[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Islesfan, Fish....for the last time....Brown Wanted Francis & Rose
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 4 of 6 « First‹ Previous 2  3  4  5  6 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
rvhoss
Posts: 24943
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/2/2004
Member: #777
Switzerland
6/15/2006  5:16 PM
so far, only 2 years. We have a settled core...we can now relax and enjoy the fruits of zeke's labor.

23 games was a fluke.

LB should stay and finish what he started, if not, I'm confident Zeke can.

We have a young core and a gifted coach (when he actually coaches).

i'd say that Zeke has done a great job in 2.5 years (last year's record not withstanding, which I place on brown)

maybe brown wanted to be out of contention so he could get the rooks playing time and see who was down?

maybe, but the 23 wins was all brown all the time, we should have won 40.

But wins were not important last year, I think someone quoted isiah saying that only a new york fan knows that you can rebuild in new york. And being over the cap, everyone knows we couldn't acquire the youth we have acquired in the last 2 drafts (and in one draft we only had a second round pick) and not add overpaid veterans.

if I'm not mistaken, each overpaid veteran expires in no more than 3 years (marbury's last year).

By then, we will be under the cap or contending for a title.

That's what I'm saying.

DO NOT FIRE LB. MAKE HIM STAY! if he doesn't like it, fax in his resume ala Riley.

Unless he is only in it for the money...and if that is the case, EFF BROWN.

Get me? I'm not on the fire brown chorus line, i like our team i love our youth, and love the direction we have taken in less than 3 years.

We stay the course, we are on our way.
all kool aid all the time.
AUTOADVERT
fishmike
Posts: 53902
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
6/15/2006  6:48 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Noticing a pattern yet?
a very clear pattern... good GMs may listen to a coach but ultimately make the best moves for the franchise. Something ours does neither of

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
rvhoss
Posts: 24943
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/2/2004
Member: #777
Switzerland
6/15/2006  7:03 PM
so far, to the impatient hipocritic (sp?) that screams rebuild than can sit through even 2 seasons of it.

We're going to turn it around in the next year and LB and Zeke are just jockying to be the one in place to take the credit for the turnaround.

That's all.
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by crzymdups:
Noticing a pattern yet?
a very clear pattern... good GMs may listen to a coach but ultimately make the best moves for the franchise. Something ours does neither of

all kool aid all the time.
crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
6/15/2006  8:44 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by crzymdups:
Noticing a pattern yet?
a very clear pattern... good GMs may listen to a coach but ultimately make the best moves for the franchise. Something ours does neither of

actually, the pattern was that the GM had nothing to do with stopping either transaction. In the Iverson case the trade was at the league office before Matt Geiger (the player, not Matt Geiger the GM in case that wasn't clear) exercised his no-trade clause. In the Detroit case, Bill Davidson stepped in.

How do you explain the constant roster turnover in Philly? Was that just Pat Croce not listening to his coach? How do you explain Brown constantly complaining about his roster? How do you explain the fact that Larry gave Zeke a list of players and Francis was on it?
¿ △ ?
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
6/15/2006  8:51 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by crzymdups:
Noticing a pattern yet?
a very clear pattern... good GMs may listen to a coach but ultimately make the best moves for the franchise. Something ours does neither of

actually, the pattern was that the GM had nothing to do with stopping either transaction. In the Iverson case the trade was at the league office before Matt Geiger (the player, not Matt Geiger the GM in case that wasn't clear) exercised his no-trade clause. In the Detroit case, Bill Davidson stepped in.

How do you explain the constant roster turnover in Philly? Was that just Pat Croce not listening to his coach? How do you explain Brown constantly complaining about his roster?
Those are all Isiah's fault--somehow
crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
6/15/2006  8:52 PM
I swear I saw Isiah throw that beer at Ron Artest...
¿ △ ?
rojasmas
Posts: 21207
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/25/2004
Member: #639
6/15/2006  10:39 PM
It is true that ultimately Isiah has final say on all trades as GM. But LB is not your typical coach in terms of say and power. Isiah knew as much when he hired him as did Dolan. So sure they let LB sit in on the war room sessions and heard him out. It just shows how LB wants it both ways though when Francis and Rose didn't work out in NY. Then he distances himself from trades he was in favor of and may have had a hand in brokering. You can be sure if Francis and Rose got the Knicks to the playoffs LB would have been in the front row taking bows.
LB has a lot of Parcells in him. Remember how Parcells turned on George Young? They couldn't work together at the end. Then Parcells goes to New England and can't get along with Bob Kraft when Kraft gave him the coach and GM job. It seems some guys won't be happy unless they have it all. So LB should save his $50 million he is going to steal here and save up. Maybe some day he can own his own team and answer to nobody.
We could be the Dallas Mavs of the East.
Pharzeone
Posts: 32183
Alba Posts: 14
Joined: 2/11/2005
Member: #871
6/15/2006  11:23 PM
I can't believe this point is still being argued. Its right up there with who really shot JFK and did man really land on the moon. The guy admits to wanting these guys, he was quoted as saying such. Thomas has never onced shown the need to get support for his trades. He has told the press straight forward what Brown's thoughts about the team but now in a possible negative move by both somehow Brown is exempt from blame by certain individuals.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
joec32033
Posts: 30631
Alba Posts: 37
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #583
USA
6/16/2006  12:01 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:

I can't believe this point is still being argued. Its right up there with who really shot JFK and did man really land on the moon. The guy admits to wanting these guys, he was quoted as saying such. Thomas has never onced shown the need to get support for his trades. He has told the press straight forward what Brown's thoughts about the team but now in a possible negative move by both somehow Brown is exempt from blame by certain individuals.

Before Brown was even here Zeke waned Jalen...he tried his whole tenure to get him here...there was a 3 way trade that was worked out between NY-Toronto-and another team....Toronto got Penny, NY got Jalen the other team got picks (I think Alvin WIlliams was involved in this deal)...It was reported on TNT some night during a game, but the trade never went through. I can't find a source but I will swear on a stack of bibles that a deal like this was rumoured well before Larry got here. It was talked about the Knicks wanted Jalen Rose when Toronto was shopping Carter too, before Larry got here. Point being, Jalen Rose was rumoured to be heading here well before Brown got here. Really desiring to trade for a player is very different from just endorsing a trade that is in place.
~You can't run from who you are.~
islesfan
Posts: 9999
Alba Posts: 37
Joined: 7/19/2004
Member: #712
6/16/2006  12:20 AM
Posted by bigbeast:

This is Brown and Thomas discussing Francis and Rose......

Quote:
"He's exactly what we need," Brown said before the game. "I think it's a no-brainer. I haven't seen a drop-off in his game. We don't have enough ball-handlers, guys that have experience back there."


Quote:
“This is a move that coach and I have been talking about and we are both in agreement. This is a (small forward) spot where he’s had a lot of people trying to fill that void. This is a player that Larry wanted. And I will continue to go out and try to get the players that he wants.”

Nuff said!

Right now LB is adhering to the juvenile gag order, he's going to Orlando when most head coaches don't and he's planning on going to Las Vegas for the summer leagues. Does that mean that he wants to or does it mean that he's towing the company line and doing what he's told?

Similar to being a part of that dog and pony show where he made those comments, he's doing what he's being told to do. Then he was told to support Isiah's trades no matter what he thought of the players. How much more obvious does it have to be to some of you? The fact that Isiah went out of his way to express just how much LB was in support of the trades should tell you something.

You either believe that:

Isiah made 2 trades for 2 players that fit the profile of every other player he's traded for as the GM of the Knicks and LB was told to support the moves.

or

LB was the mastermind behind acquiring 2 players that don't even come close to fitting the type of player that he likes and Isiah was just doing what LB wanted.

A basic understanding of the NBA and common sense would tell you that it was the former and not the latter.

Those who believe it's the latter must really be enjoying watching Isiah sink this franchise to depths that a toilet couldn't even imagine possible.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
6/16/2006  12:30 AM
the only reason LB is going to Orlando and Vegas is so the Knicks can't build a case to buy him out at less than his full contract. a basic understanding of the NBA and common sense would tell you that.

LB didn't mastermind anything, but he sure raved about Jalen when he first got here and he gave Isiah a list of players he would like to pursue in trades and Francis' name was on it.
¿ △ ?
BigSm00th
Posts: 24504
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/9/2001
Member: #178
USA
6/16/2006  12:31 AM
Haha Isles I love the passion, I really am surprised most people don't feel like us.

Isiah baby. Long Live Isiah! LB coaching summer league team, just bizarro world.

Its all a big catch-22, nothing makes any sense at all!
#Knickstaps
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
6/16/2006  12:37 AM
IF Isiah really wanted Jalen he could've gotten him at any time. He may have had some interest, but I think most of those rumors were floated by Toronto, who really wanted to rid themselves of Jalen. Do you really think isiah couldn't have found a way to get Jalen, who Toronto couldn't WAIT to get off their team?

This whole thing is really about Larry Brown, TOTALLY destroying the season and acting like an ASS. He KNEW this year was about developing the youth and even the older players knew this. AD was shocked that LB wanted him to start. Malik hadn't been a starter in years, not even in San Antonio. Neither was MO. None of these vets DESEVERED to start. None of them factor into the teams longterm plans. SO WHY would LB waste valuable PT on these guys. No matter what moves IT made the handling of the team from day to day is ALL ON LARRY. How the team comes to play each night. if he can't motivate them, which he's horrible at doing, then he blames it on having so many young guys. WEll it was those very young players who gutted it out and got the team back into games, only to have LB send in the lame vets to lose the game. I'm SICK of Larry. He knows he could've done a better job, but he didn't do a good job on purpose. There's no way to escape that conclusion when you look at all the strange things he did this year.
fishmike
Posts: 53902
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
6/16/2006  1:09 AM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by crzymdups:
Noticing a pattern yet?
a very clear pattern... good GMs may listen to a coach but ultimately make the best moves for the franchise. Something ours does neither of
actually, the pattern was that the GM had nothing to do with stopping either transaction. In the Iverson case the trade was at the league office before Matt Geiger (the player, not Matt Geiger the GM in case that wasn't clear) exercised his no-trade clause. In the Detroit case, Bill Davidson stepped in.

How do you explain the constant roster turnover in Philly? Was that just Pat Croce not listening to his coach? How do you explain Brown constantly complaining about his roster? How do you explain the fact that Larry gave Zeke a list of players and Francis was on it?
how do you explain only missing the playoffs 6 times in 23 years of coaching prior to the Knicks? Its hard I know. KNock him and his ways all you want. Like I have said 1000 times, everyone knew LB's quirks before he got here. Everyone knew he bugged his GMs every week for players and everyone knew in 23 years of coaching in the NBA he had 3 losing seasons.

I dont think Zeke need LB to pull the trigger on Steve Francis. He's exactly the kind of guy Isiah's traded for since he got here.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
Posts: 53902
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
6/16/2006  1:11 AM
Posted by nixluva:

IF Isiah really wanted Jalen he could've gotten him at any time. He may have had some interest, but I think most of those rumors were floated by Toronto, who really wanted to rid themselves of Jalen. Do you really think isiah couldn't have found a way to get Jalen, who Toronto couldn't WAIT to get off their team?

This whole thing is really about Larry Brown, TOTALLY destroying the season and acting like an ASS. He KNEW this year was about developing the youth and even the older players knew this. AD was shocked that LB wanted him to start. Malik hadn't been a starter in years, not even in San Antonio. Neither was MO. None of these vets DESEVERED to start. None of them factor into the teams longterm plans. SO WHY would LB waste valuable PT on these guys. No matter what moves IT made the handling of the team from day to day is ALL ON LARRY. How the team comes to play each night. if he can't motivate them, which he's horrible at doing, then he blames it on having so many young guys. WEll it was those very young players who gutted it out and got the team back into games, only to have LB send in the lame vets to lose the game. I'm SICK of Larry. He knows he could've done a better job, but he didn't do a good job on purpose. There's no way to escape that conclusion when you look at all the strange things he did this year.
thats cool and I agree. But while LB totally FUBARed this season ISiah has pretty much FUBARed this organization. The ironic thing is he desperately needs LB as he's one of the few guys that can probably set this thing right.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
6/16/2006  1:20 AM
Posted by fishmike:

how do you explain only missing the playoffs 6 times in 23 years of coaching prior to the Knicks? Its hard I know. KNock him and his ways all you want. Like I have said 1000 times, everyone knew LB's quirks before he got here. Everyone knew he bugged his GMs every week for players and everyone knew in 23 years of coaching in the NBA he had 3 losing seasons.

I dont think Zeke need LB to pull the trigger on Steve Francis. He's exactly the kind of guy Isiah's traded for since he got here.

how do you explain LB being fired everywhere he's been? he leaves a lot and always goes to a new team, it isn't like he's made the playoffs with the same group a bunch of times in a row. even his last year in Indiana his boys tuned him out and they missed the playoffs. same in Philly. they tuned him out in Detroit, there were just as many stories about players hating him as loving him there and they won it all together.

david stern refused to acknowledge his existence in athens because Brown did the same roster crap (aka complaining about guys he asked to be on the team - yeah, his supporters tried to claim he didn't sign off on the team then, too.). Stern's response - you have Duncan, Iverson, Odom, Wade, Lebron, Amare, Melo, Steph, Boozer, Jefferson, Marion and more, please shut the hell up and do your job, Larry. Of course, Larry couldn't do his job then just like he didn't do it in New York, he became obsessed with what he didn't have and it took a fantastic game from GASP! that cancer Stephon Marbury for USA to even get a medal under the greatest basketball coach of all time.


he's a prickly guy. he knows basketball, I've never said he didn't (though he doesn't seem to want to acknowledge the new rules), but he isn't right for every situation. and before you say it, yes, I've already said that hiring him is Isiah's fault. though, Larry, with his heart of gold and brain of steel didn't seem to have any problem taking the money.
¿ △ ?
rvhoss
Posts: 24943
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/2/2004
Member: #777
Switzerland
6/16/2006  1:46 AM
old age...everyone loses it eventually. maybe larry is done as a coach and last year was the first year everyone noticed.
all kool aid all the time.
BlueSeats
Posts: 27272
Alba Posts: 41
Joined: 11/6/2005
Member: #1024
6/16/2006  1:56 AM
Brown presses Dolan


BY FRANK ISOLA
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Larry Brown has requested a meeting with Garden chairman James Dolan to discuss promises made to him last summer about rebuilding the roster, promises that according to sources close to Brown, the coach feels the organization has reneged on.

The same sources revealed that Brown's goal isn't to undermine Knicks president Isiah Thomas or go over his boss' head. In fact, Brown wants Thomas present during the yet-to-be scheduled meeting with Dolan.

Since the end of the Knicks' season, Brown has been barred from attending the meetings with Dolan. Last month, Thomas informed Brown that it would be difficult to make all the changes the coach wants. During that same meeting, Thomas told Brown that he needed to do a better job coaching the players currently on the roster.

According to a source, Brown is confused over the sudden change in philosophy. When Dolan and Thomas were wining and dining Brown last summer, the Knicks' top basketball officials sat in the living room of Brown's posh East Hampton home and told him that they would find players Brown wanted to coach.

Dolan reiterated that promise months later when he accompanied the Knicks on a road trip to San Antonio and Memphis.
Rich
Posts: 27410
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 12/30/2003
Member: #511
USA
6/16/2006  3:22 AM
I wonder if those promises were part of the contractual terms. If not, they are unenforceable.
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
6/16/2006  4:21 AM
Posted by rvhoss:

old age...everyone loses it eventually. maybe larry is done as a coach and last year was the first year everyone noticed.
If someone asked him to coach and behave like a senile old man, I can think of nothing he'd do differently.

Page 4 of 6 « First‹ Previous 2  3  4  5  6 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Islesfan, Fish....for the last time....Brown Wanted Francis & Rose
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy