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wow, RV, Holfresh, you "guys" the Pistons arent better without Larry Brown
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holfresh
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6/3/2006  11:20 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by OldFan:
Posted by holfresh:


Ariza was one of the better defender on the Knicks...Larry didn't havfe a problem seeing him go...


Ariza was at Best an average defender - with little understanding of the game and a bad attitude. When he makes his first all defensive team - you can bring this up again.



Nonsense...the guy had a great attitude...He was the best defender on the Knicks..Looking at the PHX
Dallas series, you can never have enough 6'8" defenders on your team...Now you are resorting to trashing one of the better young kids in the league to make you coach look good...

Come on...


i liked ariza. but i also think we were very excited over guys like frank, ariza, and sweets b/c they were the first sniff of young players we had here in a long time. ariza still could become a good player but he was CRAZY raw. like others said, he didn't have a handle, he didn't have a jumpshot, and unless he dunked, he couldn't really finish. he could not have played for pheonix this year b/c they require skill players at each position. and with the addition of qyntel, and lee who we were trying to make a SF, ariza was the odd man out. you have NO idea if he had a great attitude or not. nobody does outside of the players and the coaches.

losing ariza doesn't kill us since we have qyntel and david. let's see if orlando re-signs him long term.



It does hurt us...Leee cannot defend the three position...He haven't defended it all year...This kid is a second round pick and didnt have to be paid much money and could be at the end of your bench until a lineup is sorted out...You can never give up on a defender who can guard the two or the three...

Now we don't know if Ariza is a good kid.....WOW...
AUTOADVERT
BlueSeats
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6/3/2006  11:23 PM
Posted by holfresh:


Ariza was one of the better defender on the Knicks...Larry didn't havfe a problem seeing him go...

Barnes and Woods are better defenders - though I will say Ariza was good at getting to the basket off of steals. I think that made his D look better than it was cause he was more adept at playing the passing lanes than playing his man.
simrud
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6/3/2006  11:24 PM
Its not about Ariza being a good kid or whatever. He was outplayed by other guys at SF position, and then went and complained about his role to the media. Personally I don't care if he did that or not, but a role player doing something like that is just silly. Clearly his early popularity in NY got to his head.

Either way, Ariza at best is going to be a solid defender, a good role player. I would not cry over loosing him that much. Its the fact that we traded for Francis in that trade that hurts.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
djsunyc
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6/3/2006  11:25 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by OldFan:
Posted by holfresh:


Ariza was one of the better defender on the Knicks...Larry didn't havfe a problem seeing him go...


Ariza was at Best an average defender - with little understanding of the game and a bad attitude. When he makes his first all defensive team - you can bring this up again.



Nonsense...the guy had a great attitude...He was the best defender on the Knicks..Looking at the PHX
Dallas series, you can never have enough 6'8" defenders on your team...Now you are resorting to trashing one of the better young kids in the league to make you coach look good...

Come on...


i liked ariza. but i also think we were very excited over guys like frank, ariza, and sweets b/c they were the first sniff of young players we had here in a long time. ariza still could become a good player but he was CRAZY raw. like others said, he didn't have a handle, he didn't have a jumpshot, and unless he dunked, he couldn't really finish. he could not have played for pheonix this year b/c they require skill players at each position. and with the addition of qyntel, and lee who we were trying to make a SF, ariza was the odd man out. you have NO idea if he had a great attitude or not. nobody does outside of the players and the coaches.

losing ariza doesn't kill us since we have qyntel and david. let's see if orlando re-signs him long term.



It does hurt us...Leee cannot defend the three position...He haven't defended it all year...This kid is a second round pick and didnt have to be paid much money and could be at the end of your bench until a lineup is sorted out...You can never give up on a defender who can guard the two or the three...

Now we don't know if Ariza is a good kid.....WOW...


you said ariza had a great attitude. all i said was we have no idea of knowing that this season. in that dime magazine video clip, he said he's looking for his "paper".

it came down to a #'s game. qyntel, ariza, lee. how many sf's do we have time to develop? isiah can dump 4 picks for eddy but it's blasphemous to move ariza, a late 2nd round pick who is VERY raw?

and at the end of the day, under isiah's transactions as GM, it says HE traded ariza, not lb. isiah can always say NO if he was that married to trevor.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 06-03-2006 11:30 PM]
holfresh
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6/3/2006  11:28 PM
Posted by simrud:

Its not about Ariza being a good kid or whatever. He was outplayed by other guys at SF position, and then went and complained about his role to the media. Personally I don't care if he did that or not, but a role player doing something like that is just silly. Clearly his early popularity in NY got to his head.

Either way, Ariza at best is going to be a solid defender, a good role player. I would not cry over loosing him that much. Its the fact that we traded for Francis in that trade that hurts.



If you are keeping up with the topic that most of you guys are harpning on and not straying to make that is only beknowns to you....Ariza and Hughs were young defenders that Larry didnt feel the need for....So the point of Larry prefering younger players who plays defense is mute...
holfresh
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6/3/2006  11:30 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by OldFan:
Posted by holfresh:


Ariza was one of the better defender on the Knicks...Larry didn't havfe a problem seeing him go...


Ariza was at Best an average defender - with little understanding of the game and a bad attitude. When he makes his first all defensive team - you can bring this up again.



Nonsense...the guy had a great attitude...He was the best defender on the Knicks..Looking at the PHX
Dallas series, you can never have enough 6'8" defenders on your team...Now you are resorting to trashing one of the better young kids in the league to make you coach look good...

Come on...


i liked ariza. but i also think we were very excited over guys like frank, ariza, and sweets b/c they were the first sniff of young players we had here in a long time. ariza still could become a good player but he was CRAZY raw. like others said, he didn't have a handle, he didn't have a jumpshot, and unless he dunked, he couldn't really finish. he could not have played for pheonix this year b/c they require skill players at each position. and with the addition of qyntel, and lee who we were trying to make a SF, ariza was the odd man out. you have NO idea if he had a great attitude or not. nobody does outside of the players and the coaches.

losing ariza doesn't kill us since we have qyntel and david. let's see if orlando re-signs him long term.



It does hurt us...Leee cannot defend the three position...He haven't defended it all year...This kid is a second round pick and didnt have to be paid much money and could be at the end of your bench until a lineup is sorted out...You can never give up on a defender who can guard the two or the three...

Now we don't know if Ariza is a good kid.....WOW...


you said ariza had a great attitude. all i said was we have no idea of knowing that this season.

it came down to a #'s game. qyntel, ariza, lee. how many sf's do we have time to develop? isiah can dump 4 picks for eddy but it's blasphemous to move ariza, a late 2nd round pick who is VERY raw?

and at the end of the day, under isiah's transactions as GM, it says HE traded ariza, not lb. isiah can always say NO if he was that married to trevor.



Right...
djsunyc
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6/3/2006  11:32 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by OldFan:
Posted by holfresh:


Ariza was one of the better defender on the Knicks...Larry didn't havfe a problem seeing him go...


Ariza was at Best an average defender - with little understanding of the game and a bad attitude. When he makes his first all defensive team - you can bring this up again.



Nonsense...the guy had a great attitude...He was the best defender on the Knicks..Looking at the PHX
Dallas series, you can never have enough 6'8" defenders on your team...Now you are resorting to trashing one of the better young kids in the league to make you coach look good...

Come on...


i liked ariza. but i also think we were very excited over guys like frank, ariza, and sweets b/c they were the first sniff of young players we had here in a long time. ariza still could become a good player but he was CRAZY raw. like others said, he didn't have a handle, he didn't have a jumpshot, and unless he dunked, he couldn't really finish. he could not have played for pheonix this year b/c they require skill players at each position. and with the addition of qyntel, and lee who we were trying to make a SF, ariza was the odd man out. you have NO idea if he had a great attitude or not. nobody does outside of the players and the coaches.

losing ariza doesn't kill us since we have qyntel and david. let's see if orlando re-signs him long term.



It does hurt us...Leee cannot defend the three position...He haven't defended it all year...This kid is a second round pick and didnt have to be paid much money and could be at the end of your bench until a lineup is sorted out...You can never give up on a defender who can guard the two or the three...

Now we don't know if Ariza is a good kid.....WOW...


you said ariza had a great attitude. all i said was we have no idea of knowing that this season.

it came down to a #'s game. qyntel, ariza, lee. how many sf's do we have time to develop? isiah can dump 4 picks for eddy but it's blasphemous to move ariza, a late 2nd round pick who is VERY raw?

and at the end of the day, under isiah's transactions as GM, it says HE traded ariza, not lb. isiah can always say NO if he was that married to trevor.



Right...


just an fyi, on the day of the francis trade, steve mills and isiah had a pre-scheduled q&a with season ticket holders. i was there and steve mills said, and i quote "we liked trevor but with qyntel woods here, we felt we could part ways with him."
holfresh
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6/3/2006  11:38 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by holfresh:


Ariza was one of the better defender on the Knicks...Larry didn't havfe a problem seeing him go...

Barnes and Woods are better defenders - though I will say Ariza was good at getting to the basket off of steals. I think that made his D look better than it was cause he was more adept at playing the passing lanes than playing his man.



I like the way you guys like to take the positives of a person and twist it into a negative...Ariza plays the passing lanes well so that covers up his lack on man defense...I laugh at stuff like tha...Like when most complain about Curry dunking too much...Amazing..

By the way, Ariza is a much better defender than Lee....Can't even compare...
McK1
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6/3/2006  11:47 PM
who complains about Curry dunking too much?

stop making up ****.

we complain about Curry trying to dunk everything. no matter how many times his fat ass picks up an offensive foul he still tries to barrel through a defender. Just stupid.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
BlueSeats
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6/4/2006  12:32 AM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by holfresh:


Ariza was one of the better defender on the Knicks...Larry didn't havfe a problem seeing him go...

Barnes and Woods are better defenders - though I will say Ariza was good at getting to the basket off of steals. I think that made his D look better than it was cause he was more adept at playing the passing lanes than playing his man.



I like the way you guys like to take the positives of a person and twist it into a negative...Ariza plays the passing lanes well so that covers up his lack on man defense...I laugh at stuff like tha...

No, the point is that his steals were flashy so they drew a disproportionate amount of attention to them. I have no problem with his steals or what he did with them, but he got burned on the perimeter and power over in the post, but every steal was a highlight.


By the way, Ariza is a much better defender than Lee....Can't even compare...

Well I'm going to ask you to. In what way is Ariza so markedly better than Lee?

And why even bring up Lee when I was talking about Woods?

Bobby
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6/4/2006  12:55 AM
no one ever said larry clown is not a great coach

what larry did reveal may be his love for theatrics.
"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
holfresh
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6/4/2006  1:18 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by holfresh:


Ariza was one of the better defender on the Knicks...Larry didn't havfe a problem seeing him go...

Barnes and Woods are better defenders - though I will say Ariza was good at getting to the basket off of steals. I think that made his D look better than it was cause he was more adept at playing the passing lanes than playing his man.



I like the way you guys like to take the positives of a person and twist it into a negative...Ariza plays the passing lanes well so that covers up his lack on man defense...I laugh at stuff like tha...

No, the point is that his steals were flashy so they drew a disproportionate amount of attention to them. I have no problem with his steals or what he did with them, but he got burned on the perimeter and power over in the post, but every steal was a highlight.


By the way, Ariza is a much better defender than Lee....Can't even compare...

Well I'm going to ask you to. In what way is Ariza so markedly better than Lee?

And why even bring up Lee when I was talking about Woods?



The reason Lee was brought into the picture was because a poster mention that Ariza was beat out at the small forward spot by Lee and Q2....Lee cannot defend the position and hasn't all year...
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6/4/2006  1:24 AM
Posted by holfresh:




The reason Lee was brought into the picture was because a poster mention that Ariza was beat out at the small forward spot by Lee and Q2....Lee cannot defend the position and hasn't all year...


You say Lee can't defend the position but how exactly did Ariza defend the position? As someone mentioned before, Ariza made highlight reel steals but was also burned in man to man defense time and time again. You need to just realize that your buddy Isiah made that trade and your living in denial until you do. Isiah likes making splashes with trades, he made that splash when he brought in Primadona #2 onto this team and traded Ariza for him.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
holfresh
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6/4/2006  1:24 AM


You know what this arguement is pointless...It's going nowhere..You guys are convinced that Larry wants young defenders and there is ntg I can say to or fact I can point to, just to have a few of you guys question the logic of your statements...Continue to believe that Larry is about getting younger even though Ratliff and KMart are on his radar...Dolan will put an end to this in a few days anyway...good riddance...
nyk4ever
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6/4/2006  1:31 AM
Posted by holfresh:



You know what this arguement is pointless...It's going nowhere..You guys are convinced that Larry wants young defenders and there is ntg I can say to or fact I can point to, just to have a few of you guys question the logic of your statements...Continue to believe that Larry is about getting younger even though Ratliff and KMart are on his radar...Dolan will put an end to this in a few days anyway...good riddance...

We will
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
BlueSeats
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6/4/2006  2:01 AM
Posted by holfresh:



You know what this arguement is pointless...It's going nowhere..You guys are convinced that Larry wants young defenders and there is ntg I can say to or fact I can point to, just to have a few of you guys question the logic of your statements...Continue to believe that Larry is about getting younger even though Ratliff and KMart are on his radar...Dolan will put an end to this in a few days anyway...good riddance...

You've got to question your own logic as well. you can't keep saying all Larry wants is broken defenders and then say his finger prints are all over the only tow trades since he;s been here: Rose and Francis.

And just what is it you and Isiah have against defense? Will you really be so upset if Ratliff backs up Curry instead of James? You really think he's gonna package Nate, Lee and Frye for Snow, Lynch and Ratliff?

What people seem to miss is that in '99 when Philly started clicking under Brown and they went to the conference semifinals these were their ages:

Iverson - 23
McKie - 26
Lynch -28
Snow -25
Ratliff - 25

That too old?
simrud
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6/4/2006  9:15 AM
Its ok, you see in order to be an IT supporter you need to reside in an alternate universe where the Knicks are getting better every year under his leadership. Logic is not in favor their, just rarara.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
TMS
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6/5/2006  9:24 AM
logic indeed... let's consider the present situation... LB's had success everywhere he's coached but here... Marbury's been a negative influence on every team he's ever played on, & they all got better after he left... yet LB's the one who's getting chased out of town & Marbury's the one making statements that he wants to die a NY Knick... is it any wonder why we're the laughing stock of the NBA? Logic? there is no logic in the bizarro world of Jim Dolan.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Killa4luv
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6/5/2006  10:25 AM
Posted by TMS:

logic indeed... let's consider the present situation... LB's had success everywhere he's coached but here... Marbury's been a negative influence on every team he's ever played on, & they all got better after he left... yet LB's the one who's getting chased out of town & Marbury's the one making statements that he wants to die a NY Knick... is it any wonder why we're the laughing stock of the NBA? Logic? there is no logic in the bizarro world of Jim Dolan.

All of that would make perfect sense to someone who hadn't actually watched the games. Once the actual game play comes into the fold, the analysis ought to change. I don't give a **** who did what elsewhere, Larry sucked ass as a coach this year, I could have done better.
TMS
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6/5/2006  10:50 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by TMS:

logic indeed... let's consider the present situation... LB's had success everywhere he's coached but here... Marbury's been a negative influence on every team he's ever played on, & they all got better after he left... yet LB's the one who's getting chased out of town & Marbury's the one making statements that he wants to die a NY Knick... is it any wonder why we're the laughing stock of the NBA? Logic? there is no logic in the bizarro world of Jim Dolan.

All of that would make perfect sense to someone who hadn't actually watched the games. Once the actual game play comes into the fold, the analysis ought to change. I don't give a **** who did what elsewhere, Larry sucked ass as a coach this year, I could have done better.


funny, i watched every game last year, as i'm sure plenty of others on this board who would agree w/what i just wrote have as well... i just got done saying LB's done a great job everywhere else BUT here... so in essence you agree w/me also... how do you defend Marbury's piss poor performance last year or the fact that he's ruined every situation he's ever been placed in w/his own arrogance & selfish style of play? funny you want to hold LB accountable for this past season's debacle, yet are willing to give Marbury a pass, when past history should dictate the exact opposite... but i guess that's how logic works in the bizarro world.

[Edited by - TMS on 06-05-2006 10:50 AM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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wow, RV, Holfresh, you "guys" the Pistons arent better without Larry Brown
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