Posted by nyk4ever:

I would say ironic is the right word. Yes I preach defense but a player like Marcus Williams, I feel only comes around so often. Believe me, I'm not taking Briggs word here, I seen Williams play many times in college, been to the games, watched them on TV and I was impressed with him since day one. The guy just knows how to run a offense, he can run a halfcourt offense and a fullcourt offense. My whole problem is that the Knicks are rebuilding and NEED to be stockpiling a combination of players and a true PG is at the top of the list and I think Williams fits that perfectly.

This is why I'm holding Isiah accountable. You won't find me complaining about Balkman as a player, I like what he brings, just think it was a real stretch to draft him where he was drafted when a player of Williams caliber is on the table and Isiah doesn't want to draft just becuase he has two 30 yr old PGs on the roster already.

fair enough. unfortunately, this is what happens when a GM is given a win now edict.

Posted by BRIGGS:


If Marcdy Collins or Blakman dominated a game like that, he would be the basketball Jesus coming down to Earth --if its the player we shouldve taken--its only numbers


lets face it, we absolutely train wrecked this draft.

And if Collins or Balkman dominated a game like that you'd say it meant nothing and they are still scrubs. I think everyone here gets it. You hate the picks and wanted Williams. Fine. But if you just keep repeating it all the time you are just going to get tuned out and all of the good insight you bring is going to get lost in the process.

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by crzymdups:

Posted by nyk4ever:

I would say ironic is the right word. Yes I preach defense but a player like Marcus Williams, I feel only comes around so often. Believe me, I'm not taking Briggs word here, I seen Williams play many times in college, been to the games, watched them on TV and I was impressed with him since day one. The guy just knows how to run a offense, he can run a halfcourt offense and a fullcourt offense. My whole problem is that the Knicks are rebuilding and NEED to be stockpiling a combination of players and a true PG is at the top of the list and I think Williams fits that perfectly.

This is why I'm holding Isiah accountable. You won't find me complaining about Balkman as a player, I like what he brings, just think it was a real stretch to draft him where he was drafted when a player of Williams caliber is on the table and Isiah doesn't want to draft just becuase he has two 30 yr old PGs on the roster already.

fair enough. unfortunately, this is what happens when a GM is given a win now edict.

No, this is what happens when you've spent hundreds of millions on payroll over 2 1/2 years with nothing to show for it but the laughinstock that is the NY Knicks. But you keep pretending that Isiah is some kind of victim here if it makes you feel better.

...and you can pretend he's a scourge if it makes you feel better, I guess. and we can both post about it.

Posted by islesfan:

Pretend that he's a scourge??? Uh yeah, Isiah has done wonders for this organization since he's been here. And no, it doesn't make me feel better that the Knicks are a complete laughingstock. Glad to know that you enjoy it though.

I enjoy rooting for a talented, young team. and I'll particularly enjoy when they save Isiah's job just for you.

Posted by crzymdups:

Posted by islesfan:

Pretend that he's a scourge??? Uh yeah, Isiah has done wonders for this organization since he's been here. And no, it doesn't make me feel better that the Knicks are a complete laughingstock. Glad to know that you enjoy it though.

I enjoy rooting for a talented, young team. and I'll particularly enjoy when they save Isiah's job just for you.

Young and talented like the Devil Rays and Clippers claimed to be all those years? Eh, I'd rather be good and we know that's not happening anytime soon with Isiah here and probably for another 5 years after he's gone.

Posted by EwingsGlass:

Posted by crzymdups:

for what it's worth, Balkman dominated his game today, too. and he was playing against actual competition as opposed to the squad of nothings Orlando fielded.

Actually, I thought Artest used him pretty badly. The knicks won when Artest was off the floor. I still like what I see in his potential. But "Summer League Basketball is meaningless".

agreed. though Artest has a good 50lbs on Balkman and is a bull and one of the top 20 players in the league.

and look what Williams was playing against, not much nba level talent...
http://www.nba.com/media/magic/MagicNets71006.pdf

[Edited by - crzymdups on 11-07-2006 02:05 AM]

Woah. First of all well done Marcus Williams. Looked like he had a great game. Secondly BRIGGS, why do you have to make stuff up? We all appreciate a good performance, no need to create stats from thin air. 7 rebounds? 3 steals? Uh what? It was actually 3 rebounds and 0 steals with 5 to's. and the Nets won by 4 so he couldnt have hit the game-winning 3. At least report the truth.

He still had a good game, just not as Chris Paul like as you might have dreamed of.

[Edited by - firefly on 07-11-2006 05:21 AM]

Trade Value is what its all about and Marcus at 20 would have been perfect, because Balkman we could have traded out of the first round all together and came away with him......

Collins I don't care what anyone says the guy has no athleticism and was a waste of a pick Isiah should have just traded the two picks for something down the road because the guy he wanted would have been availble......Zeke can lie all he wants but if your not in the media guide chances are your not getting picked.........

And Nates not going to get you 12 and 7, he may get you points but he is more of what the team needs in a pg than anything we have......but in the end its summer league.....Zeke is just braindead, take the value cheap and trade it later

Posted by fishmike:

we should have taken him, no ifs ands or butts. Remember that total crap BS from Isiah about not comprimising the Knick's future in this draft? And about how we were a rebuilding team?

wouldnt a pass first PG who proved to perform at very high level in pressure situations be exactly what you want in this draft? A guy that can run a 5 man offense and deliver the ball to guys like Curry, Frye, Lee, Butler and even Nate in easy postions to score?

Instead he did exactly what he said he wouldnt... use the draft to fill a short term need.

I guess we are just resigned to 3 years of a Franbury backcourt eh?

fish, believe it or not Isiah has a slightly stronger draft history than you. name the busts he's drafted? I'll save you some time - there aren't any.

he has drafted one all-star to date (Tracy), granted frye may be one down the road, he had a couple of nice pickups but right now he drafts rotation players.....

i dont' care how strong his drafts have been hes proven to be an untrust worthly ******* with limited business sense....

1. Joe Smith Maryland Golden State
2. Antonio McDyess Alabama LA Clippers (*)
3. Jerry Stackhouse North Carolina Philadelphia
4. Rasheed Wallace North Carolina Washington
5. Kevin Garnett Faraggut HS (IL) Minnesota
6. Bryant Reeves Oklahoma State Vancouver
7. Damon Stoudamire Arizona Toronto (best left on the board he made the smart choice)
8. Shawn Respert Michigan State Portland (*)
9. Ed O'Bannon UCLA New Jersey
10. Kurt Thomas Texas Christian Miami
11. Gary Trent Ohio University Milwaukee (*)
12. Cherokee Parks Duke Dallas
13. Corliss Williamson Arkansas Sacramento
14. Eric Williams Providence Boston

1996
1. Allen Iverson Georgetown Philadelphia
2. Marcus Camby Massachusetts Toronto
3. Shareef Abdur-Rahim California Vancouver
4. Stephon Marbury Georgia Tech Milwaukee (*)allstar
5. Ray Allen Connecticut Minnesota (*)allstar
6. Antoine Walker Kentucky Boston allstar
7. Lorenzen Wright Memphis LA Clippers
8. Kerry Kittles Villanova New Jersey
9. Samaki Walker Louisville Dallas
10. Erick Dampier Mississippi State Indiana
11. Todd Fuller North Carolina State Golden State
12. Vitaly Potapenko Wright State Cleveland
13. Kobe Bryant Lower Merion (PA) HS Charlotte allstar-allnba
14. Predrag Stojakovic PAOK Greece Sacramento allstar
15. Steve Nash Santa Clara Phoenix allstar
16. Tony Delk Kentucky Charlotte
17. Jermaine O'Neal Eau Claire (SC) HS Portland allstar
18. John Wallace Syracuse New York
19. Walter McCarty Kentucky New York
20. Zydrunas Ilgauskas Lithuania Cleveland allstar (terrible though)

1997
1. Tim Duncan Wake Forest San Antonio
2. Keith Van Horn Utah Philadelphia
3. Chauncey Billups Colorado Boston
4. Antonio Daniels Bowling Green Vancouver
5. Tony Battie Texas Tech Denver
6. Ron Mercer Kentucky Boston
7. Tim Thomas Villanova New Jersey
8. Adonal Foyle Colgate Golden State
9. Tracy McGrady Mt Zion (NC) Academy Toronto (took a chance why not, great pick)
10. Danny Fortson Cincinnati Milwaukee
11. Olivier Saint-Jean San Jose State Sacramento
12. Austin Croshere Providence Indiana
13. Derek Anderson Kentucky Cleveland
14. Maurice Taylor Michigan LA Clippers
15. Kelvin Cato Iowa State Dallas
16. Brevin Knight Stanford Cleveland
17. Johnny Taylor Tennessee-Chattanooga Orlando
18. Chris Anstey Australia Portland
19. Scot Pollard Kansas Detroit

Then:
Fred Jones (hes alright)
Trevor Ariza (fringe rotation player at best but nice find in the second round)

Nate (?remains to be seen very false sense of winning)
Lee (great pick, nice rotation guy)

Now
Balkman (terrible choice don't care how he turns out could have been had in the second round) Notables passed on Marcus Williams, Lowry would have been great as a floor general and someone that plays great defense

Collins (not really needed, if you wanted balkman you take him there)


This is what saves isiah, he makes some good picks, but nothing that has ever turned a team into a winner

Posted by crzymdups:

Posted by fishmike:

we should have taken him, no ifs ands or butts. Remember that total crap BS from Isiah about not comprimising the Knick's future in this draft? And about how we were a rebuilding team?

wouldnt a pass first PG who proved to perform at very high level in pressure situations be exactly what you want in this draft? A guy that can run a 5 man offense and deliver the ball to guys like Curry, Frye, Lee, Butler and even Nate in easy postions to score?

Instead he did exactly what he said he wouldnt... use the draft to fill a short term need.

I guess we are just resigned to 3 years of a Franbury backcourt eh?

fish, believe it or not Isiah has a slightly stronger draft history than you. name the busts he's drafted? I'll save you some time - there aren't any.

he draftted TMac. That was his one great pick. Camby was the best player in CBB and red hot after UMass's NCAA run. Damon Stoudemire was OK. For god sakes Scott Layden had a great draft record also. Do we miss him?

But he's said Balkman is a Rodman/Artest clone so it must be true.

Let me ask you a question. Do *YOU* think he took the best player available?