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Larry Brown: Balkman A 'Potential Steal'
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BRIGGS
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7/16/2006  10:40 PM
Posted by TMS:

whether the pick was "wasted" or not, the bottomline is whether or not this kid can come in here & improve this team defensively & make an impact worthy of having been a #20 pick... contrary to what certain experts may feel would have or would not have happened, the fact of the matter is there are no guarantees that Balkman would have still been on the boards when the Knicks turn to pick w/the #29 came up, so it's really pointless for you guys to keep harping on the fact that Isiah took him too early at #20 at this point.

Bottomline for me personally is this: IMO Marcus Williams would have had much less of an impact on this team than Balkman has the potential to have this year because he'd be playing behind both Marbury & Francis, & Isiah is trying to groom Nate into a PG as well, whereas i think Balkman will be starting games by the end of the season if he does the things on the court that Isiah, LB & some other scouts seem to believe he can do.

I don't see Balkman having an impact next year. They should think hard about utilyzing the NBDL, atleast for 20 games or so, in order for Blakman to play 40 minutes and work on his shooting. The way he scored in the SL isnt going to be there in the BIG show. Let him go establish himself playing the game and enhancing some raw skills, while working with a PT to put on 10+ PDS.
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Bonn1997
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7/16/2006  10:42 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by TMS:

whether the pick was "wasted" or not, the bottomline is whether or not this kid can come in here & improve this team defensively & make an impact worthy of having been a #20 pick... contrary to what certain experts may feel would have or would not have happened, the fact of the matter is there are no guarantees that Balkman would have still been on the boards when the Knicks turn to pick w/the #29 came up, so it's really pointless for you guys to keep harping on the fact that Isiah took him too early at #20 at this point.

Bottomline for me personally is this: IMO Marcus Williams would have had much less of an impact on this team than Balkman has the potential to have this year because he'd be playing behind both Marbury & Francis, & Isiah is trying to groom Nate into a PG as well, whereas i think Balkman will be starting games by the end of the season if he does the things on the court that Isiah, LB & some other scouts seem to believe he can do.

I don't see Balkman having an impact next year. They should think hard about utilyzing the NBDL, atleast for 20 games or so, in order for Blakman to play 40 minutes and work on his shooting. The way he scored in the SL isnt going to be there in the BIG show. Let him go establish himself playing the game and enhancing some raw skills, while working with a PT to put on 10+ PDS.
But it will be for Bynum, right?

joec32033
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7/16/2006  10:45 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:

sometimes drafting for need doesn't work (Frederic Weiss over Ron Artest)... sometimes drafting the "best player available" & ignoring team needs doesn't work either (Sweetney over Josh Howard)... the draft is always a crap shoot that can't be fully judged until you see how these guys actually perform on the NBA level.
I'd agree with that and I bet drafting Josh Howard @ #9 with then big names like Mike Sweetney and Nick Collison available would have been viewed as awful value. It would have been the right decision, though. (And no, I'm saying Balkman is the next Josh Howard but rather that you can draft a no-name player 20 spots above where he's projected and ahead of big name players and still be right.)

I agree with this statement, but most of the guys that are drafted so far ahead of where they are projected all had dynamic, or at the very least performed above average offensively on the college level.

The guy we drafted is a one dimensional player. And that dimension is defense. One dimensional defensive players are rarely game changing (Ben Wallace is the exception not the rule, Artest can average 20+, Bowen is a role player who took years to develop his skill where it is).

Developing defense is totally different than developing your offense. Alot of the BEST defensive players learn little tricks to hide stuff...a jersey grab here, an elbow there....that takes years-and is alot harder-to develop.
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Bonn1997
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7/16/2006  10:48 PM
It's hard to call defense "one" dimension. There's man-to-man defense, help defense, defensive rebounds, steals.
TMS
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7/16/2006  10:53 PM
bottomline is this: all this speculation on whether or not the Knicks got good value out of the pick is moot until you see how these guys perform on the NBA level... that's why i say hold out on final judgement on the pick until you get a better sample than just a few NIT tournament games you guys may have seen last year.
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joec32033
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7/16/2006  10:53 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

It's hard to call defense "one" dimension. There's man-to-man defense, help defense, defensive rebounds, steals.

Defense is one dimensional. It is one part of the game. Offense is another part. You break down offense into Layups, 3 pointers, mid range shots, post ups, drop steps, cross overs, off the dribble sub categories when breaking down a guy? No, you don't you say he is a great offensive player who can't play defense or he is a great defensive player who can't play the other end of the floor.

Don't try the symantics, bro, you know what I meant.
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simrud
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7/16/2006  10:53 PM
I dunno about everybody else but why not wate alittle more before passing judgment on Balkman? I'd like to see him play at lest in preseason. So far looks like he is exactly what we thought he woudl be, an energy player. Guys like him usually develop a shot later, if they become more of an impact. We'll see.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
4949
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7/16/2006  10:55 PM
Posted by simrud:

I dunno about everybody else but why not wate alittle more before passing judgment on Balkman? I'd like to see him play at lest in preseason. So far looks like he is exactly what we thought he woudl be, an energy player. Guys like him usually develop a shot later, if they become more of an impact. We'll see.

I agree.
I'll never trust this' team again.
TMS
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7/16/2006  10:56 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by TMS:

whether the pick was "wasted" or not, the bottomline is whether or not this kid can come in here & improve this team defensively & make an impact worthy of having been a #20 pick... contrary to what certain experts may feel would have or would not have happened, the fact of the matter is there are no guarantees that Balkman would have still been on the boards when the Knicks turn to pick w/the #29 came up, so it's really pointless for you guys to keep harping on the fact that Isiah took him too early at #20 at this point.

Bottomline for me personally is this: IMO Marcus Williams would have had much less of an impact on this team than Balkman has the potential to have this year because he'd be playing behind both Marbury & Francis, & Isiah is trying to groom Nate into a PG as well, whereas i think Balkman will be starting games by the end of the season if he does the things on the court that Isiah, LB & some other scouts seem to believe he can do.

I don't see Balkman having an impact next year. They should think hard about utilyzing the NBDL, atleast for 20 games or so, in order for Blakman to play 40 minutes and work on his shooting. The way he scored in the SL isnt going to be there in the BIG show. Let him go establish himself playing the game and enhancing some raw skills, while working with a PT to put on 10+ PDS.

personally, from the summer league games i've seen, he seems to be more prepared to play the NBA game than Trevor Ariza was in his rookie season... Trevor made a real impact in some games that season (he regressed a bit during his 2nd season i thought)... i'm optimistic on Balkman, i think he's going to be the X-factor this team was missing ever since JYD was amnestied off the roster, only better in transition & more athletic... just my own gut feeling.

[Edited by - TMS on 07-16-2006 10:56 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
joec32033
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7/16/2006  10:59 PM
Posted by simrud:

I dunno about everybody else but why not wate alittle more before passing judgment on Balkman? I'd like to see him play at lest in preseason. So far looks like he is exactly what we thought he woudl be, an energy player. Guys like him usually develop a shot later, if they become more of an impact. We'll see.

I don't think people are passing judgement as much as seeing what he brings to the table now. This is the guy we drafted. He may spurt wings and be able to dunk from half court(exaggeration alert!), but he doesn't have them now, so he can't. He may develop a jumper and a great crossover.

I watched 3 of the games and part of the fourth. Balkman is exactly what has been advertised as you said. He has one offensive move, step, dribble once, elevate for dunk. Can he develop that? Yes. Can he develop a stop and pop jumper off that move? Sure. But the bottom line is-hypothetically-if available, I would rather draft the guy that can do it as opposed to the guy who may develop and might be able to do it.

If this is the type of player we want, trade down into the second for Tucker(he is twice the player Balkman is and is only an inch shorter) or draft Collins at 20 and PJ Tucker at 29.

[Edited by - joec32033 on 07-16-2006 11:05 PM]
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TMS
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7/16/2006  11:10 PM
Posted by joec32033:

bottom line is-hypothetically-if available, I would rather draft the guy that can do it as opposed to the guy who may develop and might be able to do it.

it all depends on what "it" is that you want that draft pick to do... is drafting another guy who can dish & swish when we already have guys on the roster filling that role going to really help this team this season? if you think they could have traded him & got back good value, then that's your prerogative, but again, it's all just hypothetical & you never know how things may have turned out... maybe you draft the guy, he gets no playing time his 1st 2 seasons because of Marbury & Francis' presence here, then ends up getting injured & by that time, most of his trade value is shot... sure, the same can happen to Balkman too... again, it's all just hypothetical... nothing is certain until you see how these guys perform on the NBA level... 1 thing you can say for sure however, is that Balkman seems to be able to do things on the court that not many other Knick players can do right now, which is to effect the game while not having the ball in his hands... players like that sometimes grow into some of the most valuable players any team can have... & if things work out for this kid, we're all gonna look back & think the #20 pick was a steal just like LB said.



[Edited by - TMS on 07-16-2006 11:10 PM]
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nixluva
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7/16/2006  11:16 PM
Balkman is a role player and really its much easier to play a guy for defensive purposes when you have enough scoring like we do. WHY wouldn't he be able to make an impact? He's just got to go out there and do what he already does. HUSTLE!!!! He plays within himself and that's a plus, cuz he won't do too many stupid things. He'll stick to what he does best and that WILL help the team.
joec32033
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7/16/2006  11:33 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by joec32033:

bottom line is-hypothetically-if available, I would rather draft the guy that can do it as opposed to the guy who may develop and might be able to do it.

it all depends on what "it" is that you want that draft pick to do... is drafting another guy who can dish & swish when we already have guys on the roster filling that role going to really help this team this season? if you think they could have traded him & got back good value, then that's your prerogative, but again, it's all just hypothetical & you never know how things may have turned out... maybe you draft the guy, he gets no playing time his 1st 2 seasons because of Marbury & Francis' presence here, then ends up getting injured & by that time, most of his trade value is shot... sure, the same can happen to Balkman too... again, it's all just hypothetical... nothing is certain until you see how these guys perform on the NBA level... 1 thing you can say for sure however, is that Balkman seems to be able to do things on the court that not many other Knick players can do right now, which is to effect the game while not having the ball in his hands... players like that sometimes grow into some of the most valuable players any team can have... & if things work out for this kid, we're all gonna look back & think the #20 pick was a steal just like LB said.



[Edited by - TMS on 07-16-2006 11:10 PM]

But once again, the whole thing is we could have drafted Tucker and said the exact same thing about him doing things noone on our roster does. Tucker is a more complete player than Balkman. He is Balkman with offense. I am using this as an example because like I said, there were more talented guys who played defense and offered more game than Balkman does. Which is why I disagree with him at 20.
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Solace
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7/17/2006  5:30 AM
Defense is one-dimensional, but even I'll say I think Balkman has more than one-dimension to his game. I don't think he'll get many minutes, but my hope is he winds up being a Shandon Anderson type player.
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Rich
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7/17/2006  7:42 AM
Posted by Solace:

Defense is one-dimensional, but even I'll say I think Balkman has more than one-dimension to his game. I don't think he'll get many minutes, but my hope is he winds up being a Shandon Anderson type player.

I think he'll be better. He will likely be a better rebounder and a better passer.

Besides, Anderson, at least when he was on the Knicks, thought he could shoot. I don't think that Balkman will ever be that stupid.
joec32033
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7/17/2006  8:04 AM
Posted by Rich:
Posted by Solace:

Defense is one-dimensional, but even I'll say I think Balkman has more than one-dimension to his game. I don't think he'll get many minutes, but my hope is he winds up being a Shandon Anderson type player.

I think he'll be better. He will likely be a better rebounder and a better passer.

Besides, Anderson, at least when he was on the Knicks, thought he could shoot. I don't think that Balkman will ever be that stupid.

ROFLMAO...Seriously, I like Balkman. Can he develop a more diverse offensive game? Absolutely. Do I think it's gonna happen? I have my doubts-Zeke already mentioned him as a defensive player and will train him as such-which means sacrificing time on the offensive side of the ball. I think he'll develop into a defensive player at 10 or 12 pts. per. I just think there were better options available to us at that position.

I also think that if Balkman was a Euro (by Euro I mean European, not white) the analysts would have liked the pick more-look at Gelabale. I think he is a very fair comparison to Balkman.

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BigC
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7/17/2006  8:35 AM
Regardless of want people say I have to wait and see Balkman during the season guard other sf's before I give him the defensive title. When he play's good defense against the Rashard Lewis's of the world or even the Richard Jefferson's of the world then I will give credit. Until then people are just repeating what the media is saying about the guy.
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joec32033
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7/17/2006  9:37 AM
Posted by BigC:

Regardless of want people say I have to wait and see Balkman during the season guard other sf's before I give him the defensive title. When he play's good defense against the Rashard Lewis's of the world or even the Richard Jefferson's of the world then I will give credit. Until then people are just repeating what the media is saying about the guy.

I agree to a point. Everyone who says guys are passing judgement need to understand that is not the case. They are evaluating him based on his college performances. He was a defensive player, offensively challenged in college.

Just as a comparison-I don't want to take this farther than just the comparison stage, it's like the whole LB argument where guys say that his history and past performances mean nothing. It does. It is an indicator of future probability of success. Same as Steph's 20 and 8. Everyone expects a certain performance from him, if he goes under that he underperforms.

Guys say Steph and Francis and Larry had a bad year last year, which is correct. But what is that based on? Past performance for all 3.

Francis averaged 14, 4 and 5 last season. That is a decent year, but it is a down year for him. Why? Because his career average (INCLUDING last year) is 19, 6 assists, 6 rebounds.http://www.nba.com/playerfile/steve_francis/

Stephon averaged 16, 3, and 6 assists. Tony parker averaged a aimiliar 18, 3 and 6. Parker had a great season, Steph underperformed. Why? Steph has career averages of 20, 3, and 8 assists, Parker doesn't.
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/stephon_marbury/index.html
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tony_parker/

LB is a great coach. He has a .558 winning percentage in the regular season while taking on teams he has to rebuild. Last season he had a crappy season because his winning percentage was .280 and it didn't look like he rebuilt anything.


Sorry for the little tangent, but everyone will judge Balkman when he gets NBA minutes under his belt. But until then, he is what he is. He was a hustle player who didn't ring up stats in the SL (there are alot of undrafted FA's who can do that). His hustle plays are a mark of the games of guys that are undrafted.

Did he do horrible? No. His speed and first step impressed me. As did his fearlessness in going to the rim(although it was the exact same move from the exact same spot on the wing everytime, I digress).

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unstopaball12
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7/17/2006  9:42 AM
i think francis will have a fantastic year because he loves this style of play remember wen he was wid the rockets he was very effective wen rudy was using the open court system!!!while wen he strrugled wid van gundy who is very similar wid brown so i hope and am looking foward to see francis stepup nxt year
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7/17/2006  9:44 AM
TMS - brevity is a blessing. You could have cut your post and presented a simple and elegant point.

Before

>>whether the pick was "wasted" or not, the bottomline is whether or not this kid can come in here & improve this team defensively & make an impact worthy of having been a #20 pick

After

Can Balkman improve this team defensively?
once a knick always a knick
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Larry Brown: Balkman A 'Potential Steal'
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