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Knicks Fire Brown
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codeunknown
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6/22/2006  10:56 AM
Posted by Anji:

Man I feel like it's chirstmas morning waking up and finding this out...

Yeah but why do we as fans get coal every year?

Isiah and Dolan should be shot. Regardless of LB's performance last year, his track record is overwhelmingly positive and as an investor of any kind you always consider the long-term. Regardless of whether you like Larry, LB is a better coach than Isiah for this team and I think 1 year is insufficient to evaluate the effectiveness of Brown's methods. That said, this move is pretty bad. Still, its not disasterous because we have enough young potential on this team that it would be hard not to get better.

Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
AUTOADVERT
Rich
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6/22/2006  10:57 AM
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/428854p-361625c.html

According to sources, the Knicks have told Brown they are not going to pay him the full $40 million he is owed over the last four years of his deal. Sources indicate that the Knicks are going to allow NBA commissioner David Stern to arbitrate what compensation is owed to the Hall of Fame coach.
JesseDark
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6/22/2006  10:57 AM
if he is fired that means Brown can coach.
Berman speculating MJ will give him a call

I can see that happenning too, but can't see Brown being a good match with the roster in Charlotte either. In Berman's phone interview on ESPN he alluded to Brown overreaching his coaching responsibilities and doing GM stuff. This kind of got him and Isiah at odds. If Jordan just got the title in Charlotte why would he want to give the responsibility over to Brown.
Bring back dee-fense
realhiphop
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6/22/2006  10:58 AM
Well put. I also looked at this from a rational standpoint. I look at track records and past success to predict future success. Larry had that, Isiah is a management failure. How does Dolan run Cablevision with that brain?
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by Anji:

Man I feel like it's chirstmas morning waking up and finding this out...

Yeah but why do we as fans get coal every year?

Isiah and Dolan should be shot. Regardless of LB's performance last year, his track record is overwhelmingly positive and as an investor of any kind you always consider the long-term. Regardless of whether you like Larry, LB is a better coach than Isiah for this team and I think 1 year is insufficient to evaluate the effectiveness of Brown's methods. That said, this move is pretty bad. Still, its not disasterous because we have enough young potential on this team that it would be hard not to get better.
rvhoss
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6/22/2006  10:58 AM
Next season's starting lineup:
Crawford
Marbury
QRich
Frye
Curry

Bench: Nate, Lee, JackieB

Gone: Franchise, MoT
On the Bubble: QWoods, JRose

Zeke's plan was to bring Crawford along slowly (look at his salary coming into this year) and groom him as the heir appearant to Marbury at the point, bringing in QRich made Tiny Tim expendable.

QWoods was a LB pick, but the kid has hops. I believe Franchise and Jrose were to placate LB, so they could be gone soon, but Jrose is an expiring deal so who cares...what he does with Franchise should be interesting, but all signs point to him heading to Denver.

Thoughts?
Posted by mrbean259:

The only positive I can see out of this would be if IT just goes for a full blow youth movement...which would be ideal since his strengths seem to be drafting good players. We'd just need to dump about half of the team to do that though and I don't know how that would be possible. Pending any trades for a PF though I can't see IT not starting Frye this season, and getting minutes for Lee and Nate.

all kool aid all the time.
djsunyc
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6/22/2006  10:59 AM
imho, it looks like isiah is on very shaky ground since dolan is making him coach. if isiah was safe, and this decision to fire lb was all dolan's, then he would let isiah hire another coach. but he's not.

so lb is fired...but what's even sadder? isiah is put in a position to fail. a lame duck gm/coach that's has his back up against the wall is not condusive to a winning environment and no sign of committment. the end result may be what many want (isiah getting fired) but the philosphy behind this move gives us absolutely zero hope that we will ever win ANYTHING as a franchise.
Rich
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6/22/2006  11:00 AM
How ironic would it be if Isiah now trades Marbury?
nyk4ever
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6/22/2006  11:00 AM
Posted by realhiphop:

Well put. I also looked at this from a rational standpoint. I look at track records and past success to predict future success. Larry had that, Isiah is a management failure. How does Dolan run Cablevision with that brain?
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by Anji:

Man I feel like it's chirstmas morning waking up and finding this out...

Yeah but why do we as fans get coal every year?

Isiah and Dolan should be shot. Regardless of LB's performance last year, his track record is overwhelmingly positive and as an investor of any kind you always consider the long-term. Regardless of whether you like Larry, LB is a better coach than Isiah for this team and I think 1 year is insufficient to evaluate the effectiveness of Brown's methods. That said, this move is pretty bad. Still, its not disasterous because we have enough young potential on this team that it would be hard not to get better.

Lets not forget Dolan ran millions of cablevision subscribers out with the Yankees/YES debacle. The man is dumb as nails. I forget who said it, but all Dolan has done is be lucky he's the son of a success family.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
rvhoss
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6/22/2006  11:01 AM
How did that work for you last year?

Zeke has a good coaching track record IMHO. Especially with youth...the pacers were successful with the team Zeke groomed.
Posted by realhiphop:

Well put. I also looked at this from a rational standpoint. I look at track records and past success to predict future success. Larry had that, Isiah is a management failure. How does Dolan run Cablevision with that brain?
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by Anji:

Man I feel like it's chirstmas morning waking up and finding this out...

Yeah but why do we as fans get coal every year?

Isiah and Dolan should be shot. Regardless of LB's performance last year, his track record is overwhelmingly positive and as an investor of any kind you always consider the long-term. Regardless of whether you like Larry, LB is a better coach than Isiah for this team and I think 1 year is insufficient to evaluate the effectiveness of Brown's methods. That said, this move is pretty bad. Still, its not disasterous because we have enough young potential on this team that it would be hard not to get better.

all kool aid all the time.
OngBok
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6/22/2006  11:03 AM

OngBok
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06-22-2006 11:00 AM
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Berman states they met at 8:00 am this morning and that he was released. He then goes on to state that although he was fired, the knicks will not pay him all his money. Berman also states that LB wanted to be coach and GM and tried to knock him out !!

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Thai boxing is the best !!
OngBok
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06-22-2006 11:00 AM
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espn news

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Thai boxing is the best !!
OngBok
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06-22-2006 11:00 AM
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He continues that IT will come in with a better attitude and the players will respond

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Thai boxing is the best !!
OngBok
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06-22-2006 11:01 AM
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Berman states that it is put up or shut up for IT !!

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Thai boxing is the best !!
Isiah Thomas will lead us back to the playoffs in 2006 !!!
nyk4ever
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6/22/2006  11:04 AM
The Knicks would be in a much better position if Larry Brown was both coach and gm.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
realhiphop
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6/22/2006  11:04 AM
What do you mean how does that work for me? Isiah made a bad hire. Do you expect a star performer or CEO to take over a struggling company and turn it around with no changes made to the personnel?
Rich
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6/22/2006  11:05 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:

The Knicks would be in a much better position if Larry Brown was both coach and gm.

If they were starting from scratch, maybe, but not with this roster.
OngBok
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6/22/2006  11:06 AM
LETS GO KNICKS LETS GO KNICKS LETS GO KNICKS !!!!!!!!!!
Isiah Thomas will lead us back to the playoffs in 2006 !!!
rvhoss
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6/22/2006  11:07 AM
I may be in the minority, but I think Zeke is goingt o succeed mightily this next year...if he makes the knicks a .500 team (which is no great achievement btw) he will have improved the team by 20 wins.

We ALL know that the knicks can win 40 games. If you don't believe that then you really have no faith an ANY of our players.

At that point he will most likely win Coach of the year and new york will love our knicks again.

LB/Zeke...LB has a track record, but I think Zeke is the better coach to get results from the current roster NOW.

He's not going to mortgage our future, our future is curry, frye, qrich, crawford, david lee, nate robinson, jackieB and Qwoods.

As long as none of them get's traded, there will be no mortgaging of our future...i mean, how many under 24 kids do you want on the team?

Jesus...you guys need to quit your bitching, this is actually a great move for the knicks in terms of next year, we have a young exciting core and now we have a coach that brought all these players in and the players respect them.

if it doesn't work, then you are all correct that this is a bunch of losers, however, we know these are not losers just because their record last year indicated...the same as you guys saying LB is not a loser because of one year, I say...
curry, frye, qrich, crawford, david lee, nate robinson, jackieB and Qwoods
Are not losers and adding 2 of the following players makes them a .500 team (19 more wins next year)

marbury, franchise, jrose

That's just MHFO!

Posted by djsunyc:

imho, it looks like isiah is on very shaky ground since dolan is making him coach. if isiah was safe, and this decision to fire lb was all dolan's, then he would let isiah hire another coach. but he's not.

all kool aid all the time.
Allanfan20
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6/22/2006  11:08 AM
Finally this is over with. I hate this decision beyond belief and I agree with DJ. IT is just in a position to fail now. He was never a good GM, just an OK coach and now he's asking to be both. Damn, what the hell goes through Dolan's head?
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
NYK3
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6/22/2006  11:10 AM
rvhoss im with you man....Isiah actually isnt in that bad of a position, if the Knicks can somehow manage 35-40 wins thats a HUGE improvement from last year. IMO we can only go up from the disgrace that was last season
I wasn't born with enough middle fingers!!!
OngBok
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6/22/2006  11:10 AM
Isiah Thomas, the team's president and general manager, was immediately named as Brown's replacement. James L. Dolan, the chairman of Madison Square Garden, made the decision just before 10 a.m., after a one-hour meeting with Brown, Thomas and Steve Mills, the Garden president.
The decision ends a strange and protracted drama that began in mid-April, when the Knicks concluded their first season under Brown with a 23-59 record, their worst in two decades. It ranked among the worst seasons in Brown's Hall-of-Fame career.

Yet Dolan's disenchantment went far beyond the poor results on the court, and he ultimately fired Brown for a number of other transgressions. The Knicks, contending that Brown violated several provisions of his contract, fired him "for cause," and thus do not intend to pay him the balance of his contract, in excess of $40 million.

Under terms of Brown's contract, a five-year deal, he can appeal the team's decision to withhold his pay. Commissioner David Stern will ultimately decide the issue.

The Knicks hired Brown, with considerable fanfare and optimism, last July. Although they kept expectations modest, team officials figured that Brown, who has won both an N.C.A.A. and N.B.A. championship, would reverse a half decade of failure. Instead, Brown exacerbated the franchise's misery, losing games by the dozen, alienating his players and engaging in a public war of words with Stephon Marbury, the team's star point guard.

Dolan wanted specific assurances from Brown that he would change his behavior, both publicly and privately. When Brown wavered, Dolan decided to fire him.

Neither Brown nor any team officials were available for comment. Dolan and Thomas issued a statement expressing their frustration.

"Larry has had a long and storied career," Dolan said in the statement. "We hired him last summer with the expectation that he would be with the Knicks for a long time. Sometimes, decisions work and sometimes they don't. After careful consideration, despite the best intentions from everyone involved, this current structure did not work for us last season and I did not think it was going to improve next season. I have great personal admiration for Larry, but have concluded that it is best for our franchise if we make this change."

Thomas, who assembled the Knicks' unwieldy roster over the last two and a half years, becomes the Knicks' fifth coach since January 2004. He previously coached the Indiana Pacers from 2000-03, compiling a 131-115 record.
Isiah Thomas will lead us back to the playoffs in 2006 !!!
OngBok
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6/22/2006  11:11 AM
RVHOSS i'm with ya bro !!
Isiah Thomas will lead us back to the playoffs in 2006 !!!
codeunknown
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6/22/2006  11:12 AM
Posted by rvhoss:

How did that work for you last year?

Zeke has a good coaching track record IMHO. Especially with youth...the pacers were successful with the team Zeke groomed.
Posted by realhiphop:

Well put. I also looked at this from a rational standpoint. I look at track records and past success to predict future success. Larry had that, Isiah is a management failure. How does Dolan run Cablevision with that brain?
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by Anji:

Man I feel like it's chirstmas morning waking up and finding this out...

Yeah but why do we as fans get coal every year?

Isiah and Dolan should be shot. Regardless of LB's performance last year, his track record is overwhelmingly positive and as an investor of any kind you always consider the long-term. Regardless of whether you like Larry, LB is a better coach than Isiah for this team and I think 1 year is insufficient to evaluate the effectiveness of Brown's methods. That said, this move is pretty bad. Still, its not disasterous because we have enough young potential on this team that it would be hard not to get better.

RV - the bottom line is its irresponsible to get rid of an asset who has that kind of a track record. Everyone has bad years. Isiah's had quite a few here as a GM - why don't we fire him. If we're talking about poor performance - that Curry deal is as bad as it gets. To me, performance was a small part in this - I think it got personal with Larry - and whenever it goes there you can expect poor decisions.

Brown was a little uncomfortable with the NY situation and the toddler team that he agreed to coach. I'm not sure he was out to sabotage the team as much as he was simply a little unprepared. But, unlike many coaches, he brings with him a unique set of basketball values, 1)which have been shown to work elsewehere and 2) which he has shown he can succesfully implement. Obviously last year was disappointing, but what a piori model are you suggesting that trumps 30 years of basketball coaching excellence?
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
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