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Knicks want Jeffries!
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metra
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7/18/2006  3:18 PM
Agreed. All I was saying is to bring JJ in for defense and character/hustle - not to go gaga over some skills that he obviously doesn't have and which we don't need anyway (scoring).

As to how much to pay him? I'm not sure but one of those guys put it well:
If you want to spend MLE money on that type of player, go right ahead. I think he's worth half that, but the KNicks need roleplayers, so they might overpay. It wouldn't be the first time.

I just hope we don't overpay too many player so as to completely remove us from the running for LeBron's class.
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gunsnewing
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7/18/2006  3:23 PM
trading draft picks for Curry/Taylor and not trading Steph to Atlanta for Harrington, expiring contracts & picks is what takes us out of the running for Lebron's class. Not slightly overpaying for a role player who can easily be packaged once a superstar becomes available in 3yrs
metra
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7/18/2006  3:25 PM
Gotta start making smart moves somewhere. He'll be even easier to package if we don't overpay him, no?
nyk4ever
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7/18/2006  3:27 PM
Posted by metra:

Gotta start making smart moves somewhere. He'll be even easier to package if we don't overpay him, no?

Much easier. Glad we see eye to eye now. I don't see how he could get more than the MLE, the MLE is right on par what he should get from any team, not just the Knicks.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 07-18-2006 3:27 PM]
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gunsnewing
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7/18/2006  3:29 PM
I don't here about other teams knocking on the wizards door so i think offering him 3yrs at $4-5mm is fair but this is the knicks so we'll problably give him the full 5yrs at 30mm

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 07-18-2006 3:31 PM]
Finestrg
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7/18/2006  3:31 PM
Posted by metra:
Posted by fishmike:

Look at the teams Jeffries has played on. He's never been asked to score. He CAN score if need be.
He can defend multiple positions and defend GOOD players
He's an excellent rebounder
He's a good passer
He has a good handle. Kind of guy that can rip a rebound and start pushing the ball upcourt.
He's 24

A 5 year MLE type deal is good for him. Well worth it IMO. These are the kinds of guys we should have been targeting all along

What the hell?

Jeffries IS NOT A SCORER. Don't fool yourself. Go to some wiz boards and ask the guys there. Go to realgm's thread on the kid and you'll find wiz fans there saying he doesn't score. Finally, think about it logically. A scorer WILL ALWAYS find a way to score. All this guy does putbacks and breakaways. There would be some hard evidence (through shooting, drives, whatever) that a player can score - not through lucky/hustle baskets. Just cause he's on a team with scorers doesn't mean he can't show glimpses of being a 15ppg guy. His career high is 20pts over 4 years!

He's a defender, I'll give you that. That's all he is.

Excellent rebounder? For a guy that's 6-11, averaging 5 boards a game really isn't anything to marvel at. Again, stop fooling yourself.

Good passer? I guess you got that from his whopping 2 assists per game.

Good handle? Woods, Richardson, and Balkman can all "rip a rebound and start pushing the ball upcourt." Richardson and Woods can both get 5rpg and Balkman.. well we'll find out. They all have fine handle.

5 years is too long (don't we want LeBron, Melo, etc.?) and MLE is too much. He's simply an above average defender. How is he getting hyped up so much?

Exactly Metra. You're right on with this analysis. Frankly, I see a Tim Thomas (athletic and size-wise at least) without the offensive game Timmy has. Maybe that's too harsh, as he's willing to play a little D and TT couldn't defend me, but seriously come on guys, I honestly don't see where all the hype surrounding Jared Jefferies is coming from. Just because all of a sudden he might be available?

Keep in mind, esp. when we consider the drafting of Oleksiy Pecherov at #18 in the 1st round and the recent Darius Songalia signing, the Wizards appear to be going in a different direction with their frontcourt. Jefferies looks like a player the Wizards are probably content letting go. Maybe not (they still have room for him and we've only started the free agency period a few days ago) but it's a good possibility they don't resign him. Think about that for a second. It's the Wizards we're talking about. You mean to tell me that they can't use (to use some of my fellow posters' words, "a 24 yr. old, 6'10"-6'11", 240 lb. lock down defender who can play the 2,3,4 and 5 spots"??? Of course they can as can as every other team in the league could. Point is he's not nearly as good as some of you guys are making him out to be. We're not talking Dennis Rodman here folks (and I agree with most that the Balkman comparisons to Rodman are a joke also). It sounds like a lot of you guys are talking about a guy like Shane Battier when you talk about Jefferies. No way. Or a Derrick McKey in his prime. He's not even close to being the complete players (or even the defensive players) that these guys are/were. Not even close.

I'd call him a guy who has a little athletic ability to him, a guy with a nice NBA body, and a willing defender (which is nice considering he's young and most guys only concern themselves with scoring when they come in the league - I agree with you there). But come on now, defend the 2 spot? You gotta be kidding me. And while we're at it, what quick/skilled 3s or big/imposing 5s in this league is he really guarding? Oh yeah, not to mention the fact that he's not really effective at all on the offensive end. A classic 'tweener in every sense of the word and thus far in his career, for a guy who was taken 11th in the 2002 draft (and now going on his 2nd contract), has been, I hesitate to say bust, but a substantial underachiever.

And some of you guys want him on the Knicks??? Where does he fit in with us exactly? You guys really want this kid in here taking PT away from Frye, Lee or a healthly Q-Rich? 'Cause that's what we're talking about. Man, I don't. I pass on this guy...
gunsnewing
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7/18/2006  3:37 PM
Posted by Finestrg:
Posted by metra:
Posted by fishmike:

Look at the teams Jeffries has played on. He's never been asked to score. He CAN score if need be.
He can defend multiple positions and defend GOOD players
He's an excellent rebounder
He's a good passer
He has a good handle. Kind of guy that can rip a rebound and start pushing the ball upcourt.
He's 24

A 5 year MLE type deal is good for him. Well worth it IMO. These are the kinds of guys we should have been targeting all along

What the hell?

Jeffries IS NOT A SCORER. Don't fool yourself. Go to some wiz boards and ask the guys there. Go to realgm's thread on the kid and you'll find wiz fans there saying he doesn't score. Finally, think about it logically. A scorer WILL ALWAYS find a way to score. All this guy does putbacks and breakaways. There would be some hard evidence (through shooting, drives, whatever) that a player can score - not through lucky/hustle baskets. Just cause he's on a team with scorers doesn't mean he can't show glimpses of being a 15ppg guy. His career high is 20pts over 4 years!

He's a defender, I'll give you that. That's all he is.

Excellent rebounder? For a guy that's 6-11, averaging 5 boards a game really isn't anything to marvel at. Again, stop fooling yourself.

Good passer? I guess you got that from his whopping 2 assists per game.

Good handle? Woods, Richardson, and Balkman can all "rip a rebound and start pushing the ball upcourt." Richardson and Woods can both get 5rpg and Balkman.. well we'll find out. They all have fine handle.

5 years is too long (don't we want LeBron, Melo, etc.?) and MLE is too much. He's simply an above average defender. How is he getting hyped up so much?

Exactly Metra. You're right on with this analysis. Frankly, I see a Tim Thomas (athletic and size-wise at least) without the offensive game Timmy has. Maybe that's too harsh, as he's willing to play a little D and TT couldn't defend me, but seriously come on guys, I honestly don't see where all the hype surrounding Jared Jefferies is coming from. Just because all of a sudden he might be available?

Keep in mind, esp. when we consider the drafting of Oleksiy Pecherov at #18 in the 1st round and the recent Darius Songalia signing, the Wizards appear to be going in a different direction with their frontcourt. Jefferies looks like a player the Wizards are probably content letting go. Maybe not (they still have room for him and we've only started the free agency period a few days ago) but it's a good possibility they don't resign him. Think about that for a second. It's the Wizards we're talking about. You mean to tell me that they can't use (to use some of my fellow posters' words, "a 24 yr. old, 6'10"-6'11", 240 lb. lock down defender who can play the 2,3,4 and 5 spots"??? Of course they can as can as every other team in the league could. Point is he's not nearly as good as some of you guys are making him out to be. We're not talking Dennis Rodman here folks (and I agree with most that the Balkman comparisons to Rodman are a joke also). It sounds like a lot of you guys are talking about a guy like Shane Battier when you talk about Jefferies. No way. Or a Derrick McKey in his prime. He's not even close to being the complete players (or even the defensive players) that these guys are/were. Not even close.

I'd call him a guy who has a little athletic ability to him, a guy with a nice NBA body, and a willing defender (which is nice considering he's young and most guys only concern themselves with scoring when they come in the league - I agree with you there). But come on now, defend the 2 spot? You gotta be kidding me. And while we're at it, what quick/skilled 3s or big/imposing 5s in this league is he really guarding? Oh yeah, not to mention the fact that he's not really effective at all on the offensive end. A classic 'tweener in every sense of the word and thus far in his career, for a guy who was taken 11th in the 2002 draft (and now going on his 2nd contract), has been, I hesitate to say bust, but a substantial underachiever.

And some of you guys want him on the Knicks??? Where does he fit in with us exactly? You guys really want this kid in here taking PT away from Frye, Lee or a healthly Q-Rich? 'Cause that's what we're talking about. Man, I don't. I pass on this guy...


damn good post. its the reason I'm a little reserved about losing Woods and having Balkman's minutes cut and at the same time overpaying but Jeffries would problably help us more now so I'll be happy either way. I've been watching the wizards for years and remember the hype when he came out of college. when I think of Jeffries I think of a 6-11 tweener who never lived up to his potential. But I constantly I constantly see the TV guys say how he's the best defender on the Wizards which doesn't say a lot but at least we know he specializes in playing defense which we can use.

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 07-18-2006 4:16 PM]
nixluva
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7/18/2006  3:40 PM
Adding Jeffries won't take PT away afrom Frye or Lee. It would eliminate any chance of jalen, Malik or Mo playing. We don't need greatness from our role players just guys to do all the little things and to make out team D much more effective. We'll always have an athletic and long defensive minded player in there if you add Jeff. Frye, Curr, Jeffries, Lee, QRich & Balkman looks pretty solid to me. We don't need scoring from Jeffries. Tho I expect he'll do just fine in this system.
gunsnewing
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7/18/2006  3:43 PM
Shane Bsttier the quintessential role player just got the full MLE 5yrs $30mm from Houston. I don't think Jeffries warrants as much so I would give him 3yrs in the $15mm range
BigC
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7/18/2006  3:55 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by fishmike:

Look at the teams Jeffries has played on. He's never been asked to score. He CAN score if need be.
He can defend multiple positions and defend GOOD players
He's an excellent rebounder
He's a good passer
He has a good handle. Kind of guy that can rip a rebound and start pushing the ball upcourt.
He's 24

A 5 year MLE type deal is good for him. Well worth it IMO. These are the kinds of guys we should have been targeting all along


yeah Isiah is finally learning how to build a team thanks to LB. Instead of going after severely overpaying for guys like Tim Thomas, Crawford, Taylor, Q, JJ & Curry

What makes you think that Larry Brown has help Isiah build a team?

What team has Larry built? As far as going after overpaid players. As far as I know, Paxson was forced to trade Curry. He did not want to let him go, but was forced to trade Curry by his agent. You mentioned TT but Larry said he wanted TT to stay on the team but was dissappointed that TT was not here to be coached by Larry.

Also, if Larry was behind the signing of Francis and Rose aren't they overpaid player that don't play d?

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gunsnewing
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7/18/2006  3:56 PM
Posted by nixluva:

Adding Jeffries won't take PT away afrom Frye or Lee. It would eliminate any chance of jalen, Malik or Mo playing. We don't need greatness from our role players just guys to do all the little things and to make out team D much more effective. We'll always have an athletic and long defensive minded player in there if you add Jeff. Frye, Curr, Jeffries, Lee, QRich & Balkman looks pretty solid to me. We don't need scoring from Jeffries. Tho I expect he'll do just fine in this system.


so the 10man rotation will be:
Curry
Frye
Jeffries
Francis
Marbury
Crawford
Lee
Balkman
Q
Nate
-------
James
Jalen
Collins
Taylor
-------Maximum roster size is 14
Malik

Maximum roster size is 14 right so someone else in addition to Woods & Butler would have to go




BigC
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7/18/2006  4:00 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by nixluva:

Adding Jeffries won't take PT away afrom Frye or Lee. It would eliminate any chance of jalen, Malik or Mo playing. We don't need greatness from our role players just guys to do all the little things and to make out team D much more effective. We'll always have an athletic and long defensive minded player in there if you add Jeff. Frye, Curr, Jeffries, Lee, QRich & Balkman looks pretty solid to me. We don't need scoring from Jeffries. Tho I expect he'll do just fine in this system.

.


so the 10man rotation will be:
Curry
Frye
Jeffries
Francis
Marbury
Crawford
Lee
Balkman
Q
Nate
-------
James
Jalen
Collins
Taylor
-------Maximum roster size is 14
Malik

Maximum roster size is 14 right so someone else in addition to Woods & Butler would have to go


There is no way Jalen does not see pt. The guy that might be the odd man out is Nate or Balkman. Jalen and James will be in the rotation one way or another

[Edited by - BigC on 07-18-2006 4:00 PM]
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gunsnewing
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7/18/2006  4:06 PM
There is no way Jalen does not see pt. The guy that might be the odd man out is Nate or Balkman. Jalen and James will be in the rotation one way or another

[Edited by - BigC on 07-18-2006 4:00 PM]

I agree but a lot of people are expecting Nate & Balk to be part of the rotation because they fit the system Isiah is implementing better...so which one is it lol?


[Edited by - gunsnewing on 07-18-2006 4:19 PM]
nyk4ever
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7/18/2006  4:09 PM
Posted by Finestrg:



Exactly Metra. You're right on with this analysis. Frankly, I see a Tim Thomas (athletic and size-wise at least) without the offensive game Timmy has. Maybe that's too harsh, as he's willing to play a little D and TT couldn't defend me, but seriously come on guys, I honestly don't see where all the hype surrounding Jared Jefferies is coming from. Just because all of a sudden he might be available?
I've been after Jeffries for a long time now, so this hardly comes just because he is suddenly available. Jeffries plays more than just a little D, he plays alot of D. It's refreshing to see a player who doesn't thrive on offense who was a lottery pick earn his keep by playing very good defense against many different types of players. If you don't think the Knicks need a player of Jeffries Defensive ilk your kidding yourself. The Knicks are in dire need for what he brings to the table. You guys make it sound like he'll brick a layup, he won't. He's not a great shooter, we know that but he will make shots around the basket becuase he's a very active player. The Knicks don't need him taking shots, they need him cleaning up and cutting(with Isiah's new offense, this is very logical and possible for him to get alot of easy baskets) around the basket.
Think about that for a second. It's the Wizards we're talking about. You mean to tell me that they can't use (to use some of my fellow posters' words, "a 24 yr. old, 6'10"-6'11", 240 lb. lock down defender who can play the 2,3,4 and 5 spots"??? Of course they can as can as every other team in the league could. Point is he's not nearly as good as some of you guys are making him out to be. We're not talking Dennis Rodman here folks (and I agree with most that the Balkman comparisons to Rodman are a joke also). It sounds like a lot of you guys are talking about a guy like Shane Battier when you talk about Jefferies. No way. Or a Derrick McKey in his prime. He's not even close to being the complete players (or even the defensive players) that these guys are/were. Not even close.
The Wizards have soured quickly on alot of their recent draft picks. Kwame, Jeffries, Juan Dixon, the list goes on. No one is calling Jeffries Dennis Rodman, there are absolutely no similiarties. Guys like Shane Battier are worth their weight in gold because you don't find them too often and Jeffries is that. The guy will show up every night, give you tough hard-nosed defense and you will see it on the floor because he forces opposing coaches to change their offensive scheme when he's guarding the teams best player as effectively as he does. That alone is enough for me sign him. Defense is constantly overlooked nowadays, aside from the Spurs and Pistons teams of the world.
I'd call him a guy who has a little athletic ability to him, a guy with a nice NBA body, and a willing defender (which is nice considering he's young and most guys only concern themselves with scoring when they come in the league - I agree with you there). But come on now, defend the 2 spot? You gotta be kidding me. And while we're at it, what quick/skilled 3s or big/imposing 5s in this league is he really guarding? Oh yeah, not to mention the fact that he's not really effective at all on the offensive end. A classic 'tweener in every sense of the word and thus far in his career, for a guy who was taken 11th in the 2002 draft (and now going on his 2nd contract), has been, I hesitate to say bust, but a substantial underachiever.

And some of you guys want him on the Knicks??? Where does he fit in with us exactly? You guys really want this kid in here taking PT away from Frye, Lee or a healthly Q-Rich? 'Cause that's what we're talking about. Man, I don't. I pass on this guy...

First off he wouldn't be taking time away from Frye, Lee or a "healthy" Q-Rich (who never seems to be healthy to begin with) Jeffries would be the teams starting 3man, a spot that is left wide-open right now. Assuming the Knicks are starting Marbury/Francis/Frye/Curry there is an absolute glaring need for someone who can guard the opposisitions best player(whether it's SG/SF/PF/C) and provide all around good defense. Many say they want Lee starting at the 3 but Lee is nowhere near quick enough to guard opposing 3's where Jeffries is. The Knicks need him there.

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BigC
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7/18/2006  4:17 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
There is no way Jalen does not see pt. The guy that might be the odd man out is Nate or Balkman. Jalen and James will be in the rotation one way or another

[Edited by - BigC on 07-18-2006 4:00 PM]

I agree but a lot of people are expecting Nate & Balk will be part of the rotation because they fit the system Isiah is implementing better...so which one is it lol?

Balkman might get some pt during blowout games or a few game do to injuries but he will not be part of the major rotation. As far Nate he might have hated Larry but Isiah might not play him either. Or not until Francis is traded.

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7/19/2006  12:47 PM
One person posted that in 3 years a $6mill salary is easily moveable...so why the hating on jeromeJames?

I also liked the statement that lebron shot 50% and scored 35 points...hard to argue with that defensive logic.

after reading the posts, I'd rather sign Qwoods and Reezy combined for the MLE.

We'd have jeffries that could score and has been on the team.
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7/19/2006  2:56 PM
Posted by BigC:
Posted by gunsnewing:
There is no way Jalen does not see pt. The guy that might be the odd man out is Nate or Balkman. Jalen and James will be in the rotation one way or another

[Edited by - BigC on 07-18-2006 4:00 PM]

I agree but a lot of people are expecting Nate & Balk will be part of the rotation because they fit the system Isiah is implementing better...so which one is it lol?

Balkman might get some pt during blowout games or a few game do to injuries but he will not be part of the major rotation. As far Nate he might have hated Larry but Isiah might not play him either. Or not until Francis is traded.


personally, i'm willing to bet that Balkman is challenging for the starting SF spot by the Allstar break.
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7/19/2006  2:57 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by BigC:
Posted by gunsnewing:
There is no way Jalen does not see pt. The guy that might be the odd man out is Nate or Balkman. Jalen and James will be in the rotation one way or another

[Edited by - BigC on 07-18-2006 4:00 PM]

I agree but a lot of people are expecting Nate & Balk will be part of the rotation because they fit the system Isiah is implementing better...so which one is it lol?

Balkman might get some pt during blowout games or a few game do to injuries but he will not be part of the major rotation. As far Nate he might have hated Larry but Isiah might not play him either. Or not until Francis is traded.


personally, i'm willing to bet that Balkman is challenging for the starting SF spot by the Allstar break.

Starting SF of which D-League team, sir?
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7/19/2006  2:58 PM
Posted by TMS:

personally, i'm willing to bet that Balkman is challenging for the starting SF spot by the Allstar break.

I agree. I think he'll get 20mpg minimum.
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7/19/2006  2:58 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

One person posted that in 3 years a $6mill salary is easily moveable...so why the hating on jeromeJames?

because other than the Knicks, most teams in the NBA like to get some production at least for the millions of dollars they're spending.
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Knicks want Jeffries!

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