Originally posted by misterearl:

Solace - being a fan of a franchise and having sophisticated political views are NOT intertwined.

Posted by Solace:

Originally posted by Bonn1997:

SOLACE: Furthermore, when Steve Nash wins it, why do you have to make a post about him winning because of his skin color?

He made an extreme effort to make it clear this was NOT what he was saying.

If that's the case, then maybe I misunderstood what he said. I thought that was the point he was making. My apologies, then.

Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by Solace:

Originally posted by misterearl:

Solace - being a fan of a franchise and having sophisticated political views are NOT intertwined.

I guess my feeling is they have to have some relation, maybe not as strong a relation as I was suggesting, however. I guess maybe the issue being discussed is more if the voters have a "preference" (sugarcoated word) towards a particular race?
Turning the corner a bit, if Isiah coaches the Knicks as well as guys as rvhoss say he will and the Knicks win a championship in two years, I'll be at the front of the line for Isiah as coach of the year and give him all the credit in the world. However, from my point of view, Isiah took over the Knicks in the hole, then instead of climbing out, he dug the hole deeper and wider. That's really what I think most people care about; not about his race.

[Edited by - Solace on 06-26-2006 09:28 AM]

Rent the movie "do the right thing." Spike Lee powerfully showed how some racist white people, were able to still have all Black entertainers as their favorites. One character was blatantly racist, and Michael Jackson was his favorite singer, etc. It was and still is a very easy thing to understand. Just because you like how Jamal Crawford plays basketball doesn't mean you'd be open to marrying or allowing your daughter to marry someone black. Allowing someone to entertain you doesn't mean you aren't prejudiced against them. The fact that I watch women's tennis doesn't mean I'm not a sexist.

All of the "playing the race card" crew and some others have totally missed the point. First, the article wasn't about your personal feelings about Isiah, but the general media onslaught that comes at him that doesn't come at other inept GM's like say Kevin McHale or KiKi Vandehwe or even Scott Layden. The post theorized about the possibility that the bird incident may have turned people against him forever. I think that even when you account for this being NY where everything was blown out of control, he gets an unfair rap imo, and this was a scenario I thought worth discussing. Especially since the original poster supported his positions with counter explanations. This wasn't about disliking him because he's black. What the hell is wrong with you guys? Jesus Christ man.

Race is a major factor of life in the U.S. and to pretend that you don't notice someones skin color is a lie. To say you dont consciously consider it when making judgements is reasonable, but to act like no one does it or it doesn't happen regularly as naive at best, willfully ignorant at worst.

OH and about the white America thing, I didn't say it but I would have. Lets be real here. In the NBA hall of fame, there is a life size cut out of Larry Bird there. The only other player that got something of that magnitude (or greater) was Michael Jordan, who happens to be the best player to ever play the game. Do you think something else is at play there, or am I just playing the race card? It about marketing, and your audience (at the time) was predominantly white so you want to market white players a little more than others. And this white audience is often referred to as white America. Its really very simple.

Fair post and I understand your viewpoint a little better. My apologies if my first post may have been a little out of line. Hope we're cool.

Posted by simrud:

Oh my goodness, I think I’ve had this discussion with Hardkore before, but Killa do you really think that American blacks are the only ethnic group prosecuted for centuries in the world?

Yes, we have discussed this before and I will repeat now what I said then- NO GROUP has gone though more suffering at the hands of others than Those of African desecent. Between the Arab and European slave trades alone, feel free to tell us who has lost more in sheer numbers.

Does it ever occur to you that there are many people in America who come from backgrounds with as much injustice and suffering as you do and actually DO understand where you are coming from?

NO. You have not gone though MY experience, so you caqn't campare yours to it when you have no idea about what my experience IS. Killa already tried to paint that picture for you.

Ask any gypsies, Jew, etc. how they feel about racism and you will be looking in the mirror.

Dooesn't compare when you're talking about discrimination of a specific people at the magnitude it has been wraught on Black people.

This attitude that no white person can understand what racism is and how it feels to be prosecuted is ignorant to the bone.

It's even more ignorant to assume you know someone else's culture better than those those have lived that culture for generations. Whether or not you think you know what racism in america "feels like" is irrelevant.

I was refugee from the country me and both my parents were bourn because of my heritage, and you are going to act like I can't possibly understand what it means to be black in America?

Last time I looked, being a white immigrant was ALOT different than a Black american, historically. You're coming off really crass right now... So NO, you never could. Stop thinking you have it so figured out.

Try being a Jew in Europe, and then do it for a good 3000 years.

Jews aren't a race. We covered this before, Simrud. Feel free to take it there again?

Why do you think blacks and Jews went along together during the 60's? Then the white protestant majority put a lot of effort into polarizing the various minorities, mainly Jews and blacks, along with everybody else like Hispanics and Asians, and viola, the civil rights movement grinds to a halt.

Check your references, fella. COINTELPRO had a whole lot more to do with the civil rights movement halting than amy point you mention there.

And Earl if you really want to have a discussion then please read my entire post and not just pick our some one line out of that matters the least. To answer you however, I WOULD tolerate IT despite him being a snake. You know why? Because its just a game, and he is not the president of the country. He is just making trades, so if he is an jerk, he is exactly making life and death decision you know.

PS. PLEASE READ MY ENTIRE POST BEFORE RESPONDING!