MOST cases teams will play harder and with more discipline during the regular season.

you have never been a coach and/or part of a winning atmosphere. Practice hard and then you play hard. AI may be the one world exception. That dude plays hard no matter if his teams record is 20-62 or 62-20, everyone else just need to have effort ON at all times just in case.

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BlueSeats
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10/23/2006  1:50 PM
Posted by nixluva:
I think that it's clear when you look around the league during preseason that MOST teams aren't playing as hard as they can. WHY is this even an issue?


Ooh, ooh, call me, call me!

Because this is a team that for two years running was NOT known for great effort and this season is supposed to be about CHANGING the culture?
martin
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10/23/2006  1:52 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by nixluva:
I think that it's clear when you look around the league during preseason that MOST teams aren't playing as hard as they can. WHY is this even an issue?


Ooh, ooh, call me, call me!

Because this is a team that for two years running was NOT known for great effort and this season is supposed to be about CHANGING the culture?

BROWN-NOSER. Oh my, that's double meaning!
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K22
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10/23/2006  2:12 PM
Posted by martin:
Practice hard and then you play hard. AI may be the one world exception. That dude plays hard no matter if his teams record is 20-62 or 62-20, everyone else just need to have effort ON at all times just in case.

Just ask AI. He'll tell ya.




[Edited by - K22 on 10-23-2006 2:13 PM]
-- the preceding post was brought to you by the letter K and the number 22.
Bippity10
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10/23/2006  3:00 PM
So that answers my question, there are times when it's okay not to give your all. Even when coming off an entire season in which you didn't work hard. Even when fighting for positions that you are forced to earn because everyone has something to prove. Even when the coach is trying to figure out what the team really has after a wasted season in which everyone admitted they quit on the coach not allowing to show us what type of team we have. Got it!
I just hope that people will like me
islesfan
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10/23/2006  3:13 PM
What Isiah said after the game:

"Tonight, we needed to try to play from behind. We needed to try to see if we could stay within our offense and execute."

See, you guys are getting all worked up over nothing. It was Isiah's plan all along to let the team get behind and then see how they could execute under those conditions.

It was nothing more than a controlled experiment. Giving the Celts a big lead by not playing any defense was just part of the master plan.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
fishmike
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10/23/2006  3:23 PM
Posted by islesfan:

What Isiah said after the game:

"Tonight, we needed to try to play from behind. We needed to try to see if we could stay within our offense and execute."

See, you guys are getting all worked up over nothing. It was Isiah's plan all along to let the team get behind and then see how they could execute under those conditions.

It was nothing more than a controlled experiment. Giving the Celts a big lead by not playing any defense was just part of the master plan.
see! I knew you would come around! Isiah is a genious. By the way I'm getting the feeling that they will have PLENTY of opportunities to draw from what they learned from that experiment once the season starts

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
islesfan
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10/23/2006  3:34 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by islesfan:

What Isiah said after the game:

"Tonight, we needed to try to play from behind. We needed to try to see if we could stay within our offense and execute."

See, you guys are getting all worked up over nothing. It was Isiah's plan all along to let the team get behind and then see how they could execute under those conditions.

It was nothing more than a controlled experiment. Giving the Celts a big lead by not playing any defense was just part of the master plan.
see! I knew you would come around! Isiah is a genious. By the way I'm getting the feeling that they will have PLENTY of opportunities to draw from what they learned from that experiment once the season starts

And when it happens, time and time again, they'll be very prepared for it.

Pure genius. I really gotta hand it to Isiah this time.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Bippity10
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10/23/2006  3:40 PM
Optimistic NY fans have spoken:

There are now times that it is okay for the players to slack off.
I just hope that people will like me
Elite
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10/23/2006  3:42 PM
that quote by isiah is obserd
rvhoss
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10/23/2006  3:51 PM
i warned everyone not to come to the board after a loss.

whoa is me. whoa is me. the sky is falling. they knicks will not win a game all year.

islesfat was right all along.

the knicks suck.

just kiding!

[Edited by - rvhoss on 10-23-2006 3:51 PM]
all kool aid all the time.
Swishfm3
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10/23/2006  3:51 PM
every sport goes all out at pre-season and training camps.

Just ask the NFL...
Swishfm3
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10/23/2006  3:52 PM
oh...and remember A.McDyess
Bippity10
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10/23/2006  3:53 PM
"Thomas acknowledges that the scheme doesn't really utilize the talents of a "pick-and-pop" player like the 6-10 Frye, who seems more comfortable with the short jumper than on the post. But the second-year power forward isn't feeling as frustrated as he sometimes looks out there."

-Newsday

I guess if we aren't going to allow Channing Frye to "do his thing" or to "play his game" or "utilize his talents" it must mean it's okay for him to give up on this season.
I just hope that people will like me
rvhoss
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10/23/2006  4:00 PM
he'll be good in the playoffs or he'll be involved in that magical trade for KG or JO.

Either way, it's his defense where he looks uncomfortable, his offense seems to be pretty good (looking at stats purely).

If he's as uncomfortable as David Lee looks comfortable, then you guys may get your wish and he'll be coming off the bench behind the extremely productive and comfortable looking david lee.

Pick and pop is what's used at the end of games when possessions mean something...that's when he will be needed/utilized.

If he wants to use that as an excuse, so be it...but he was allowed to "do his thing" and "play his game" or "utilize his talents" last year and we won 23 games.

Any difference from last year to this year is being met with open arms.

If we have to sacrifice Frye's pick and pop game to make the playoffs and grow as a team, then so be it.

Same with marbury and anybody else on the team.

BTW...I disagree with your assessment of the quote...also, can you provide a link, the quote seems half attributed to Isiah and half a commentary by the Newsday reporter...did zeke say he looks uncomfortable?

Oh, just reread it, he says he is NOT feeling frustrated as he sometimes looks.

I'm so confused.

islesfat, can you sort it out for me?
all kool aid all the time.
Bippity10
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10/23/2006  4:03 PM
"No, I feel fine," Frye said after Saturday's 113-89 loss to the Celtics in Uncasville, Conn.

Frye, who had nine points and 12 rebounds in 29 minutes, said learning his place in Thomas' system "gives me a chance to work on other skills; just try and find other places to get shots. I don't want to be known as a guy who just does one or two things ... I want to be a versatile player."

That's Channing Frye's response. Thankfully he understands that sometimes you don't get a chance to "play your game". Thankfully he will not use that as an excuse to quit and not play hard. I'm just saying that as the season goes on and he decides it's okay to quit and not play hard that we on this board have his back and support him 100% in this endeavor.
I just hope that people will like me
rvhoss
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10/23/2006  4:05 PM
he's a better teammate and leader than marbury AND he says all the right things pretty much all the time (except when he bashed LB)
all kool aid all the time.
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Knicks - Celtics last night - My reaction (I was at the game)
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