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the Renaldo Balkman appreciation thread!
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nyk4ever
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6/28/2006  11:55 PM
I'll repeat it just so everyone knows. I like the idea of getting Balkman, all I asked for was for Isiah to draft a defensive minded player and it really sounds like he's done that. I watch alot of college basketball and I've heard the guys name before but I don't know much about him so that worries me. I just don't think it was smart for Isiah to pass up on a guy like Marcus Williams who can be traded with one of our horrible contracts to be packaged so we can get rid of some of these contracts. Hell you can even keep Williams, I watched him enough to know he's going to be a very good NBA pg and the Knicks need a PG. I like Balkman, just not at 20. Draft Williams at 20 and if someone else is hot for Balkman use the 29 pick to trade up.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 06-28-2006 11:56 PM]
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joec32033
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6/28/2006  11:57 PM
I haven't seen Marcus play but he was by far the top rated PG in the draft. Other than the part about seeing Marcus play, I agree with this 100%.
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gunsnewing
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6/29/2006  12:02 AM
just to keep this in perspective don't forget Balkman cost us $30mm. Marcus has a much great chance of being worth that kind of money. I mean we didn't take on Malik Rose so that we could draft a role player right?

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 06-29-2006 12:07 AM]
tomverve
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6/29/2006  12:06 AM
I know, I can't believe I paid $1mill out of my own pocket just so we could draft Balkman.
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EwingsGlass
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6/29/2006  12:13 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:

just to keep this in perspective don't forget Balkman costed us $30mm. Marcus has a much great chance of being worth that kind of money. I mean we didn't take on Malik Rose so that we could draft a role player right?

Maybe I am missing something. Malik Rose came from San Antonio with their 2 1st round picks, now known as David Lee and Mardy Collins, for Nazr Mohammed.

We gave up Antonio Davis for Jalen Rose and Denver's pick. Antonio Davis being a salary consideration to balance Chicago's assumption of Tim Thomas' contract in the Eddy Curry Deal.

So, doing the math

Tim Thomas + Michael Sweetney + [Ty Thomas & Victor Khyrapa] + 2007 1st rounder swap option =
Eddy Curry + [Jalen Rose + Renaldo Balkman]

I am not sure this looks much better, but IT currently has a trading chip in Jalen Rose. So, the final equation is not complete...we'll see how it turns out. At least Howard Eisley isn't starting.
You know I gonna spin wit it
gunsnewing
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6/29/2006  12:16 AM
Posted by EwingsGlass:
Posted by gunsnewing:

just to keep this in perspective don't forget Balkman costed us $30mm. Marcus has a much great chance of being worth that kind of money. I mean we didn't take on Malik Rose so that we could draft a role player right?

Maybe I am missing something. Malik Rose came from San Antonio with their 2 1st round picks, now known as David Lee and Mardy Collins, for Nazr Mohammed.

We gave up Antonio Davis for Jalen Rose and Denver's pick. Antonio Davis being a salary consideration to balance Chicago's assumption of Tim Thomas' contract in the Eddy Curry Deal.

So, doing the math

Tim Thomas + Michael Sweetney + [Ty Thomas & Victor Khyrapa] + 2007 1st rounder swap option =
Eddy Curry + [Jalen Rose + Renaldo Balkman]

I am not sure this looks much better, but IT currently has a trading chip in Jalen Rose. So, the final equation is not complete...we'll see how it turns out. At least Howard Eisley isn't starting.


you're right sorry about that. Still when we traded Nazr in order to get the 29th & have to put up with Malik taking Lee's minutes for 3yra inorder to draft Mardy Collins?
crzymdups
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6/29/2006  12:17 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:

just to keep this in perspective don't forget Balkman cost us $30mm. Marcus has a much great chance of being worth that kind of money. I mean we didn't take on Malik Rose so that we could draft a role player right?

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 06-29-2006 12:07 AM]

that's some pretty fuzzy math. I mean, I don't like the pick, but really what cost the Knicks $30 million was Larry Brown begging for Jalen Rose.
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efw
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6/29/2006  12:18 AM
Exhibit A


Isiah Fills Knicks' Biggest Need

GM and coach Thomas goes for defense and picks 6-8 Balkman, 6-6 point guard Collins

BY GREG LOGAN
Newsday Staff Correspondent

June 29, 2006

GREENBURGH, N.Y. -- Coming on the heels of the Larry Brown fiasco in which Knicks owner James Dolan replaced the Hall of Fame coach with team president Isiah Thomas, the Knicks knew they would take some flak from the crowd attending NBA draft festivities last night at the Theatre at Madison Square Garden.

But when Thomas passed over Connecticut point guard Marcus Williams with the 20th pick to select a sleeper in 6-8 South Carolina small forward Renaldo Balkman, the negative reaction was instantaneous and overwhelming. Boos rained down with such force that Thomas, who was ensconced at the Knicks' Westchester County training facility, must have heard it along with the bashing he took from ESPN's crew of television commentators.

The Knicks had their choice of every point guard except for Villanova's Randy Foye, who was chosen seventh by Boston and eventually dealt to Minnesota. The method to Thomas' madness became a bit more clear when he used their second first-round pick in the 29th spot for 6-6 Temple point guard Mardy Collins, who met with a mixed reaction from the crowd.

Still, the choice of an unknown like Balkman was a head-scratcher. There was some thought the Knicks might go for 6-10 UConn power forward Josh Boone at No. 20, which also would have been a popular pick.

But the winner of the popularity contest last night was Nets president Rod Thorn, who selected both UConn stars, Williams and Boone, with the 22nd and 23rd picks. The Atlantic Division champions filled their two primary needs, a pass-first point guard to back up Jason Kidd and a rebounder and shot-blocker.

At first, it seemed Thomas might have been aced out for the player he really wanted by Indiana president Larry Bird, who fired Thomas as Pacers coach in 2003. The Pacers chose Memphis small forward Shawne .Williams, the athletic wing man most assumed Thomas wanted, with the 17th pick.

But Thomas said Balkman was the guy he wanted all along, and although most thought he would have been available with the 29th pick, Thomas knew Phoenix was set to take Balkman at No. 27. Sure enough, Phoenix traded out of the draft once Balkman was off the board.

"I thought, 'If we take Balkman at No. 20, somebody will drop to us [at No. 29],' " Thomas said last night. "If we didn't get Collins, we had a backup. But Balkman wouldn't have been there at No. 29."

So what was the attraction of a player who received little pre-draft fanfare? "We wanted to get defenders," Thomas said. "We have enough offensive players. We need guys who defend."

If Thomas learned nothing else from Brown in their year together, that one lesson might be worth the $40 million the Knicks owe their former coach. Without a doubt, the Knicks went for what they identified as their greatest need, players capable of defending the top perimeter shooters.

"Balkman is a unique player," Thomas said. "He reminds me of Dennis Rodman and Ron Artest. Mardy Collins is a big guard who can defend. Defensively, we feel you can put those two guys on the floor at and cover [small forward and shooting guard]."

Collins also will present matchup problems for smaller point guards. Although Balkman averaged only 9.6 points as a senior, he averaged 6.3 rebounds and was a selfless performer who was named MVP of South Carolina's NIT victory at the Garden last spring. He also was viewed by many as the MVP of the recent pre-draft camp in Orlando.

Thomas said both are experienced enough to step in right away and contribute just because of their defensive prowess. If that's true, it's something for Knicks fans to cheer.
Rich
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6/29/2006  12:20 AM
Isiah said Phoenix would have taken him at 21. He wanted defensive players. Marcus Williams would have replicated what Marbury, Craw, and Francis do. He likes Curry over Tyrus Thomas. He has to bring out Curry's talent. He did it with O'Neal and Miller, and he is confident tha he can do it with Curry. He wants to re-estblish confidence and pride.

audio at:

http://www.msgnetwork.com/index.jsp

[Edited by - Rich on 06-29-2006 12:21 AM]
gunsnewing
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6/29/2006  12:22 AM
Marcus can set up plays & would've been perfect for Curry/Frye. Marbury, Francis, Crawford have no idea what a good pass is

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 06-29-2006 12:24 AM]
Anji
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6/29/2006  12:23 AM
He looks like a cross between SAR of the kings and Brian Grant...




[Edited by - anji on 06-29-2006 12:23 AM]

[Edited by - anji on 06-29-2006 12:44 AM]
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gunsnewing
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6/29/2006  12:28 AM
Posted by Rich:

Isiah said Phoenix would have taken him at 21. He wanted defensive players. Marcus Williams would have replicated what Marbury, Craw, and Francis do. He likes Curry over Tyrus Thomas. He has to bring out Curry's talent. He did it with O'Neal and Miller, and he is confident tha he can do it with Curry. He wants to re-estblish confidence and pride.

audio at:

http://www.msgnetwork.com/index.jsp

[Edited by - Rich on 06-29-2006 12:21 AM]


you can tell Isiah was influenced by LArry Brown when he said Collins is a ball mover.
BRIGGS
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6/29/2006  12:29 AM
Posted by efw:

Exhibit A


Isiah Fills Knicks' Biggest Need

GM and coach Thomas goes for defense and picks 6-8 Balkman, 6-6 point guard Collins

BY GREG LOGAN
Newsday Staff Correspondent

June 29, 2006

GREENBURGH, N.Y. -- Coming on the heels of the Larry Brown fiasco in which Knicks owner James Dolan replaced the Hall of Fame coach with team president Isiah Thomas, the Knicks knew they would take some flak from the crowd attending NBA draft festivities last night at the Theatre at Madison Square Garden.

But when Thomas passed over Connecticut point guard Marcus Williams with the 20th pick to select a sleeper in 6-8 South Carolina small forward Renaldo Balkman, the negative reaction was instantaneous and overwhelming. Boos rained down with such force that Thomas, who was ensconced at the Knicks' Westchester County training facility, must have heard it along with the bashing he took from ESPN's crew of television commentators.

The Knicks had their choice of every point guard except for Villanova's Randy Foye, who was chosen seventh by Boston and eventually dealt to Minnesota. The method to Thomas' madness became a bit more clear when he used their second first-round pick in the 29th spot for 6-6 Temple point guard Mardy Collins, who met with a mixed reaction from the crowd.

Still, the choice of an unknown like Balkman was a head-scratcher. There was some thought the Knicks might go for 6-10 UConn power forward Josh Boone at No. 20, which also would have been a popular pick.

But the winner of the popularity contest last night was Nets president Rod Thorn, who selected both UConn stars, Williams and Boone, with the 22nd and 23rd picks. The Atlantic Division champions filled their two primary needs, a pass-first point guard to back up Jason Kidd and a rebounder and shot-blocker.

At first, it seemed Thomas might have been aced out for the player he really wanted by Indiana president Larry Bird, who fired Thomas as Pacers coach in 2003. The Pacers chose Memphis small forward Shawne .Williams, the athletic wing man most assumed Thomas wanted, with the 17th pick.

But Thomas said Balkman was the guy he wanted all along, and although most thought he would have been available with the 29th pick, Thomas knew Phoenix was set to take Balkman at No. 27. Sure enough, Phoenix traded out of the draft once Balkman was off the board.

"I thought, 'If we take Balkman at No. 20, somebody will drop to us [at No. 29],' " Thomas said last night. "If we didn't get Collins, we had a backup. But Balkman wouldn't have been there at No. 29."

So what was the attraction of a player who received little pre-draft fanfare? "We wanted to get defenders," Thomas said. "We have enough offensive players. We need guys who defend."

If Thomas learned nothing else from Brown in their year together, that one lesson might be worth the $40 million the Knicks owe their former coach. Without a doubt, the Knicks went for what they identified as their greatest need, players capable of defending the top perimeter shooters.

"Balkman is a unique player," Thomas said. "He reminds me of Dennis Rodman and Ron Artest. Mardy Collins is a big guard who can defend. Defensively, we feel you can put those two guys on the floor at and cover [small forward and shooting guard]."

Collins also will present matchup problems for smaller point guards. Although Balkman averaged only 9.6 points as a senior, he averaged 6.3 rebounds and was a selfless performer who was named MVP of South Carolina's NIT victory at the Garden last spring. He also was viewed by many as the MVP of the recent pre-draft camp in Orlando.

Thomas said both are experienced enough to step in right away and contribute just because of their defensive prowess. If that's true, it's something for Knicks fans to cheer.



yeah balkman sound slike a pheonix player cant shoot cant dribble sounds like the kind of player they use in a high scoring offense. Im sure Pheonix told the knicks that Balkman was there pick--hey actually they mightve! its just a horrible pick and he compounds it with his pathological lying phoenix looks for the EXACT opposite type player
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efw
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6/29/2006  12:33 AM
you're right! Phoenix drafted the complete opposite of him - no one!
BasketballJones
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6/29/2006  12:43 AM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by BasketballJones:


Isiah drafted Larry Brown's Picks How ironic is that?

Jones, you think that these two guys are really Isiah player? Collins is a 3 position tweener and is not a runner who seems to thrive in a half court offense (most temple players do). Balkman is a defensive specialist. I LOVE the Collins pick. I would have loved picking Balman too, even eaching for him, at 35-40.

I don't know. It kind of makes sense because Larry was running the workouts, and the Knicks got his notes. It just struck me as ironic given what has happened. It seemed like Williams was the BPA at 20, and there was a real sense of excitement and anticipation that he had fallen to 20 and the Knicks could get him... Maybe these picks are "Larry's Revenge".

But I'll stay out of any arguments about what Isiah should have done. I almost don't care. I think I need a break from thinking about the Knicks until the summer league starts, unless there's some kind of major trade between now and then.
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joec32033
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6/29/2006  12:53 AM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by BasketballJones:


Isiah drafted Larry Brown's Picks How ironic is that?

Jones, you think that these two guys are really Isiah player? Collins is a 3 position tweener and is not a runner who seems to thrive in a half court offense (most temple players do). Balkman is a defensive specialist. I LOVE the Collins pick. I would have loved picking Balman too, even eaching for him, at 35-40.

I don't know. It kind of makes sense because Larry was running the workouts, and the Knicks got his notes. It just struck me as ironic given what has happened. It seemed like Williams was the BPA at 20, and there was a real sense of excitement and anticipation that he had fallen to 20 and the Knicks could get him... Maybe these picks are "Larry's Revenge".

But I'll stay out of any arguments about what Isiah should have done. I almost don't care. I think I need a break from thinking about the Knicks until the summer league starts, unless there's some kind of major trade between now and then.


Zeke said that this is going to be a running team, we have no real PG and like 5 or 6 SG's(or 5 or 6 PG's and no SG's, whichever you prefer) and he drafts one guy who is a defender and another who is a big PG/SG who is probably better at a half court game because he is not uber athletic or fast.
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gunsnewing
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6/29/2006  12:56 AM
Eddy Curry/Channing Frye/Marbury is not a running team so I don't know where this idea that we're replicating Phoenix is coming from. running 2nd unit maybe
crzymdups
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6/29/2006  12:58 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:

Eddy Curry/Channing Frye/Marbury is not a running team so I don't know where this idea that we're replicating Phoenix is coming from. running 2nd unit maybe

that's a good point - Marbury and Curry are built for a half court game. The offense needs to be opened up within the half court game though - meaning three pt shots allowed and plenty of screen and rolls with Marbury/Craw/Nate and Lee/Frye/Curry.
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PhilinLA
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6/29/2006  12:58 AM
His highlights were pretty impressive on MSG. Much more so than Collins (who looked like Collins-nice smart player) or any of the Nets picks.
http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
gunsnewing
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6/29/2006  1:01 AM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by gunsnewing:

Eddy Curry/Channing Frye/Marbury is not a running team so I don't know where this idea that we're replicating Phoenix is coming from. running 2nd unit maybe

that's a good point - Marbury and Curry are built for a half court game. The offense needs to be opened up within the half court game though - meaning three pt shots allowed and plenty of screen and rolls with Marbury/Craw/Nate and Lee/Frye/Curry.

exactly we sill haven't added a player who can shoot the ball in the halfcourt which is the only was Marbury can succeed. We saw it with Van Horn & Houston. Knowing Isiah's track record we will never have that shooter since all he ever looks for is yound & athletic.
the Renaldo Balkman appreciation thread!

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