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Eddy Curry is the EXACT SAME player as he was last year
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wsdm
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10/15/2006  12:12 PM
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by rvhoss:

with these two wins, and fabulous team play, the tables are turning.

In an effort to get the haters to hang their asses out there, it's getting increasing evident that the haters are the ones trying to get the kool aid junkies to up their estimates so they can say "I told you so".

Well, I'm feeling 50 wins. But to keep the vultures from looking at something to down me on if they only win 49

I honestly believe that the knicks will DOUBLE last year's pathetic coaching win total with the same staff as last year.

If Balkman is the difference, I'd simply say LB wouldn't have drafted and/or played him.

our depth and team play will be the difference.

Isiah has players for any style of basketball.

When he needs to play the slow down game on offense (playoff style) he can bring the curry/crawfish one/two punch he brought against philly.

Or he can go with his push style offense (quick) and run teams into the ground.

That flexibility will serve us well in "stealing" games during the season.

We're going to have 46 wins and the only difference will be that we will win games we are supposed to win.

We are supposed to beat the nets when they don't have kidd or vince.
We are supposed to beat the sixers who have no depth.
We are supposed to win in preseason if we are so determined to wash last year's taste out of our mouths.

We battled chicago and detroit last year in some monumentally entertaining games. One of them got worst and the other added ben wallace.

Here is what I think about ben wallace!
I like how the team played in these two games but you can't ignore the fact that both opponents were without two key starters (Kidd & Carter/Webber & Dalembert).


1) dally didnt even start a many games in the 2nd half of the last season. Hunter did.
2) webber has never been known as a defensive force for the 76ers
3) we were missing francis, jeffries, JJ and Malik as well

None of those guys are one-tenth as good as Kidd or Carter.
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TheGame
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10/15/2006  12:16 PM
The point IT is trying to make is that the team needs to always strive to win regardless of whether it is preseason or the regular season. These players got used to losing last year. They now need to get used to winning and it starts in the preseason.
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joec32033
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10/15/2006  12:35 PM
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:

Some Knicks under LB last season had great games followed by dnps. Thats not excusing EC totally but there were agendas at work with LB tht sure didnt help the case.

Yeah, but the problem is Curry never got a DNP. He was consistently the starting center, never pulled early (unless in foul trouble-which he himself is responsible for).

I can see where you can make a case like that for Frye, Lee, Nate, etc....Curry, IMO, is not one that has that argument because Larry really never yanked him around.

Never pulled early or yanked around? You have to be kidding me. I remember one game he started with 12 points on 5 shots with 5 rebs and 2 blocks and he was yanked for no reason. He was dominating and not tired at all. He sat on the bench for about 25 real time not game time minutes and by the time he got back he went from red hot to ice cold.

This is very accurate. Lb also never let him play through fouls even when the game was a fore-gone-conclusion and we were like 80 games under 500.

I remember the Philly when Curry put up 5/5. He got off to a slow start was just benched. LB never gave him a chance to fight through it.

The Indy game was a blow-out in our favor and the entire 3rd quarter was garbage time.

Hopefully, Isiah will let him play through fouls this yr.

Like I said, even if I give you that-which for the sake of argument I will give you-Curry had many games where he was horrible. That does not explain his bad games. He had 11 games under 5 and 5 plus his rebounding was very poor.

LB always had the philosophy of defend and rebound or you don't play. Nothing new. Curry had alot of points, not alot of boards. LB was in a teaching mode here, so I can understand why he did it. Do I agree with it-not really, but I understand why he did it.
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rvhoss
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10/15/2006  12:38 PM
his bad games were FATigue.
all kool aid all the time.
joec32033
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10/15/2006  12:39 PM
~You can't run from who you are.~
SugarRayRichardson
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10/15/2006  12:49 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:

Some Knicks under LB last season had great games followed by dnps. Thats not excusing EC totally but there were agendas at work with LB tht sure didnt help the case.

Yeah, but the problem is Curry never got a DNP. He was consistently the starting center, never pulled early (unless in foul trouble-which he himself is responsible for).

I can see where you can make a case like that for Frye, Lee, Nate, etc....Curry, IMO, is not one that has that argument because Larry really never yanked him around.

Never pulled early or yanked around? You have to be kidding me. I remember one game he started with 12 points on 5 shots with 5 rebs and 2 blocks and he was yanked for no reason. He was dominating and not tired at all. He sat on the bench for about 25 real time not game time minutes and by the time he got back he went from red hot to ice cold.

This is very accurate. Lb also never let him play through fouls even when the game was a fore-gone-conclusion and we were like 80 games under 500.

I remember the Philly when Curry put up 5/5. He got off to a slow start was just benched. LB never gave him a chance to fight through it.

The Indy game was a blow-out in our favor and the entire 3rd quarter was garbage time.

Hopefully, Isiah will let him play through fouls this yr.

Like I said, even if I give you that-which for the sake of argument I will give you-Curry had many games where he was horrible. That does not explain his bad games. He had 11 games under 5 and 5 plus his rebounding was very poor.

LB always had the philosophy of defend and rebound or you don't play. Nothing new. Curry had alot of points, not alot of boards. LB was in a teaching mode here, so I can understand why he did it. Do I agree with it-not really, but I understand why he did it.

That 11 number was not true.
Its hard to debate with people that make things up.
The number of games he had 5points and 5rebounds or less was 7 not 11 and in those (7)he was hurt in 2 of those games. So that brings it down to 5 games in my mind. One he played 5 minutes in and another 13 minutes in.
I LOVED how Curry just exploded in the 4th, speaking as a fan of the Raptors, Curry looked well, scary I think is the word. Or Shaq-like Curry: 19.1ppg-7.3rpg-58%fg
wsdm
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10/15/2006  12:57 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:

Some Knicks under LB last season had great games followed by dnps. Thats not excusing EC totally but there were agendas at work with LB tht sure didnt help the case.

Yeah, but the problem is Curry never got a DNP. He was consistently the starting center, never pulled early (unless in foul trouble-which he himself is responsible for).

I can see where you can make a case like that for Frye, Lee, Nate, etc....Curry, IMO, is not one that has that argument because Larry really never yanked him around.

Never pulled early or yanked around? You have to be kidding me. I remember one game he started with 12 points on 5 shots with 5 rebs and 2 blocks and he was yanked for no reason. He was dominating and not tired at all. He sat on the bench for about 25 real time not game time minutes and by the time he got back he went from red hot to ice cold.

This is very accurate. Lb also never let him play through fouls even when the game was a fore-gone-conclusion and we were like 80 games under 500.

I remember the Philly when Curry put up 5/5. He got off to a slow start was just benched. LB never gave him a chance to fight through it.

The Indy game was a blow-out in our favor and the entire 3rd quarter was garbage time.

Hopefully, Isiah will let him play through fouls this yr.

Like I said, even if I give you that-which for the sake of argument I will give you-Curry had many games where he was horrible. That does not explain his bad games. He had 11 games under 5 and 5 plus his rebounding was very poor.

LB always had the philosophy of defend and rebound or you don't play.
That's what I thought until I saw him start Malik and play a lot of bad players ahead of the young guys.
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Killa4luv
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10/15/2006  1:01 PM
Posted by wsdm:

That's what I thought until I saw him start Malik and play a lot of bad players ahead of the young guys.
Malik Rose single handely sucked us into loses on more than one occasion. He was allowed to make a succesion of turnovers as he tried to display his offensive 'talents'. He was not yanked. LB sabotaged us. Curry was dominant in some games and then was sat for 20 minutes of game time. LB sabotaged, there is no question about that.
rvhoss
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10/15/2006  1:03 PM
joey joe joe...what do you have to say about SugarRay's research?

With google so readily available, you would think you would be called out on this one.

I'm so disappointed I can't take you're crazy anti knicks posts as factual anymore.


I'm just hoping the knicks lose a pre-season game so IslesFat, Mck1 and AllanFan can have something to post.
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:
Posted by joec32033:


Like I said, even if I give you that-which for the sake of argument I will give you-Curry had many games where he was horrible. That does not explain his bad games. He had 11 games under 5 and 5 plus his rebounding was very poor.

LB always had the philosophy of defend and rebound or you don't play. Nothing new. Curry had alot of points, not alot of boards. LB was in a teaching mode here, so I can understand why he did it. Do I agree with it-not really, but I understand why he did it.

That 11 number was not true.
Its hard to debate with people that make things up.
The number of games he had 5points and 5rebounds or less was 7 not 11 and in those (7)he was hurt in 2 of those games. So that brings it down to 5 games in my mind. One he played 5 minutes in and another 13 minutes in.

all kool aid all the time.
martin
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10/15/2006  1:27 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by wsdm:

That's what I thought until I saw him start Malik and play a lot of bad players ahead of the young guys.
Malik Rose single handely sucked us into loses on more than one occasion. He was allowed to make a succesion of turnovers as he tried to display his offensive 'talents'. He was not yanked. LB sabotaged us. Curry was dominant in some games and then was sat for 20 minutes of game time. LB sabotaged, there is no question about that.

all I have to say is that LB cant pass the ball to Malik in the post, that's the PGs job.
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TheGame
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10/15/2006  1:29 PM
all I have to say is that LB cant pass the ball to Malik in the post, that's the PGs job.

Wait a minute, so know the PGs are not supposed to the run the plays LB was calling?
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TheGame
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10/15/2006  1:31 PM
all I have to say is that LB cant pass the ball to Malik in the post, that's the PGs job.

Wait a minute, so know now the PGs are not supposed to the run the plays LB was calling?

LB made Malik an offensive option because he knew he was not up to the task.
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rvhoss
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10/15/2006  1:35 PM
grasping at straws
1. trying to find reasons to feel hopeful about a bad situation. He thinks he can still defend Larry Brown by bringing up other reasons for his failure, but I think he's clutching at straws.
2. trying to find some way to succeed when nothing you choose is likely to work. the poster, grasping at straws, searched for some other reason for the knicks sucking last year, looking in the wrong direction.
all kool aid all the time.
tomverve
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10/15/2006  1:45 PM
When Malik gets passed the ball, it's the PG's fault for passing, not LB's for calling the play. When we trade for Francis and Rose, it's the GM's fault for trading, not LB's for begging to get those guys. One bad preseason game is enough to confirm that Curry is still a fat lazy slob, but one good preseason game is not enough to disconfirm it. Nevermind that we're basing all of this on a grand total of two preseason games.

There is really little point to debating things like this when the criteria for deciding how to parse out blame shift as a function of to whom you want to dole out blame to begin with. You might as well say "I like this guy and I don't like that guy" and just leave it at that, because in effect that is all that's going on anyway, just in disguised form.
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Silverfuel
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10/15/2006  1:53 PM
excellent post tomverve.
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Elite
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10/15/2006  2:19 PM
Posted by tomverve:

When Malik gets passed the ball, it's the PG's fault for passing, not LB's for calling the play. When we trade for Francis and Rose, it's the GM's fault for trading, not LB's for begging to get those guys. One bad preseason game is enough to confirm that Curry is still a fat lazy slob, but one good preseason game is not enough to disconfirm it. Nevermind that we're basing all of this on a grand total of two preseason games.

There is really little point to debating things like this when the criteria for deciding how to parse out blame shift as a function of to whom you want to dole out blame to begin with. You might as well say "I like this guy and I don't like that guy" and just leave it at that, because in effect that is all that's going on anyway, just in disguised form.

The thing is, i LIKE Eddy Curry and im hoping.. no more than that.. IM PREYING that he will be better this year!!! I just started this post based on how he played yesterday.. And his physical appearence etc.... I will have a hard time shifting my perception untill he plays a solid 40 minutes or i can SEE him play differently than last year
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10/15/2006  2:22 PM
Posted by TheGame:
all I have to say is that LB cant pass the ball to Malik in the post, that's the PGs job.

Wait a minute, so know now the PGs are not supposed to the run the plays LB was calling?

LB made Malik an offensive option because he knew he was not up to the task.

mostly I was posting just to show how unsubstantiated the original was. I mean, we all can be easily convinced that LB was calling plays for Malik all season long and the was cause for sabotage?

here it is again:
Malik Rose single handely sucked us into loses on more than one occasion. He was allowed to make a succesion of turnovers as he tried to display his offensive 'talents'. He was not yanked. LB sabotaged us. Curry was dominant in some games and then was sat for 20 minutes of game time. LB sabotaged, there is no question about that.

Substitue the first two words for Eddie Curry and you can say the same things, right?

Malik AVERAGED 15 minutes a game, so apparently he WAS yanked and limited by the coach. Malik only got the minutes he did because AD was traded and the Knicks had ZERO PF rebounding (outside of the SF play by Lee) and defense. Malik most likely went into the post cause he is a super active, always-wanting-to-get-involved guy, not cause plays were run for him. Also, besides Curry, who were the other post players for the Knicks?

Voila.
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joec32033
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10/15/2006  2:22 PM
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:

Some Knicks under LB last season had great games followed by dnps. Thats not excusing EC totally but there were agendas at work with LB tht sure didnt help the case.

Yeah, but the problem is Curry never got a DNP. He was consistently the starting center, never pulled early (unless in foul trouble-which he himself is responsible for).

I can see where you can make a case like that for Frye, Lee, Nate, etc....Curry, IMO, is not one that has that argument because Larry really never yanked him around.

Never pulled early or yanked around? You have to be kidding me. I remember one game he started with 12 points on 5 shots with 5 rebs and 2 blocks and he was yanked for no reason. He was dominating and not tired at all. He sat on the bench for about 25 real time not game time minutes and by the time he got back he went from red hot to ice cold.

This is very accurate. Lb also never let him play through fouls even when the game was a fore-gone-conclusion and we were like 80 games under 500.

I remember the Philly when Curry put up 5/5. He got off to a slow start was just benched. LB never gave him a chance to fight through it.

The Indy game was a blow-out in our favor and the entire 3rd quarter was garbage time.

Hopefully, Isiah will let him play through fouls this yr.

Like I said, even if I give you that-which for the sake of argument I will give you-Curry had many games where he was horrible. That does not explain his bad games. He had 11 games under 5 and 5 plus his rebounding was very poor.

LB always had the philosophy of defend and rebound or you don't play. Nothing new. Curry had alot of points, not alot of boards. LB was in a teaching mode here, so I can understand why he did it. Do I agree with it-not really, but I understand why he did it.

That 11 number was not true.
Its hard to debate with people that make things up.
The number of games he had 5points and 5rebounds or less was 7 not 11 and in those (7)he was hurt in 2 of those games. So that brings it down to 5 games in my mind. One he played 5 minutes in and another 13 minutes in.

Which games did he have a hangnail? Which games did he have a tummy ache? Go look at a player like Ewing, Duncan, whoever...tell me how many 5 and 5 games they put up? Too good of a players? Ok, Try Jamal Magloire. A guy with 1/10th the potential of Curry-http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3418/gamelog;_ylt=AuoIBObccIdV2q3JW3wagT6kvLYF-. Try Ilgauskis, another guy that has 1/10th Curry's potential-http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3121/gamelog;_ylt=AmDtuqVhoWaAc4UkYebiTx2kvLYF-.

LB's fault? Here look at Curry's history-http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3514/gamelog;_ylt=ArNo7qQGtwtT.l4Jjbpr1VikvLYF?year=2004
2004-2005- Curry didn't even sniff 10 rebounds from Feb 15th to when he stopped playing on March 28. He had 12 rebounds on Feb 15th. His high rebounds between Dec 19(he had 13 rebounds) and Feb 15th was 9(once) and 8 (once). That is in 2 MONTHS of solid play where he missed one game. Look at this-Nov 13 and 16 he had 10 and 11 rebounds, respectively. His next 2 games (Nov 17 and 19) he had 2 and 4. Nov 21 and 22 he had 11 and 9 rebounds respectively. His next two games 2 and 4(Nov 24th and 27th). Dec 1st he had 10 boards. Took him a week to grab over 5 again (9 on Dec. 8). He had another 9 on Dec 11, and then took another week (5, rebs., 6 rebs., 5 rebs., in his 3 consecutive games) before he grabbed 13 on Dec. 18th.

This is called a pattern. He is doing the exact same thing here. He did the exact same thing under LB. But when LB sat him for not rebounding like a center, now he is getting yanked around. He score well in all those games, though, I will give you that. At least he got his points.
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crzymdups
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10/15/2006  2:29 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by TheGame:
all I have to say is that LB cant pass the ball to Malik in the post, that's the PGs job.

Wait a minute, so know now the PGs are not supposed to the run the plays LB was calling?

LB made Malik an offensive option because he knew he was not up to the task.

mostly I was posting just to show how unsubstantiated the original was. I mean, we all can be easily convinced that LB was calling plays for Malik all season long and the was cause for sabotage?

here it is again:
Malik Rose single handely sucked us into loses on more than one occasion. He was allowed to make a succesion of turnovers as he tried to display his offensive 'talents'. He was not yanked. LB sabotaged us. Curry was dominant in some games and then was sat for 20 minutes of game time. LB sabotaged, there is no question about that.

Substitue the first two words for Eddie Curry and you can say the same things, right?

Malik AVERAGED 15 minutes a game, so apparently he WAS yanked and limited by the coach. Malik only got the minutes he did because AD was traded and the Knicks had ZERO PF rebounding (outside of the SF play by Lee) and defense. Malik most likely went into the post cause he is a super active, always-wanting-to-get-involved guy, not cause plays were run for him. Also, besides Curry, who were the other post players for the Knicks?

Voila.

if Malik played so sparingly and Larry Brown had nothing to do with it, why did Malik miss three potential game-tying shots in thefinal minute over the first five games last year? did Marbury sneak Malik into the game when Larry wasn't looking? come on. Malik didn't play a ton of minutes, but it was WHEN he played. He also played the same ammount of TOTAL minutes that DLee did over the year and almost 400 total minutes more than Jackie Butler, neither of whom were ever injured. I just don't understand defending Brown for any reason.
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joec32033
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10/15/2006  2:36 PM
Posted by tomverve:

When Malik gets passed the ball, it's the PG's fault for passing, not LB's for calling the play. When we trade for Francis and Rose, it's the GM's fault for trading, not LB's for begging to get those guys. One bad preseason game is enough to confirm that Curry is still a fat lazy slob, but one good preseason game is not enough to disconfirm it. Nevermind that we're basing all of this on a grand total of two preseason games.

There is really little point to debating things like this when the criteria for deciding how to parse out blame shift as a function of to whom you want to dole out blame to begin with. You might as well say "I like this guy and I don't like that guy" and just leave it at that, because in effect that is all that's going on anyway, just in disguised form.

The flips side to the argument Tom, is that when Curry does bad it was because of LB. When he does good it's becausr Curry is just that good.
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Eddy Curry is the EXACT SAME player as he was last year
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